3 ms·

What you mean by "west"? Latin America (where I live), all the Africa and some poor european countries are "west" and those are not very good examples of prosp

by nohope 7y ago

What you mean by "west"? Latin America (where I live), all the Africa and some poor european countries are "west" and those are not very good examples of prosperity. Even in "western" rich countries there is a lot of growing unequality. The capitalism is falling by itself.

Double_a_92 7y ago
It's a relationship like this: All wealthy countries are capitalist. Some capitalist countries are wealthy.
- ClumsyPilot 7y ago
  I am not sure that's accurate. UAE and Saudi are monarchies. Singapore is very socialist, if you look at their housing policy, it's entirely run by the state. They even allocate apartment to ensure that different ethnic groups mix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjPgNBNeLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjPgNBNeLU Also, I would not consider China poor today, and certainly even less so in the future.
  - devsag 7y ago
    Singapore has 0% GDP growth and even need a loan from IMF to invest in infrastructure that's laughable for a developed country.
    - ClumsyPilot 7y ago
      Both true, both completely irrelevant. Singapore is ranked 3rd in the world by PPP, at $100k The United States is ranked 10th with at $62k I can come with with hundreds of criteria by which US is laughable, take foreign debt for example, or number of people dying from preventable diseases.
  - sol_remmy2 7y ago
    > UAE and Saudi are monarchies This is not as hot of a take as you think. Many reactionaries believe that a monarchy under a good monarch is the ideal government system - much better than a democracy where uninformed voters make so many decisions
  - zip1234 7y ago
    China has a capitalist market economy. They do have some degree of government ownership of companies and the government has asserted that they are not capitalist as the communist party is in charge and they have to maintain face. However, in practice, they are on the capitalist spectrum. Also, monarchies can be capitalist. Capitalism just means the state doesn't own everything and collect all the profits.
sol_remmy2 7y ago
> Latin America (where I live) is "west" and those are not very good examples of prosperity. Chile is a good example of a "western" latin american country. Brazil/Argentina are bad examples. Brazil for instance, has state-ownership of its entire oil industry - pretty textbook socialism.
- ClumsyPilot 7y ago
  US has state ownership of it's entire primary education - pretty textbook socialism. Or maybe the divide isn't clear cut, perhaps?
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  > pretty textbook socialism Yes, like that socialist disaster that is Finland. (Besides, Brazil does not have state ownership of its entire oil industry.)
- nohope 7y ago
  As if the lack of prosperity in these countries were because supposed lack of capitalism... Chile? Just look how people are satisfied with their system nowadays... Behind seeming positive macroeconomic numbers, there is a very unequal society. Chile is the most unequal society among all OECD members. The riots that happen there right now are not against any socialism, but against the liberal fail. They followed strict liberal rules since Pinochet dictatorship, and that is what it became.

by nohope 7y ago

Double_a_92 7y ago

It's a relationship like this: All wealthy countries are capitalist. Some capitalist countries are wealthy.

ClumsyPilot 7y ago
I am not sure that's accurate. UAE and Saudi are monarchies. Singapore is very socialist, if you look at their housing policy, it's entirely run by the state. They even allocate apartment to ensure that different ethnic groups mix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjPgNBNeLU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cjPgNBNeLU Also, I would not consider China poor today, and certainly even less so in the future.
- devsag 7y ago
  Singapore has 0% GDP growth and even need a loan from IMF to invest in infrastructure that's laughable for a developed country.
  - ClumsyPilot 7y ago
    Both true, both completely irrelevant. Singapore is ranked 3rd in the world by PPP, at $100k The United States is ranked 10th with at $62k I can come with with hundreds of criteria by which US is laughable, take foreign debt for example, or number of people dying from preventable diseases.
- sol_remmy2 7y ago
  > UAE and Saudi are monarchies This is not as hot of a take as you think. Many reactionaries believe that a monarchy under a good monarch is the ideal government system - much better than a democracy where uninformed voters make so many decisions
- zip1234 7y ago
  China has a capitalist market economy. They do have some degree of government ownership of companies and the government has asserted that they are not capitalist as the communist party is in charge and they have to maintain face. However, in practice, they are on the capitalist spectrum. Also, monarchies can be capitalist. Capitalism just means the state doesn't own everything and collect all the profits.

sol_remmy2 7y ago

> Latin America (where I live) is "west" and those are not very good examples of prosperity. Chile is a good example of a "western" latin american country. Brazil/Argentina are bad examples. Brazil for instance, has state-ownership of its entire oil industry - pretty textbook socialism.

ClumsyPilot 7y ago
US has state ownership of it's entire primary education - pretty textbook socialism. Or maybe the divide isn't clear cut, perhaps?
marcosdumay 7y ago
> pretty textbook socialism Yes, like that socialist disaster that is Finland. (Besides, Brazil does not have state ownership of its entire oil industry.)
nohope 7y ago
As if the lack of prosperity in these countries were because supposed lack of capitalism... Chile? Just look how people are satisfied with their system nowadays... Behind seeming positive macroeconomic numbers, there is a very unequal society. Chile is the most unequal society among all OECD members. The riots that happen there right now are not against any socialism, but against the liberal fail. They followed strict liberal rules since Pinochet dictatorship, and that is what it became.