5 ms·

Can somebody please help me understand what is cool about this ? Seems like a web interface that can use bluetooth. Was this previously impossible or something

Can somebody please help me understand what is cool about this ? Seems like a web interface that can use bluetooth. Was this previously impossible or something ?

onion2k 7y ago
Seems like a web interface that can use bluetooth. That's precisely what it is. Accessing bluetooth devices from a progressive web app affords a lot of interesting new functionality for web app developers. Was this previously impossible or something ? Web bluetooth has been around since Chrome 42 behind a flag, but it's only recently appeared in other browsers so maybe now is the time to start taking an interest.
- xxs 7y ago
  look even at the examples: you get endianness and protocol parsing/composition, coupled with "string" based enumerations + promises - no special error handling, etc. It feels such a mess to program with.
- Nursie 7y ago
  > Accessing bluetooth devices from a progressive web app ... Does anyone actually use progressive web apps?
  - dspillett 7y ago
    > Does anyone actually use progressive web apps? Yes, is the correct but perhaps overly terse answer. A more useful answer depends on exactly what you mean by PWA, as there are several common interpretations of the term.
    - Nursie 7y ago
      The "Embed this on your home screen" aspect is what I was interested in, I guess. Personally I'm not really interested in routinely circumventing my mobile platform's app store, nor do I really want more clutter. Plus it seems like a lot of the sites that have the capability are just trying to push their brand in the same sort of way they did by having their own apps a few years ago - newspapers and other information sources which are just fine in the browser.
      - dspillett 7y ago
        > Embed this on your home screen That you can do manually with any web page (that isn't badly designed) as it is essentially just an icon that opens the page when selected. The only real difference IIRC is that it looks like a separate app (in your task list etc.) instead of being a browser tab and having less browser chrome. Another common use for the features that come under the PWA banner are local storage and running options, which reduce transfers to/from the server(a) and allow offline working. There are a few apps I use that work this way and you don't notice that they are anything other than a simple web app until you find yourself properly disconnected for a time and they still work.
        Nursie 7y ago
        In the first instance, I don't have site bookmarks on my home screen, my browser can store those just fine. The second instance sounds like something that should be an actual app, installed from a trusted source, if it has access to storage and other device features. Particularly if it can run in the background, issue notifications etc etc.
        dspillett 7y ago
        > I don't have site bookmarks on my home screen But many people do. I have a couple of shortcuts to common pages on my phone's home screen (well, a folder there on) just as I have shortcuts to certain files that I regularly interact with on the device instead of going to the app and manually opening them from there. > sounds like something that should be an actual app, installed from a trusted source Why, when it isn't doing anything the web app can do anyway. LocalStorage isn't a PWA-only feature, nor is notifications, and both have a least some gates to access (LocalStorage should limit the amount stored, prompting the user as a soft quota is reached as well as having a hard quota, and sandbox sites from each other, notifications asking for permission before they are enabled). I assume other features like bluetooth access are similarly gated, so there is no less protection than found in app store apps. Why make me install an app on my phone as well as using the site on desktop/laptop, and make the developers write both, when the website based application can perform both roles? There are sensitive permissions that I wouldn't want to grant a PWA (access to my contacts for instance, access to other apps files) of course, not being able to be globally disabled if found to be malicious as is possible with an app-store based install makes that more dangerous. But with careful control PWAs can be very useful without being any more problematical than any other web app.
  - pauly 7y ago
    I definitely do for something I want to write myself, that behaves like an app, but has zero entry barrier. I am adding PWA best practices to everything I do now "just in case", still not quite sure if it's going anywhere, maybe it is only me. I wanted a "packing reminder" on my phone so I made https://paulypopex.gitlab.io/holiday-reminder/# https://paulypopex.gitlab.io/holiday-reminder/# and it works for me.
  - neoeldex 7y ago
    Do you use any of these in a browser: facebook, instagram, youtube, gmail, whatsapp, github, gitlab?
    - Nursie 7y ago
      On my mobile device, yes, facebook. Specifically because I won't allow fb apps to install themselves on any of my devices. On my laptop, yes I use some of the others. Mostly gmail and github, of those.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
The_rationalist 7y ago
Firefox does not support web Bluetooth
- pmlnr 7y ago
  Nothing should support web bluetooth.
- peter_retief 7y ago
  If I remember correctly you need to enable it in the experimental flags? chrome://flags/
- pjmlp 7y ago
  With the Chromification of the Web that slowly matters less and less, sadly.
  - sitkack 7y ago
    We are within a stone's throw away from America Online or Prodigy, but almost entirely self imposed. It is very interesting how monocultures and winner take all systemics play out.
- greggman2 7y ago
  I wonder how it fits/doesn't fit into their WebThings initiative. https://iot.mozilla.org/ https://iot.mozilla.org/
- reportgunner 7y ago
  I think that's a good thing.
s_m_t 7y ago
This is huge imo. It is exactly a web interface that can use bluetooth. One of the major problems with the BLE protocol is that there is really no standard client for a user to interact with devices. To access on the computer you'd need to download a program, on mobile you would need an app... just to have a meaningful user interface to a BLE device. Its like if you needed to download a new web browser for every website you visit, absolutely ridiculous.
- xxs 7y ago
  > To access on the computer you'd need to download a program, on mobile you would need an app You say it like it's a bad thing. >Its like if you needed to download a new web browser for every website you visit, absolutely ridiculous. I really do hope websites do not try and enumerate Bluetooth on their right own. I know I'd never enable access to Bluetooth to a browser.
  - lapinot 7y ago
    > You say it like it's a bad thing. Actually the web is an OS: it has api for gui, for persistent data, for networking, for all kind of periphericals (gpu, gps, bluetooth) ... The problem you're raising (which i agree with) is that we already have an OS and we'd like to use that one.
  - clinta 7y ago
    Looking at the current chrome documentation it does not appear that web BLE offers the ability to enumerate. The browser pops up a dialog allowing the user to grant access to a specific device. I think this is actually superior to the security offered by mobile apps on android, which can enumerate bluetooth devices as soon as they have bluetooth permission.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- reportgunner 7y ago
  > To access on the computer you'd need to download a program, on mobile you would need an app Are you suggesting that I don't need to download anything to view a website ? I beg to differ. If you check the article, namely the photo of the phone you can see there's a browser opened from localhost, so something must have been downloaded on the phone.

Can somebody please help me understand what is cool about this ? Seems like a web interface that can use bluetooth. Was this previously impossible or something ?

onion2k 7y ago

Seems like a web interface that can use bluetooth. That's precisely what it is. Accessing bluetooth devices from a progressive web app affords a lot of interesting new functionality for web app developers. Was this previously impossible or something ? Web bluetooth has been around since Chrome 42 behind a flag, but it's only recently appeared in other browsers so maybe now is the time to start taking an interest.

xxs 7y ago
look even at the examples: you get endianness and protocol parsing/composition, coupled with "string" based enumerations + promises - no special error handling, etc. It feels such a mess to program with.
Nursie 7y ago
> Accessing bluetooth devices from a progressive web app ... Does anyone actually use progressive web apps?
- dspillett 7y ago
  > Does anyone actually use progressive web apps? Yes, is the correct but perhaps overly terse answer. A more useful answer depends on exactly what you mean by PWA, as there are several common interpretations of the term.
  - Nursie 7y ago
    The "Embed this on your home screen" aspect is what I was interested in, I guess. Personally I'm not really interested in routinely circumventing my mobile platform's app store, nor do I really want more clutter. Plus it seems like a lot of the sites that have the capability are just trying to push their brand in the same sort of way they did by having their own apps a few years ago - newspapers and other information sources which are just fine in the browser.
    - dspillett 7y ago
      > Embed this on your home screen That you can do manually with any web page (that isn't badly designed) as it is essentially just an icon that opens the page when selected. The only real difference IIRC is that it looks like a separate app (in your task list etc.) instead of being a browser tab and having less browser chrome. Another common use for the features that come under the PWA banner are local storage and running options, which reduce transfers to/from the server(a) and allow offline working. There are a few apps I use that work this way and you don't notice that they are anything other than a simple web app until you find yourself properly disconnected for a time and they still work.
      - Nursie 7y ago
        In the first instance, I don't have site bookmarks on my home screen, my browser can store those just fine. The second instance sounds like something that should be an actual app, installed from a trusted source, if it has access to storage and other device features. Particularly if it can run in the background, issue notifications etc etc.
        dspillett 7y ago
        > I don't have site bookmarks on my home screen But many people do. I have a couple of shortcuts to common pages on my phone's home screen (well, a folder there on) just as I have shortcuts to certain files that I regularly interact with on the device instead of going to the app and manually opening them from there. > sounds like something that should be an actual app, installed from a trusted source Why, when it isn't doing anything the web app can do anyway. LocalStorage isn't a PWA-only feature, nor is notifications, and both have a least some gates to access (LocalStorage should limit the amount stored, prompting the user as a soft quota is reached as well as having a hard quota, and sandbox sites from each other, notifications asking for permission before they are enabled). I assume other features like bluetooth access are similarly gated, so there is no less protection than found in app store apps. Why make me install an app on my phone as well as using the site on desktop/laptop, and make the developers write both, when the website based application can perform both roles? There are sensitive permissions that I wouldn't want to grant a PWA (access to my contacts for instance, access to other apps files) of course, not being able to be globally disabled if found to be malicious as is possible with an app-store based install makes that more dangerous. But with careful control PWAs can be very useful without being any more problematical than any other web app.
- pauly 7y ago
  I definitely do for something I want to write myself, that behaves like an app, but has zero entry barrier. I am adding PWA best practices to everything I do now "just in case", still not quite sure if it's going anywhere, maybe it is only me. I wanted a "packing reminder" on my phone so I made https://paulypopex.gitlab.io/holiday-reminder/# https://paulypopex.gitlab.io/holiday-reminder/# and it works for me.
- neoeldex 7y ago
  Do you use any of these in a browser: facebook, instagram, youtube, gmail, whatsapp, github, gitlab?
  - Nursie 7y ago
    On my mobile device, yes, facebook. Specifically because I won't allow fb apps to install themselves on any of my devices. On my laptop, yes I use some of the others. Mostly gmail and github, of those.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

The_rationalist 7y ago

Firefox does not support web Bluetooth

pmlnr 7y ago
Nothing should support web bluetooth.
peter_retief 7y ago
If I remember correctly you need to enable it in the experimental flags? chrome://flags/
pjmlp 7y ago
With the Chromification of the Web that slowly matters less and less, sadly.
- sitkack 7y ago
  We are within a stone's throw away from America Online or Prodigy, but almost entirely self imposed. It is very interesting how monocultures and winner take all systemics play out.
greggman2 7y ago
I wonder how it fits/doesn't fit into their WebThings initiative. https://iot.mozilla.org/ https://iot.mozilla.org/
reportgunner 7y ago
I think that's a good thing.

s_m_t 7y ago

This is huge imo. It is exactly a web interface that can use bluetooth. One of the major problems with the BLE protocol is that there is really no standard client for a user to interact with devices. To access on the computer you'd need to download a program, on mobile you would need an app... just to have a meaningful user interface to a BLE device. Its like if you needed to download a new web browser for every website you visit, absolutely ridiculous.

xxs 7y ago
> To access on the computer you'd need to download a program, on mobile you would need an app You say it like it's a bad thing. >Its like if you needed to download a new web browser for every website you visit, absolutely ridiculous. I really do hope websites do not try and enumerate Bluetooth on their right own. I know I'd never enable access to Bluetooth to a browser.
- lapinot 7y ago
  > You say it like it's a bad thing. Actually the web is an OS: it has api for gui, for persistent data, for networking, for all kind of periphericals (gpu, gps, bluetooth) ... The problem you're raising (which i agree with) is that we already have an OS and we'd like to use that one.
- clinta 7y ago
  Looking at the current chrome documentation it does not appear that web BLE offers the ability to enumerate. The browser pops up a dialog allowing the user to grant access to a specific device. I think this is actually superior to the security offered by mobile apps on android, which can enumerate bluetooth devices as soon as they have bluetooth permission.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
reportgunner 7y ago
> To access on the computer you'd need to download a program, on mobile you would need an app Are you suggesting that I don't need to download anything to view a website ? I beg to differ. If you check the article, namely the photo of the phone you can see there's a browser opened from localhost, so something must have been downloaded on the phone.