5 ms·

I wonder why hiring isn't done this way more often? Specifically the "friends-of-employees" approach.

by edanm 16y ago

StavrosK 16y ago
I'm guessing it's because, in sivers' case, he didn't really need extremely skilled labour? Or maybe people just try to overoptimise when "good enough" will do very well.
kleinsch 16y ago
Everywhere I've worked, the first step to hiring a new developer is to ask all the good developers if they have any friends that are also good and interested in work.
_delirium 16y ago
It's relatively common for tech companies to try to encourage employees to recommend people, with a ~$500-$2k bonus if you refer a friend who ends up getting hired. Not sure if it's actively taken into account on the hiring-decision side, though, or if it's just seen as a way of getting in more applicants.
- mnutt 16y ago
  The last company I worked for (hot startup in NYC) was offering a $10k bonus for referring a friend. Or at least that was what it was up to when I left, for all I know it could be higher now. It still beats the cost of a headhunter.
- patrickk 16y ago
  Not just tech companies. Investment banks also. Probably many other industries too. As the cliché goes, "Imitation Is The Best Form Of Flattery".
- bartonfink 16y ago
  From my perspective, most referral bonuses aren't big enough to make it worth my while to try to get a friend in the door. When I know that my referral saves them $20k on a headhunter fee, getting < 10% of that rubs me the same way a nickel-an-hour raise would.
  - acangiano 16y ago
    Not only that, but some companies' HR departments are best buddies with the headhunters and agencies. As a result, their candidates tend to be preferred (intentionally or not) over the "refer a friend" candidates you refer as an employee. I know it's a serious accusation, but several years ago I had statistical evidence that this was happening at a certain company where I referred more than 20 highly qualified candidates at a time when they were struggling to fill positions.
    - lsc 16y ago
      >some companies' HR departments are best buddies with the headhunters and agencies. Considering the average quality of the candidates brought in by the agencies, this is the only rational explanation I can think of as to why companies still use agencies.
  - eftpotrm 16y ago
    Then I'm not sure you're the person to be working as a startup employee.
    - bartonfink 16y ago
      Fair point, and I'd agree. My career goals aren't particularly amenable to most startups, and with a child I have little interest in the risk/reward profile of startups. Further, I have little interest in mixing my personal and professional relationships - that seems like a needless complication for little gain. That said, my point still stands. $2000 isn't worth it for me to do my company's dirty work and knowingly save them $18000 in the process.
    - lsc 16y ago
      Really? I'd expect a startup employee to be more interested in, ah, 'extracting value' than a regular employee. I mean, you've gotta have /some/ reward for all that risk. (I mean, it's different if it's a company that wouldn't have paid a headhunter anyhow; but I think the grandparent was objecting to the difference between what you are paying the headhunter and what you are paying the employee, more than the absolute amount you are paying.)
- edanm 16y ago
  I was talking about the second part of the equation, i.e. taking it into account on the hiring-decision side. I know refer-a-friend schemes are common, but I think most companies (including Google?) don't give any weight to the fact that someone referred a friend. In fact, considering the incentive structure (you get lots of money to bring in friends), companies shouldn't take into account recommendations. It would have to be done differently in order for the recommendations to actually mean something, which I'm guessing is more common in startups than large companies.
tastybites 16y ago
It's done in nearly every business too small to hire a head hunting firm or spend 100 man hours conducting interviews. Contrary to popular belief, most companies, even tech companies, are not google and do not need geniuses and PhD's to write their web apps or stock their shelves. Most of the time someone skilled who needs money to pay bills will show up and do a job pretty well. This is an old and not-very interesting concept and doesn't lead to blog hits though.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  Google still prefers to hire through employee referrals. I guess they figure that friends of geniuses and PhDs tend to themselves be geniuses and PhDs...
j_baker 16y ago
The biggest problem you have to watch out for is that good friends aren't always good coworkers. And the fact that someone is a good friend can cause people to purposely overlook things that might make them a bad fit. So that said, I personally would be hesitant to hire someone solely because they're someone else's friend.
michaelbuckbee 16y ago
I'd say this is actively encouraged pretty much everywhere. Many places even have bonuses along the lines of: "Refer a friend and get a $1000".
ajju 16y ago
There is a startup that is doing this www.topprospect.com

I wonder why hiring isn't done this way more often? Specifically the "friends-of-employees" approach.

by edanm 16y ago

I wonder why hiring isn't done this way more often? Specifically the "friends-of-employees" approach.

I'm guessing it's because, in sivers' case, he didn't really need extremely skilled labour? Or maybe people just try to overoptimise when "good enough" will do very well.

kleinsch 16y ago

Everywhere I've worked, the first step to hiring a new developer is to ask all the good developers if they have any friends that are also good and interested in work.

_delirium 16y ago

It's relatively common for tech companies to try to encourage employees to recommend people, with a ~$500-$2k bonus if you refer a friend who ends up getting hired. Not sure if it's actively taken into account on the hiring-decision side, though, or if it's just seen as a way of getting in more applicants.

mnutt 16y ago
The last company I worked for (hot startup in NYC) was offering a $10k bonus for referring a friend. Or at least that was what it was up to when I left, for all I know it could be higher now. It still beats the cost of a headhunter.
patrickk 16y ago
Not just tech companies. Investment banks also. Probably many other industries too. As the cliché goes, "Imitation Is The Best Form Of Flattery".
bartonfink 16y ago
From my perspective, most referral bonuses aren't big enough to make it worth my while to try to get a friend in the door. When I know that my referral saves them $20k on a headhunter fee, getting < 10% of that rubs me the same way a nickel-an-hour raise would.
- acangiano 16y ago
  Not only that, but some companies' HR departments are best buddies with the headhunters and agencies. As a result, their candidates tend to be preferred (intentionally or not) over the "refer a friend" candidates you refer as an employee. I know it's a serious accusation, but several years ago I had statistical evidence that this was happening at a certain company where I referred more than 20 highly qualified candidates at a time when they were struggling to fill positions.
  - lsc 16y ago
    >some companies' HR departments are best buddies with the headhunters and agencies. Considering the average quality of the candidates brought in by the agencies, this is the only rational explanation I can think of as to why companies still use agencies.
- eftpotrm 16y ago
  Then I'm not sure you're the person to be working as a startup employee.
  - bartonfink 16y ago
    Fair point, and I'd agree. My career goals aren't particularly amenable to most startups, and with a child I have little interest in the risk/reward profile of startups. Further, I have little interest in mixing my personal and professional relationships - that seems like a needless complication for little gain. That said, my point still stands. $2000 isn't worth it for me to do my company's dirty work and knowingly save them $18000 in the process.
  - lsc 16y ago
    Really? I'd expect a startup employee to be more interested in, ah, 'extracting value' than a regular employee. I mean, you've gotta have /some/ reward for all that risk. (I mean, it's different if it's a company that wouldn't have paid a headhunter anyhow; but I think the grandparent was objecting to the difference between what you are paying the headhunter and what you are paying the employee, more than the absolute amount you are paying.)
edanm 16y ago
I was talking about the second part of the equation, i.e. taking it into account on the hiring-decision side. I know refer-a-friend schemes are common, but I think most companies (including Google?) don't give any weight to the fact that someone referred a friend. In fact, considering the incentive structure (you get lots of money to bring in friends), companies shouldn't take into account recommendations. It would have to be done differently in order for the recommendations to actually mean something, which I'm guessing is more common in startups than large companies.

tastybites 16y ago

It's done in nearly every business too small to hire a head hunting firm or spend 100 man hours conducting interviews. Contrary to popular belief, most companies, even tech companies, are not google and do not need geniuses and PhD's to write their web apps or stock their shelves. Most of the time someone skilled who needs money to pay bills will show up and do a job pretty well. This is an old and not-very interesting concept and doesn't lead to blog hits though.

nostrademons 16y ago
Google still prefers to hire through employee referrals. I guess they figure that friends of geniuses and PhDs tend to themselves be geniuses and PhDs...

j_baker 16y ago

The biggest problem you have to watch out for is that good friends aren't always good coworkers. And the fact that someone is a good friend can cause people to purposely overlook things that might make them a bad fit. So that said, I personally would be hesitant to hire someone solely because they're someone else's friend.

michaelbuckbee 16y ago

I'd say this is actively encouraged pretty much everywhere. Many places even have bonuses along the lines of: "Refer a friend and get a $1000".

ajju 16y ago

There is a startup that is doing this www.topprospect.com