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Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA. There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding
by vkaku 7y ago
Call me a cynic, but Europe isn't the USA.
There are a lot of countries in EU which have, IMO, better work culture and fairness of negotiation as the guiding philosophies behind the work.
If Google did this in the USA, it wouldn't be seen as much. However, they have strong laws against this in EU, and this incident would not portray Google in favorable light, IMO.
I also feel that it is high time engineers realized that fairness in work is something we'd all love to have, and historically, skilled people have kept unions to ensure that they don't get screwed over.
I believe that at the end of the day, if you need fairness in negotiation, you need to have a way to express it, especially if it isn't supply driven.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- pergadad 7y agoUnion busting and retaliation against unionisation efforts is prohibited in most (all?) EU countries. Of course in practice not always easy to prove.
- ska 7y agoIsn't it illegal in the US also? Doesn't seem to stop it from happening.
- SolarNet 7y agoIn theory, but the US laws are a lot weaker and also not well enforced. The EU actually enforces it's laws on this subject and they are not as simple to "not technically illegal" them.
- jeffrallen 7y agoSwitzerland is not in the EU.
- spectramax 7y agoYea I feel like it’s cliche to hate on America these days. For those comparing Switzerland to USA, you’re comparing a highly homogeneous culture and highly optimized country to a land full of immigrants gathering in excess of 300 million. Americans criticize their own country more than anyone else. OP’s post not only misses the fact that Switzerland is not in the EU, but more importantly the spirit of argument is baseless with the general perception that things are better in EU.
- vinay427 7y agoAs someone now living in Switzerland, I've found it largely futile trying to explain anything about Switzerland to most non-Europeans. For starters, no one seems to bother with what countries are in the EU, let alone the EEA, let alone where Switzerland is in all of this. Apparently "everyone in Europe" has free government-paid healthcare and never has to pay for any medical expenses. I could go on...
- vonmoltke 7y agoA lot of Europeans on this site make similar statements.
- DoofusOfDeath 7y agoWell, if you're willing to take one more shot at explaining the situation, I for one would be interested.
- zaarn 7y agoTbf the borders of "Europe" are fairly complicated, there is the EU itself, the EEA, the Schengen Area, the Eurozone, EFTA and CEFTA, the EUCU, the EEU, the CISFTA, the OBSEC, the Eastern partnership (or EPA), the OECD Countries, the CEI, and finally the Council of Europe. There is more that I probably forgot about but this should about cover it. None of these political areas and borders have 100% coverage amongst eachother, they're all different groups.
- mc32 7y agoCynically, their response will be to grow offices elsewhere.
- eecc 7y agoCynically, the Swiss will respond "bite me". After all they still do have a pretty sweet tax-heaven setup, despite the scandals.
- ClumsyPilot 7y agoA yes, google expect setup the office just for because they liked local cheese. Not any advantages the place, people and infrastructure offers.
- tahdig 7y agoWell, good luck finding alumni as good as the ones from ETH Zürich anywhere else. Not counting the MIT, Stanford, Harvard, UOT etc. that they have to compete with other FAANG for graduates.
- H8crilA 7y agoI'd vote for everyone who has a reasonable plan of more scrutiny towards 40 hour work weeks. This may reduce salaries but oh God most of us make too much money anyhow. Let's have a life now! When are you going to enjoy life, after retirement? Would you wait with sex till after retirement, too, if that offered a salary increase?
- okr 7y agoYou can not reduce your 40 hour week? I know of at least two companies in Berlin, one of it is the one i work in, that are pretty flexible regarding the 40 hour week.
- nolok 7y agoThis sounds crazy to me. If you're a funder / owner, sure, you don't count hours and it can get crazy. But if you're an employee... Most of my hires now are 30 hours a week, a few at 35h. I don't have anyone at 39h anymore, although that was still the norm a few years ago. Paid stayed the same, just reduced the hours. People are just way more productive that way, and they have two half day free on top of the normal Saturday Sunday. Probably doesn't work for all position, and in fact the worse the job the more likely it doesn't work for it, but uh yeah you can totally reduce to 40h... (France, 35h is the legal work time for a full time contract here, but you can absolutely have a contract with more or less hours, you just pay extra social charges for hours above the 35th)
- ChuckNorris89 7y agoIn which country is the working week 30h? Or is it just your company?
- nolok 7y agoMy company only, working week by law is 35h hours here
- mrep 7y agoIs that a startup thing, because i've only worked for the big 5 (GAFAM) and I've always worked 40 hours a week. Add in the way higher comp, and I don't know why anyone outside of founders work at startups.
- changoplatanero 7y agoNot all of us want a union
- mellosouls 7y agoUnions are optional. There are at least 3 unions at my place, and most employees aren't members. What's the issue?
- changoplatanero 7y agoIn the united states most unions are not optional
- socialdemocrat 7y agoOutside the US there tends to be free choice of union. E.g. in Nordic countries Germany etc you normally have multiple unions to choose from and you don’t have to be member if you don’t have to. It is the US and Anglo-Saxon countries were unions tend to be a binary thing. Germanic countries tend to follow a different union system: sector wise unions rather than company specific unions. Different types of employees will typically join a different union depending on the type of work and interests they have.
- vanniv 7y agoI would go one farther. I won't join a union, and I won't work in a union shop. If my company goes union, I'll go work somewhere else.
- tahdig 7y agoI remember reading this post* which is very useful for comparing US and Swiss(Or European in general) work culture. * "Living in Switzerland ruined me for America and its lousy work culture" https://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/8974435/switzerland-work-life-balance https://www.vox.com/2015/7/21/8974435/switzerland-work-life-... I can attest to the European side of comparison, they do value work but they also value the resting and recovering part.