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I couldn’t tell from the article if the author had actually tried Catalina. I have been running the beta since day one of the beta release and the only issue is

I couldn’t tell from the article if the author had actually tried Catalina. I have been running the beta since day one of the beta release and the only issue is that applications have to be signed or built locally. Apple wants macOS to be a safe walled garden like iOS and Chromebooks. I am fine with this, but I also have a very nice Linux laptop to play with. I expect organized crime and most governments to continue hacking activities so it makes sense having my Apple devices locked down as much as possible. I avoid arbitrary web browsing on my Linux laptop and just use it for coding.

dwighttk 7y ago
Seems like he hasn't... just read about problems.
tebruno99 7y ago
Why would you try it? Some of us lose money when our machines go down. Apple is supposed to represent quality, but that hasn't happened in so long that if your machine is the machine you make money on, you wait to hear what other people are encountering. Thanks for being my beta tester!
throwaway1777 7y ago
What about all the iCloud bugs? https://tyler.io/broken/ https://tyler.io/broken/
- amiantos 7y ago
  Countering a personal anecdote with another personal anecdote. Here's another: I've been using Catalina since release on multiple Macs and haven't had any problems. I'm also an extensive user of iCloud services, Photos and Drive are very important to me and if I had any issues with either I'd probably lose my mind.
  - kevingadd 7y ago
    "iCloud did <x> to my files" is not an anecdote. It's an assertion of software behavior. The fact that only one sample is being provided does not magically make it an anecdote. You can say the person reporting the bug is a liar, but that's not how quality assurance works in the real world. Most likely the bug they encountered happens in a specific scenario, but regardless, "personal anecdote" or "it works for me" are not appropriate ways to respond to a bug report, let alone one about data loss.
  - CJefferson 7y ago
    The problem is your anecdotes not equal. One person is losing file site awful. One person finds out works isn't suprising, it just shows apple managed to release an OS which isn't buggy for every user.
  - benhurmarcel 7y ago
    iCloud having bugs isn't a rare occurrence. I only have one Apple device (an iPhone), and even in that simple use case I have sync issues from time to time. It's mainly previously deleted things that appear back on the device (photos, reminders…). Apple isn't good at this.
curt15 7y ago
>I avoid arbitrary web browsing on my Linux laptop and just use it for coding. What makes web browsers less secure on Linux than on macOS?
- umvi 7y ago
  Well, lack of DRM support for one. Disney+ won't work on Linux browsers.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    WTF does DRM have to do with browser security?
    - krastanov 7y ago
      I think OP got confused and gave an example of how allegedly browsers on Linux are more secure because there is no DRM (because DRM to an extent allows another party to control what your computer can and can not do, through an unvetted binary blob). But even then they are wrong, as DRM works on browsers running on Linux.
      - Deukhoofd 7y ago
        He's right in that Disney+ doesn't work on Linux however, as it uses Widevine L1, which isn't supported, and which I doubt will ever get supported. I personally expect Disney+ to allow L3 eventually, which is supported on Linux, as it's just software based.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  Unless you're going out of your way to run your browser in a container or dedicated VM on Linux, there are substantial risks associated with browsing the web in terms of exposing all of your information in /home, which might include ssh and pgp private keys, basically everything your user can access. But we have a number of solutions for running things in containers if you just use them. Early on firejail was popular, these days I just run nspawn containers for browser instances and bind mount in some stuff for a shared Downloads directory etc. I can't speak to how that compares to OSX as I've never used it, but it is worth noting that the security story on Linux can range from bad to somewhat OK depending on your setup. Edit: In responses people seem to be completely ignoring that I already stated above in my original comment that I can't speak to how it compares to OSX. I don't know what OSX is doing for application sandboxing defaults. I can however speak with some authority on the Linux situation. And today, if you're running firefox/chrome as your regular user as installed by apt/yum etc, without any additional sandboxing, and that user has access to secrets like ssh/gpg private keys, you're being unnecessarily reckless. And unfortunately that is basically the default way browsers are run today on most distributions This is a major reason why the Flatpak/GNOME people have been working so hard on portals and namespaces are an integral component of the runtime. It's not just about application distribution. They're trying to close a major security hole in desktop linux as it's often used today. They want applications like the browser run in its own namespaces with just the minimum of host filesystem paths bind mounted in. There's absolutely no reason for your browser process to have the ability to access all of your private keys, just because they happen to be under the home directory it happens to have access to, full stop.
mulle_nat 7y ago
How does a user "try out" Catalina, decide that its not for him and then revert back to Mojave ?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Install it on a new volume/virtual machine?
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    Except that that may not really tell you much. If you have a system that is working, and are worried that Catalina might make it no longer work as it did before, you don't learn a lot by installing on a new volume or virtual machine.
    - least 7y ago
      That's a risk inherent with any upgrade to any software. The answer is ultimately that you can't know without trying it on your system. The best thing you could do is to create a cloned backup of your drive or use time machine to restore it if it doesn't work out.
  - mulle_nat 7y ago
    I'd hazard to say, that option is out of reach for most of the Apple user demographic. Instead most will be nagged by Apple to upgrade, upgrade and then there is no going back.
morrick 7y ago
Hello! I am the author, and no, I haven't tried Catalina because, as I state at the very end of my article: "Both my main Macs are really working flawlessly at the moment, and Catalina is beta-quality software that’s likely to give me headaches I don’t need right now. Who knows, maybe down the road I could acquire a cheap used Mac that can run Catalina (something like a 2014 Mac mini) and use it as a test machine. As things are now, I absolutely do not want Catalina to mess with my current setups and data." I'll add — I'm in a position (work-wise) where I can't afford to risk Catalina messing with my current setups and data.
- vinni2 7y ago
  Can you give me the TLDR version of MacOS Catalina’s downsides? Apart from mail layout change of course. I tried to read your blog but it was too difficult to find the points you were making too much rant with actual points hidden here and there. Personally for me this has been the smoothest upgrade ever! Literally no apps are broken and no data lost. Edit: typos and clarified that I read the blog.
  - loriverkutya 7y ago
    He is using Aperture and it is not even starting on Catalina and it is part of his work process.

dwighttk 7y ago

Seems like he hasn't... just read about problems.

tebruno99 7y ago

Why would you try it? Some of us lose money when our machines go down. Apple is supposed to represent quality, but that hasn't happened in so long that if your machine is the machine you make money on, you wait to hear what other people are encountering. Thanks for being my beta tester!

throwaway1777 7y ago

What about all the iCloud bugs? https://tyler.io/broken/ https://tyler.io/broken/

amiantos 7y ago
Countering a personal anecdote with another personal anecdote. Here's another: I've been using Catalina since release on multiple Macs and haven't had any problems. I'm also an extensive user of iCloud services, Photos and Drive are very important to me and if I had any issues with either I'd probably lose my mind.
- kevingadd 7y ago
  "iCloud did <x> to my files" is not an anecdote. It's an assertion of software behavior. The fact that only one sample is being provided does not magically make it an anecdote. You can say the person reporting the bug is a liar, but that's not how quality assurance works in the real world. Most likely the bug they encountered happens in a specific scenario, but regardless, "personal anecdote" or "it works for me" are not appropriate ways to respond to a bug report, let alone one about data loss.
- CJefferson 7y ago
  The problem is your anecdotes not equal. One person is losing file site awful. One person finds out works isn't suprising, it just shows apple managed to release an OS which isn't buggy for every user.
- benhurmarcel 7y ago
  iCloud having bugs isn't a rare occurrence. I only have one Apple device (an iPhone), and even in that simple use case I have sync issues from time to time. It's mainly previously deleted things that appear back on the device (photos, reminders…). Apple isn't good at this.

curt15 7y ago

>I avoid arbitrary web browsing on my Linux laptop and just use it for coding. What makes web browsers less secure on Linux than on macOS?

umvi 7y ago
Well, lack of DRM support for one. Disney+ won't work on Linux browsers.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  WTF does DRM have to do with browser security?
  - krastanov 7y ago
    I think OP got confused and gave an example of how allegedly browsers on Linux are more secure because there is no DRM (because DRM to an extent allows another party to control what your computer can and can not do, through an unvetted binary blob). But even then they are wrong, as DRM works on browsers running on Linux.
    - Deukhoofd 7y ago
      He's right in that Disney+ doesn't work on Linux however, as it uses Widevine L1, which isn't supported, and which I doubt will ever get supported. I personally expect Disney+ to allow L3 eventually, which is supported on Linux, as it's just software based.
newnewpdro 7y ago
Unless you're going out of your way to run your browser in a container or dedicated VM on Linux, there are substantial risks associated with browsing the web in terms of exposing all of your information in /home, which might include ssh and pgp private keys, basically everything your user can access. But we have a number of solutions for running things in containers if you just use them. Early on firejail was popular, these days I just run nspawn containers for browser instances and bind mount in some stuff for a shared Downloads directory etc. I can't speak to how that compares to OSX as I've never used it, but it is worth noting that the security story on Linux can range from bad to somewhat OK depending on your setup. Edit: In responses people seem to be completely ignoring that I already stated above in my original comment that I can't speak to how it compares to OSX. I don't know what OSX is doing for application sandboxing defaults. I can however speak with some authority on the Linux situation. And today, if you're running firefox/chrome as your regular user as installed by apt/yum etc, without any additional sandboxing, and that user has access to secrets like ssh/gpg private keys, you're being unnecessarily reckless. And unfortunately that is basically the default way browsers are run today on most distributions This is a major reason why the Flatpak/GNOME people have been working so hard on portals and namespaces are an integral component of the runtime. It's not just about application distribution. They're trying to close a major security hole in desktop linux as it's often used today. They want applications like the browser run in its own namespaces with just the minimum of host filesystem paths bind mounted in. There's absolutely no reason for your browser process to have the ability to access all of your private keys, just because they happen to be under the home directory it happens to have access to, full stop.

mulle_nat 7y ago

How does a user "try out" Catalina, decide that its not for him and then revert back to Mojave ?

saagarjha 7y ago
Install it on a new volume/virtual machine?
- robbrown451 7y ago
  Except that that may not really tell you much. If you have a system that is working, and are worried that Catalina might make it no longer work as it did before, you don't learn a lot by installing on a new volume or virtual machine.
  - least 7y ago
    That's a risk inherent with any upgrade to any software. The answer is ultimately that you can't know without trying it on your system. The best thing you could do is to create a cloned backup of your drive or use time machine to restore it if it doesn't work out.
- mulle_nat 7y ago
  I'd hazard to say, that option is out of reach for most of the Apple user demographic. Instead most will be nagged by Apple to upgrade, upgrade and then there is no going back.

morrick 7y ago

Hello! I am the author, and no, I haven't tried Catalina because, as I state at the very end of my article: "Both my main Macs are really working flawlessly at the moment, and Catalina is beta-quality software that’s likely to give me headaches I don’t need right now. Who knows, maybe down the road I could acquire a cheap used Mac that can run Catalina (something like a 2014 Mac mini) and use it as a test machine. As things are now, I absolutely do not want Catalina to mess with my current setups and data." I'll add — I'm in a position (work-wise) where I can't afford to risk Catalina messing with my current setups and data.

vinni2 7y ago
Can you give me the TLDR version of MacOS Catalina’s downsides? Apart from mail layout change of course. I tried to read your blog but it was too difficult to find the points you were making too much rant with actual points hidden here and there. Personally for me this has been the smoothest upgrade ever! Literally no apps are broken and no data lost. Edit: typos and clarified that I read the blog.
- loriverkutya 7y ago
  He is using Aperture and it is not even starting on Catalina and it is part of his work process.