4 ms·

What's the point? Why not just forward a message to XMPP, Telegram, WhatsApp or email? You know, to the app users actually use. Why make them install one more q

What's the point? Why not just forward a message to XMPP, Telegram, WhatsApp or email? You know, to the app users actually use. Why make them install one more quasi-messenger?

teko_ji 7y ago
Because they don't work directly with web services. Read the author's article: https://medium.com/@re_dmitriy/what-is-refl-me-67e6eb151f27 https://medium.com/@re_dmitriy/what-is-refl-me-67e6eb151f27
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
  > The application with the required frequency directly checks JSON on the web service side How charming.
  - teko_ji 7y ago
    What's wrong with that?
    - Leace 7y ago
      Not the poster but it may be useful to know that Andrew_nenakhov is a CEO of company that provides a Jabber messanger (Xabber).
      - teko_ji 7y ago
        I'm glad.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
        My occupation is not really relevant here, but yes, such service could be coded in maybe 60 minutes tops to accept a JSON and forward it to XMPP, and it would be way more efficient. Don't like XMPP? Ok, make a Telegram bot and receive notification with it.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
      Because it is the most inefficient approach possible. You either have potentially long delays before receiving a notification (if you poll service once an hour, average delay would be 30 minutes), or you do LOTS of polling, draining the battery/abusing the service. If you have 20 notifications / day and you check service every minute, in a day you'll make 24*60 poll requests, only 1,38% of which would yield some meaningful payload.
      - nicolas314 7y ago
        And yet, this is exactly how push notifications are implemented on mobile phones. You have the illusion to push a message from server to device while in fact you also push a message onto a queue that is polled at regular intervals by the mobile. No way around it, mobile devices don't have guaranteed connectivity as servers do.
        Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
        No. That's not how it works. From the Apple Developers Documentation [1], "On initial launch of your app on a user’s device, the system automatically establishes an accredited, encrypted, and persistent IP connection between your app and APNs." This persistent connection is, in fact, an XMPP session (likely, a modified one) [2]. Google's FCM too uses XMPP [3]. [1] https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/RemoteNotificationsPG/APNSOverview.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ne... [2] https://www.quora.com/What-technology-does-the-iOS-Apple-Push-Notification-Service-APNS-use-to-maintain-a-persistent-connection-with-each-device-to-receive-such-fast-push-notifications https://www.quora.com/What-technology-does-the-iOS-Apple-Pus... [3] https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/xmpp-server-ref https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/xmpp-server...
        icedchai 7y ago
        If you look at the format of APNS messages, they are nothing like XMPP. It seems very unlikely Apple uses it. That link you post does not confirm it.
- amelius 7y ago
  > Because they don't work directly with web services. Then why not make a relay, i.e. a server that forwards messages from a webclient to Whatsapp, email, etc.?
kissgyorgy 7y ago
Do you realize that's the opposite direction of this? In that case you SEND something to a chat app, but this app can RECEIVE data from a web service. Way simpler architecture.
- hk__2 7y ago
  > Do you realize that's the opposite direction of this? In that case you SEND something to a chat app, but this app can RECEIVE data from a web service. Way simpler architecture. Well, it receives data by hitting a specific endpoint with a specific protocol. It’s “simpler” in that it may be easier to implement, but you still have to modify your service to get that to work. And if you must modify your service, you may want to implement something that’s better supported and doesn’t require users to install (and configure) yet another app.
geoah 7y ago
This would be nice for websites and services users want to get push notifications from. I get that html5 notifications should be able to do this at some point but there is still merit in having another way of getting stuff to your phone and possibly desktop.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
  Thing is, it does not offer push notifications. It's very opposite of that - the app seems to just poll the service with regular intervals.
  - re_dmitriy 7y ago
    Yes, but the interval is set in JSON, which is convenient. Besides, there is a manual mode.

What's the point? Why not just forward a message to XMPP, Telegram, WhatsApp or email? You know, to the app users actually use. Why make them install one more quasi-messenger?

teko_ji 7y ago

Because they don't work directly with web services. Read the author's article: https://medium.com/@re_dmitriy/what-is-refl-me-67e6eb151f27 https://medium.com/@re_dmitriy/what-is-refl-me-67e6eb151f27

Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
> The application with the required frequency directly checks JSON on the web service side How charming.
- teko_ji 7y ago
  What's wrong with that?
  - Leace 7y ago
    Not the poster but it may be useful to know that Andrew_nenakhov is a CEO of company that provides a Jabber messanger (Xabber).
    - teko_ji 7y ago
      I'm glad.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
      My occupation is not really relevant here, but yes, such service could be coded in maybe 60 minutes tops to accept a JSON and forward it to XMPP, and it would be way more efficient. Don't like XMPP? Ok, make a Telegram bot and receive notification with it.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
    Because it is the most inefficient approach possible. You either have potentially long delays before receiving a notification (if you poll service once an hour, average delay would be 30 minutes), or you do LOTS of polling, draining the battery/abusing the service. If you have 20 notifications / day and you check service every minute, in a day you'll make 24*60 poll requests, only 1,38% of which would yield some meaningful payload.
    - nicolas314 7y ago
      And yet, this is exactly how push notifications are implemented on mobile phones. You have the illusion to push a message from server to device while in fact you also push a message onto a queue that is polled at regular intervals by the mobile. No way around it, mobile devices don't have guaranteed connectivity as servers do.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
        No. That's not how it works. From the Apple Developers Documentation [1], "On initial launch of your app on a user’s device, the system automatically establishes an accredited, encrypted, and persistent IP connection between your app and APNs." This persistent connection is, in fact, an XMPP session (likely, a modified one) [2]. Google's FCM too uses XMPP [3]. [1] https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/RemoteNotificationsPG/APNSOverview.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ne... [2] https://www.quora.com/What-technology-does-the-iOS-Apple-Push-Notification-Service-APNS-use-to-maintain-a-persistent-connection-with-each-device-to-receive-such-fast-push-notifications https://www.quora.com/What-technology-does-the-iOS-Apple-Pus... [3] https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/xmpp-server-ref https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging/xmpp-server...
        icedchai 7y ago
        If you look at the format of APNS messages, they are nothing like XMPP. It seems very unlikely Apple uses it. That link you post does not confirm it.
amelius 7y ago
> Because they don't work directly with web services. Then why not make a relay, i.e. a server that forwards messages from a webclient to Whatsapp, email, etc.?

kissgyorgy 7y ago

Do you realize that's the opposite direction of this? In that case you SEND something to a chat app, but this app can RECEIVE data from a web service. Way simpler architecture.

hk__2 7y ago
> Do you realize that's the opposite direction of this? In that case you SEND something to a chat app, but this app can RECEIVE data from a web service. Way simpler architecture. Well, it receives data by hitting a specific endpoint with a specific protocol. It’s “simpler” in that it may be easier to implement, but you still have to modify your service to get that to work. And if you must modify your service, you may want to implement something that’s better supported and doesn’t require users to install (and configure) yet another app.

geoah 7y ago

This would be nice for websites and services users want to get push notifications from. I get that html5 notifications should be able to do this at some point but there is still merit in having another way of getting stuff to your phone and possibly desktop.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
Thing is, it does not offer push notifications. It's very opposite of that - the app seems to just poll the service with regular intervals.
- re_dmitriy 7y ago
  Yes, but the interval is set in JSON, which is convenient. Besides, there is a manual mode.