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No pretending to be an engineer can have deadly consequences. Imagine someone saying they're an engineer and being contracted to build a bridge or building. Tha

No pretending to be an engineer can have deadly consequences. Imagine someone saying they're an engineer and being contracted to build a bridge or building. That could (and has) have disastrous consequences.

NOGDP 7y ago
You can be an engineer without an engineering license. Safety-critical jobs usually require a professional engineering license, but there are a lot of engineering work which is not safety-critical.
- SECProto 7y ago
  When it comes to civil stuff (i.e. the safety critical thing people think of when they hear engineer - bridges, buildings, highways, flood protection...) you absolutely can't call yourself an engineer without professional accreditation in every jurisdiction I know.
  - NOGDP 7y ago
    Even then (buildings for example), I believe some of the work can be done by non-licensed engineers. Stuff like land surveying, some electrical, CAD/modelling work, design of plumbing, heating, etc. can be done without license. I know a few people that aren't licensed but work on condos as engineers. I'm guessing a lot of the stuff has to be reviewed/approved by a licensed engineer, but that could be 1 to 5 licensed:unlicensed for example.
    - SECProto 7y ago
      Definitely! Engineers don't do all the work. But if you're working in the field, you don't call yourself an engineer unless you're licensed. (For context: I work in the field and am not a registered engineer, though I studied it in university. I would never call myself an engineer)
      - richk449 7y ago
        You have an engineering degree, but you wouldn’t call yourself an engineer? What do you call yourself?
        SECProto 7y ago
        An engineering graduate, or an engineer-in-training. You can call yourself an engineer once you have several years of experience, pass some exams on law and ethics and whatnot, and get a professional designation.
        ballenf 7y ago
        Do the ethics courses focus on when you’re allowed to call yourself an engineer?
        zo1 7y ago
        That is downright ridiculous, sorry. You are an engineer, just not a "certified" or "accredited" one for some sub-set of tasks/things/requirements. The fact that we have to even discuss this as if saying you're an engineer is some ultra-taboo because people might "mistakenly" allow you to do mission critical or potentially dangerous work without asking for your specific accreditation is disturbing and Orwellian-like policing of plain language.
        journalctl 7y ago
        No, it’s why actual engineering isn’t currently suffering the influx of unskilled dilettantes like software is.
        NOGDP 7y ago
        Getting an engineering license doesn't require much in terms of skill beyond what you'd learn in undergrad.
        7y ago
  - ajdlinux 7y ago
    There's only one state in Australia that has mandatory registration of engineers. There are several more states that are currently starting up mandatory registration schemes, and of course the national professional bodies operate voluntary registration and accreditation schemes. Now of course that doesn't mean that you can just start building bridges as a non-accredited engineer, I expect the courts would look unkindly on you in a negligence lawsuit if your company had engineers that couldn't demonstrate their professional qualifications and development. This is seen as a problem and the professional bodies are pushing more states to adopt mandatory registration, so we'll see more of that in the next few years, but it's not like Australia is a land where bridges fall down weekly without mandatory registration.
  - danielscrubs 7y ago
    The funny thing is that civilingenjör (engineer) is a protected title in Sweden. Also amusing that it's a Swedish person fighting with the American mindset (My Constitutions!). It's very rare to see those.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Dylan16807 7y ago
I could at least pretend that might happen if there was only one kind of engineer. But someone that incompetent at hiring might also hire the wrong kind of engineer. The rule doesn't do anything to help.
- slavik81 7y ago
  A P.Eng. is professionally obligated to refuse work that they're not competent to perform. You can't hire the wrong kind of engineer, because the engineer knows if they're the right kind or not.
  - ultrarunner 7y ago
    Then the wrong engineer just also shirks professional obligation.
    - slavik81 7y ago
      Which would result in their license to practice being revoked by the professional association. It takes ~8 years to fulfill the requirements to acquire a professional license. It's not worth the risk of being caught.
      - slavik81 7y ago
        Just to expand, I've never heard of an engineer from the wrong field signing off on a document (e.g. an EE signing off on a structure), but here's a lesser example of unskilled practice and the corresponding disciplinary action: https://www.apega.ca/assets/PDFs/discipline-decisions/18-011-RDO.pdf https://www.apega.ca/assets/PDFs/discipline-decisions/18-011...
kortilla 7y ago
Well they couldn’t sign off on the part that requires a registered engineer... soooooo
solotronics 7y ago
I am a network engineer and as far as I know there is no professional board for this.
- erikpukinskis 7y ago
  That means you’re not an engineer. That’s not an insult, I’m sure you’re quite skilled. But outside of the software industry “engineer” is a term that signifies certification.

NOGDP 7y ago

You can be an engineer without an engineering license. Safety-critical jobs usually require a professional engineering license, but there are a lot of engineering work which is not safety-critical.

SECProto 7y ago
When it comes to civil stuff (i.e. the safety critical thing people think of when they hear engineer - bridges, buildings, highways, flood protection...) you absolutely can't call yourself an engineer without professional accreditation in every jurisdiction I know.
- NOGDP 7y ago
  Even then (buildings for example), I believe some of the work can be done by non-licensed engineers. Stuff like land surveying, some electrical, CAD/modelling work, design of plumbing, heating, etc. can be done without license. I know a few people that aren't licensed but work on condos as engineers. I'm guessing a lot of the stuff has to be reviewed/approved by a licensed engineer, but that could be 1 to 5 licensed:unlicensed for example.
  - SECProto 7y ago
    Definitely! Engineers don't do all the work. But if you're working in the field, you don't call yourself an engineer unless you're licensed. (For context: I work in the field and am not a registered engineer, though I studied it in university. I would never call myself an engineer)
    - richk449 7y ago
      You have an engineering degree, but you wouldn’t call yourself an engineer? What do you call yourself?
      - SECProto 7y ago
        An engineering graduate, or an engineer-in-training. You can call yourself an engineer once you have several years of experience, pass some exams on law and ethics and whatnot, and get a professional designation.
        ballenf 7y ago
        Do the ethics courses focus on when you’re allowed to call yourself an engineer?
        zo1 7y ago
        That is downright ridiculous, sorry. You are an engineer, just not a "certified" or "accredited" one for some sub-set of tasks/things/requirements. The fact that we have to even discuss this as if saying you're an engineer is some ultra-taboo because people might "mistakenly" allow you to do mission critical or potentially dangerous work without asking for your specific accreditation is disturbing and Orwellian-like policing of plain language.
        journalctl 7y ago
        No, it’s why actual engineering isn’t currently suffering the influx of unskilled dilettantes like software is.
        NOGDP 7y ago
        Getting an engineering license doesn't require much in terms of skill beyond what you'd learn in undergrad.
        7y ago
- ajdlinux 7y ago
  There's only one state in Australia that has mandatory registration of engineers. There are several more states that are currently starting up mandatory registration schemes, and of course the national professional bodies operate voluntary registration and accreditation schemes. Now of course that doesn't mean that you can just start building bridges as a non-accredited engineer, I expect the courts would look unkindly on you in a negligence lawsuit if your company had engineers that couldn't demonstrate their professional qualifications and development. This is seen as a problem and the professional bodies are pushing more states to adopt mandatory registration, so we'll see more of that in the next few years, but it's not like Australia is a land where bridges fall down weekly without mandatory registration.
- danielscrubs 7y ago
  The funny thing is that civilingenjör (engineer) is a protected title in Sweden. Also amusing that it's a Swedish person fighting with the American mindset (My Constitutions!). It's very rare to see those.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Dylan16807 7y ago

I could at least pretend that might happen if there was only one kind of engineer. But someone that incompetent at hiring might also hire the wrong kind of engineer. The rule doesn't do anything to help.

slavik81 7y ago
A P.Eng. is professionally obligated to refuse work that they're not competent to perform. You can't hire the wrong kind of engineer, because the engineer knows if they're the right kind or not.
- ultrarunner 7y ago
  Then the wrong engineer just also shirks professional obligation.
  - slavik81 7y ago
    Which would result in their license to practice being revoked by the professional association. It takes ~8 years to fulfill the requirements to acquire a professional license. It's not worth the risk of being caught.
    - slavik81 7y ago
      Just to expand, I've never heard of an engineer from the wrong field signing off on a document (e.g. an EE signing off on a structure), but here's a lesser example of unskilled practice and the corresponding disciplinary action: https://www.apega.ca/assets/PDFs/discipline-decisions/18-011-RDO.pdf https://www.apega.ca/assets/PDFs/discipline-decisions/18-011...

kortilla 7y ago

Well they couldn’t sign off on the part that requires a registered engineer... soooooo

solotronics 7y ago

I am a network engineer and as far as I know there is no professional board for this.

erikpukinskis 7y ago
That means you’re not an engineer. That’s not an insult, I’m sure you’re quite skilled. But outside of the software industry “engineer” is a term that signifies certification.