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To me, part of the problem is the supply of colleges. There's so many of them! Every state has their big state schools, and their smaller, private, low acceptan

To me, part of the problem is the supply of colleges. There's so many of them! Every state has their big state schools, and their smaller, private, low acceptance rate "institutions". But then there's a billion small schools that no one has every heard of, and I'm not sure who is even going there. But I may be biased and don't understand having gone to a big state school. Maybe they were created to fill demand that is now drying up. But if you search for any US state like: "Ohio colleges", google will show you "100+ more colleges" for majority of states.

OldHand2018 7y ago
Ohio is an interesting case. Any "high school" student that can't get an appropriately difficult class at their local school can take the class at a nearby college for both high school and college credit simultaneously. It is paid for by the state of Ohio. It is obviously a really good thing for smart students in small towns and rural school districts and probably a big reason Ohio has a lot of small colleges, though in recent years Ohio has allocated a pool of money to pay for it all and when it runs out (it always runs out), then you have to pay for the classes yourself.
- catalogia 7y ago
  Is that unusual? I've heard of other states having similar programs. When I was a teenager in Pennsylvania, my time during the school day was split between highschool and community college (paid for by the state or school district, I don't recall. It's a good system, though few bothered to take advantage of it. I was one of 4 or 5 kids in my grade that took advantage of the system, even though there were dozens of better students than me who doubtlessly qualified.
  - ineedasername 7y ago
    High Schools & colleges near me partner for this sort of thing, though I don't think there's a lot of state funding to support it. It's unfortunate, since data generally shows that students who get a head start in that way are much more likely to graduate.
    - kevindong 7y ago
      There's a very strong correlation between students who sign up for those kinds of classes and who would've otherwise gone onto the college pathway anyway.
      - ineedasername 7y ago
        Yes, but there's also a strong correlation for students who are forced into those courses due to mandatory "bridge" programs for under-prepared students. Source:I work in higher education analytics
  - OldHand2018 7y ago
    I'm not from Ohio; where I grew up if such a program existed I didn't know about it. But I also attended a high school with almost 3000 students that had a very large selection of courses.
ineedasername 7y ago
In terms of a full college enrollment scenario, i.e., everyone goes to college, there wouldn't be enough supply. About 70% of HS grads start college, and considering many stop out along the way, we're way off from college having the sort of enrollment that High School has. However, enrollment has been increasing steadily. The rate at which students attend college has increased about 10% since 2000. In that sense, as long as we don't add to the inventory of colleges, gradual enrollment growth will fill the ranks of existing colleges. However, the above assumes that the value proposition of college in society doesn't significantly change. There are pointers that it is. Although the problem is there isn't any alternative ready for it to switch to en mass. If people doubt the value proposition today, they're left with not going at all, which is a worse value proposition, or looking at something like a trade school-- that's a perfectly reasonable option, but issues of social perception/prestige make it less attractive, and many trades have low salary caps. A "medical assistant" tops out around $45k for example, though the more rigorous "physicians assistant" can pay up to double that. But overall, trades are fairly likely to have a firm ceiling on wages. Not that graduating college as an English major is always going to pay more, it's just that there's less of a ceiling baked in to it. (Though I'd argue the floor is much lower, like $10/hour barista low)
- droithomme 7y ago
  > $10/hour barista low That's pretty darn low given that the cities hipster enough to have a barista career track tend to have the $15/hr minimum wage.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    "Barista" is a job title in damn near every small town across America. Any big enough to have a starbucks at least.
  - ineedasername 7y ago
    And in cities like that, $15 an hour goes about as far as $10 in a more suburban area with a lower cost of living. I mean, I could have said "COL adjusted minimum wage", but I think the point was fairly clear.

OldHand2018 7y ago

Ohio is an interesting case. Any "high school" student that can't get an appropriately difficult class at their local school can take the class at a nearby college for both high school and college credit simultaneously. It is paid for by the state of Ohio. It is obviously a really good thing for smart students in small towns and rural school districts and probably a big reason Ohio has a lot of small colleges, though in recent years Ohio has allocated a pool of money to pay for it all and when it runs out (it always runs out), then you have to pay for the classes yourself.

catalogia 7y ago
Is that unusual? I've heard of other states having similar programs. When I was a teenager in Pennsylvania, my time during the school day was split between highschool and community college (paid for by the state or school district, I don't recall. It's a good system, though few bothered to take advantage of it. I was one of 4 or 5 kids in my grade that took advantage of the system, even though there were dozens of better students than me who doubtlessly qualified.
- ineedasername 7y ago
  High Schools & colleges near me partner for this sort of thing, though I don't think there's a lot of state funding to support it. It's unfortunate, since data generally shows that students who get a head start in that way are much more likely to graduate.
  - kevindong 7y ago
    There's a very strong correlation between students who sign up for those kinds of classes and who would've otherwise gone onto the college pathway anyway.
    - ineedasername 7y ago
      Yes, but there's also a strong correlation for students who are forced into those courses due to mandatory "bridge" programs for under-prepared students. Source:I work in higher education analytics
- OldHand2018 7y ago
  I'm not from Ohio; where I grew up if such a program existed I didn't know about it. But I also attended a high school with almost 3000 students that had a very large selection of courses.

ineedasername 7y ago

In terms of a full college enrollment scenario, i.e., everyone goes to college, there wouldn't be enough supply. About 70% of HS grads start college, and considering many stop out along the way, we're way off from college having the sort of enrollment that High School has. However, enrollment has been increasing steadily. The rate at which students attend college has increased about 10% since 2000. In that sense, as long as we don't add to the inventory of colleges, gradual enrollment growth will fill the ranks of existing colleges. However, the above assumes that the value proposition of college in society doesn't significantly change. There are pointers that it is. Although the problem is there isn't any alternative ready for it to switch to en mass. If people doubt the value proposition today, they're left with not going at all, which is a worse value proposition, or looking at something like a trade school-- that's a perfectly reasonable option, but issues of social perception/prestige make it less attractive, and many trades have low salary caps. A "medical assistant" tops out around $45k for example, though the more rigorous "physicians assistant" can pay up to double that. But overall, trades are fairly likely to have a firm ceiling on wages. Not that graduating college as an English major is always going to pay more, it's just that there's less of a ceiling baked in to it. (Though I'd argue the floor is much lower, like $10/hour barista low)

droithomme 7y ago
> $10/hour barista low That's pretty darn low given that the cities hipster enough to have a barista career track tend to have the $15/hr minimum wage.
- catalogia 7y ago
  "Barista" is a job title in damn near every small town across America. Any big enough to have a starbucks at least.
- ineedasername 7y ago
  And in cities like that, $15 an hour goes about as far as $10 in a more suburban area with a lower cost of living. I mean, I could have said "COL adjusted minimum wage", but I think the point was fairly clear.