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Why Garmin watches have become common in some segments of tactical aviation
- hestefisk 7y agoGood ad for Garmin. I prefer Suunto - greeter precision and less bells and whistles.
- frankbreetz 7y agoSuunto is Finnish, the military likes to use US companies.
- Ididntdothis 7y agoGarmin is Swiss now.
- jumbopapa 7y agoYes, but the HQ is US based.
- asdfman123 7y agoI got a Coros Pace new for $200 and it seems to do as much as the higher end Garmin watches for a few hundred less. You definitely pay a premium for the name.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- defterGoose 7y agoAs a diver, I really like the idea of the Garmin Descent being able to do surface GPS for tracking entry and exit points. I hope more dive watch manufacturers (Suunto is a big name) will add such functionality in the future.
- ekelsen 7y agoWhy didn't the pilots just descend when they encountered a failure with the environmental system?
- crooked-v 7y agoI would presume they did, but that it takes ice a lot longer to melt than to form on an aircraft, especially when considering how cold it can be even at breathable altitudes.
- jessaustin 7y agoThe canopy was thickly coated with ice. When you're blind you can't VFR. They couldn't use ice-obstructed instruments either, so a rapid descent would have endangered their plane and other aircraft. They did the right thing, suffering frostbite and cooperating with ground control to preserve life and property.
- ekelsen 7y agoI wasn't questioning whether they did the right thing. I wanted to understand why the obvious solution of descending (which is what commercial airliners have done successfully on numerous occasions when losing cabin pressurization) didn't work in this case.
- rconti 7y agoGiven Washington's geography, the freezing level on the west side of the mountains would have been far higher than on the east side. They might not have been able to descend below freezing until they crossed over the mountains.
- jessaustin 7y agoYes that's why I said "a rapid descent would have endangered their plane and other aircraft." I seriously doubt that any commercial airliner, with orders of magnitude more volume than this plane and insulation as well, has ever suffered an internal ice-over like the one described here.
- anjel 7y agoIs HN getting product placement rev? The better question not addressed in the associated "article" would be: are F-18 complete nav failures during flight so frequent as to compel issuing pilots $2k nav watches as backup?
- aidenn0 7y agoA E/A-18G has a unit cost of $68M, so if they bought one for every pilot of one, and it saved 1 plane, they are ahead just on cost of equipment.
- smacktoward 7y agoNot to mention the lifetime cost of training a crew of two up to U.S. Navy standards. Lose one E/A-18G, you lose two very expensive and hard-to-replace people along with it.
- smacktoward 7y ago> Is HN getting product placement rev? I submitted the story, and I'm certainly not.
- ISL 7y ago$2k backup instrumentation sounds inexpensive when weighed against the potential loss of personnel, logistics, flight-training hours, airframe, and mission-effectiveness.
- madengr 7y agoHow well do these LCDs operate in the cold?
- nradov 7y agoMost Garmin watches use transflective displays (different from LCD) and are generally rated to operate down to -20ºC.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y agotransflective screens are still LCDs.
- drdrey 7y agoThey're also being heated by the person wearing them
- goatinaboat 7y agoOnly barely; you would strap them around the outside of your flight suit on an extra long strap.
- dfox 7y agoNot only the transflective LCDs are still LCDs, but the transflective LCDs tend to have most pronounced effects of extreme temperature. On the other hand such effects mostly means that the display looks ugly and updates really slow, but is still somewhat readable.
- teddyh 7y ago> The fog inside the aircraft iced over the instrument panel, forcing the pilot and electronic warfare officer to use a Garmin watch to keep track of their heading and altitude […] The obvious question is: Why does the instrument panel have this failure mode, and is issuing Garmin watches really the best fix?
- scarejunba 7y agoThe instrument panel is intended to be protected by the ECS.
- ac29 7y agoThe real failure here was the "catastrophic failure of [the aircraft's] environmental control system". It nearly killed both of the crew.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Ididntdothis 7y agoGlad they are using stock watches. Usually when something goes through the usual procurement channels you will get a watch that took ten years to develop and costs 100k each.
- heelix 7y agoIn general, you can bring a watch but not a phone in some areas. An aviation friendly watch does a nice job of being visible (bonus visible in the dark) as a watch. Bonus as a timer. Extra bonus if it can give you zulu time with current time, as that is asked frequently.
- pdelbarba 7y agoIf it's going into a secure facility it doesn't matter if it's a phone, an iwatch or a garmin, if it has a radio and/or nonvolatile memory, it's not going in.
- durnygbur 7y agoStill, the most badass Garmin ad is the photo of GPSMAP mounted in the cockpit of the Russian SU-24, while it flies close to the NATO's airspace without transponder switched on.
- sv123 7y agoWhere can I see that picture?
- durnygbur 7y agoThere is link in the Reddit discussion [1], unfortunately the original Estonian article is not available - it's probably about the Baltic Air Policing. Also Google search returns some results. [1] - https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/51feuy/it_turns_out_that_there_is_a_simple_reason_why/ https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/51feuy/it_turns_out...
- stordoff 7y agoPossibly these two: https://twitter.com/garmin/status/669341873895563264 https://twitter.com/garmin/status/669341873895563264
- closeparen 7y agoWow! This reminds me a lot of that old "Americans spent millions of dollars developing a pen that could write in space, and the Russians used a pencil" story.
- mtmail 7y agoNASA or tax payers didn’t spend the money, Fisher did and the pens cost around $3 USD https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-write-stuff/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-write-stuff/
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
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- ecolonsmak 7y agoWhen the Strava heatmap issue came to light i recall seeing many tracks on military runways and wondered, "who's out there doing laps on the tarmac? So this makes sense now.
- briandear 7y agoNo. People in deployed areas often run on runways. The Garnin watches aren’t transmitting and they aren’t connected to Strava.
- nradov 7y agoAt least half of Garmin watches are connected to Strava. They do transmit through Bluetooth, ANT+, and/or WiFi.
- jniedrauer 7y agoIt's not a direct connection. You must log into your Garmin Connect account and configure it to push to Strava.
- resoluteteeth 7y agoApparently a lot of people in the military upload their runs to strava. If there are a bunch of people uploading the same route, it will show up on the strava heatmap. This has previously caused secret locations to be revealed[1], but they are probably being more careful about this now. 1: https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/28/politics/strava-military-bases-location/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/28/politics/strava-military-base...
- hawkesnest 7y agoAnother possibility was doing FOD walks. It would include pilots and maintenance crews as well.
- tantalor 7y agoIsn't this a huge OpSec failure? To bring third-party gps tracking devices on your fighter jets?
- throwanem 7y agoThey're receivers, not transmitters.
- hoseja 7y agoThey're "smart".
- tantalor 7y agoLet's check that: https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/608613#specs https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/608613#specs Ok, says they have Bluetooth and WiFi. I'm not sure I would trust the firmware not to be vulnerable to 0-day data exfiltration once the device is back in base.
- ertemplin 7y agoYeah, but who is going to hijack your bluetooth or wifi connection while flying at 1,200 knots. It's just not feasible.
- gamblor956 7y agoIt is, if the Garmins are connected to public Garmin profiles or to third-party apps like Strava. Otherwise, they function as GPS-signal receivers and only record data to the watch. (If connected to a phone or computer via the Garmin app/program, then Garmin watches will sync the watch data to the phone/computer.)
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- billziss 7y agoI am no fighter pilot, but I (used to) fly airplanes, floatplanes and helicopters. A watch with a 12 day battery life makes little sense to me as I find it too easy to forget to charge it. Even if you put it on a checklist, it may be too late to charge it when you are about to go. For my flights I mostly use an automatic Glycine 24hr watch with a second dial set on UTC for "Zulu" time. If the watch is running at the beginning of the flight (confirmed with a checklist) it will continue running during the flight. I have to admit that this Garmin MARQ looks lovely though :)
- spapas82 7y agoHello could you please explain what's the added value of the 24h face? I looked at some pics and feels too crumped; however I understand that it's preferred among pilots. Thank you
- billziss 7y agoZulu time where I mostly fly is 8 hours off local time. If the watch is a regular 12 hour watch you have to do a mental calculation for time and as a pilot you learn that the less mental calculations the better, when a lot of things are happening in the cockpit. It is true that the 24 hour display is cramped. But I got used to it after 15 years with this watch. I cannot find the exact version that I have online, but this one is the closest: https://www.jomashop.com/media/catalog/product/g/l/glycine-airman-blue-dial-automatic-men_s-gmt-watch-3930.38.lbk8.jpg https://www.jomashop.com/media/catalog/product/g/l/glycine-a... I have mine on a nato strap.
- bobloblaw45 7y agoInteresting call sign that pilot has in the picture.
- salmonellaeater 7y agoConsumer GPS devices have a speed and altitude limit [1], which I initially thought should preclude using it in a fighter jet, but I was wrong (only something extreme like an SR-71 would hit this limit): > ...a limit placed on GPS tracking devices that disables tracking when the device calculates that it is moving faster than 1,000 knots (1,900 km/h; 1,200 mph) at an altitude higher than 18,000 m (59,000 ft).[3] This was intended to prevent the use of GPS in intercontinental ballistic missile-like applications. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Multilateral_Export_Controls#Legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinating_Committee_for_Mul...
- LeoPanthera 7y agoThat makes sense - the limits are designed to stop you guiding a missile with one, not guiding a jet plane.
- tejtm 7y agoUnfortunately the safeguards can also kick in with high altitude balloons which have no speed beyond ambient wind.
- someguydave 7y agoI doubt they hit the speed limit - but balloons can go up to 100,000 feet which is above the altitude limit.
- an_account 7y agoThe GPS has to shut off when going faster than a certain speed or higher than a certain altitude. IIRC the GPS maker can decided which they want to follow, and most chose to stop working at high altitude. It’s possible but more difficult to find a GPS that will work with high altitude balloons.
- cstejerean 7y agoFor everyone else that notices that COCOM limits require both speed and altitude, the problem is that some manufacturers have implemented these safeguards with an OR rather than an AND. So it’s possible to get tripped up by either limit in practice (unless you know for sure your specific device implements this as an and).
- nyolfen 7y agohttp://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- ImaCake 7y agoAbsolutely, but as a frequent visitor on this site, this is my first time becoming aware of Garmin's being used this way. I think it's broadly relevant even if it is PR.
- exabrial 7y agoLove my Garmin. I charge it... every Monday, or so.
- brianwawok 7y agoYup! If I’m going to do a 15 mile run on Saturday or something crazy I will top it off before, but’s it’s pretty good at battery life. Too reason I don’t have an Apple Watch.
- js2 7y agoSubmitted at the time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16530839 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16530839
- rawoke083600 7y agoWay back in the day, I was curious if my TomTom (like generation 1 or 2) would work on a normal flight. Then one day when travel from Durban To Johannesburg (South Africa) I took it out of my bag and switched it on and was amazed to see we were travelling over 700km/h