4 ms·

It will likely stifle my salary, and the salaries of a lot of high earning swes. Or not. Curious what others think.

CydeWeys 7y ago
Since when did unions stifle salaries? They generally get higher salaries for their employees, no? Isn't the typical complaint about union workers that they're "overpaid"?
- joshuamorton 7y ago
  The common complaint is that since unions (at least in a lot of classic union jobs) force pay based on tenure, its difficult or impossible for bright people to succeed and change things. And I'd agree that such a style of union would be antithetical to a company like Google, but its also not the only kind of union.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    Yeah, I just don't see a tech union functioning like that. There's no reason a union would have to enforce strict tenure requirements on salary, especially if most workers in the union don't want that.
- bduerst 7y ago
  >It will likely stifle my salary, and the salaries of a lot of high earning swes. Yeah, this sounds like more anti-Union FUD than being based in actual data. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though if this can be substantiated through more than just cherry picked examples.
- icelancer 7y ago
  > They generally get higher salaries for their employees, no? Unions typically (almost always) bargain to improve the compensation of the average employee. Outlier events are flattened by definition, meaning it is harder to be fired, and harder to make outlier money.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    I don't think that's correct, but even if it were, it sounds like it'd be a good thing as it'd raise salaries for most developers. Surely we don't all think we're the exceptional ones, right? That's simply not possible.
memmcgee 7y ago
Why would it though? In every other industry, union workers make much more than non-union workers. And unions don't seem to drag the salaries of other high earners (actors, screenwriters) down.
- icelancer 7y ago
  >> And unions don't seem to drag the salaries of other high earners (actors, screenwriters) down. This absolutely happens in MLB/MLBPA. Players are not allowed to negotiate most types of incentive-based contracts that would align interests of management and players to give them higher possible pay, amongst other methods of capping pay to improve standards for average professional athletes.
shantly 7y ago
The usual counterexamples are sports player and actors' unions. Even in less glamorous areas, union doesn't always equal salary cap or salary bands or whatever. Usually their main concerns are setting a pay floor and stopping abuse / forcing humane treatment.
- nradov 7y ago
  SAG-AFTRA was notoriously silent for years during the #MeToo "casting couch" abuses. The union was apparently cozy with powerful entertainment industry players and did little to protect their members.
  - icelancer 7y ago
    This is because the higher up members in SAG-AFTRA were complicit themselves. The management of the union are management themselves, which is what a lot of people seem to miss. Who watches the watchers?
    - Apocryphon 7y ago
      Not corporate management, that's for sure.
- icelancer 7y ago
  > sports player unions Probably one of the worst examples. The MLBPA is currently the biggest joke regarding negotiating power, and the NFLPA settled a concussion lawsuit where the NFL is lying about player health and got away without admitting guilt about it. Pro sports unions are inept at battling management and their members are suffering for it - in the case of football, literally dying for it without adequate compensation (if such a thing exists).
tastythrowaway 7y ago
One major thing stifling tech salaries in recent memory was the tech companies themselves: https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/ https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...
goatinaboat 7y ago
It will likely stifle my salary, and the salaries of a lot of high earning swes. Like it does in Hollywood? Oh no wait, everyone from the stars to the extras is in a Union!

Since when did unions stifle salaries? They generally get higher salaries for their employees, no? Isn't the typical complaint about union workers that they're "overpaid"?

joshuamorton 7y ago
The common complaint is that since unions (at least in a lot of classic union jobs) force pay based on tenure, its difficult or impossible for bright people to succeed and change things. And I'd agree that such a style of union would be antithetical to a company like Google, but its also not the only kind of union.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  Yeah, I just don't see a tech union functioning like that. There's no reason a union would have to enforce strict tenure requirements on salary, especially if most workers in the union don't want that.
bduerst 7y ago
>It will likely stifle my salary, and the salaries of a lot of high earning swes. Yeah, this sounds like more anti-Union FUD than being based in actual data. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though if this can be substantiated through more than just cherry picked examples.
icelancer 7y ago
> They generally get higher salaries for their employees, no? Unions typically (almost always) bargain to improve the compensation of the average employee. Outlier events are flattened by definition, meaning it is harder to be fired, and harder to make outlier money.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  I don't think that's correct, but even if it were, it sounds like it'd be a good thing as it'd raise salaries for most developers. Surely we don't all think we're the exceptional ones, right? That's simply not possible.

memmcgee 7y ago

Why would it though? In every other industry, union workers make much more than non-union workers. And unions don't seem to drag the salaries of other high earners (actors, screenwriters) down.

icelancer 7y ago
>> And unions don't seem to drag the salaries of other high earners (actors, screenwriters) down. This absolutely happens in MLB/MLBPA. Players are not allowed to negotiate most types of incentive-based contracts that would align interests of management and players to give them higher possible pay, amongst other methods of capping pay to improve standards for average professional athletes.

shantly 7y ago

The usual counterexamples are sports player and actors' unions. Even in less glamorous areas, union doesn't always equal salary cap or salary bands or whatever. Usually their main concerns are setting a pay floor and stopping abuse / forcing humane treatment.

nradov 7y ago
SAG-AFTRA was notoriously silent for years during the #MeToo "casting couch" abuses. The union was apparently cozy with powerful entertainment industry players and did little to protect their members.
- icelancer 7y ago
  This is because the higher up members in SAG-AFTRA were complicit themselves. The management of the union are management themselves, which is what a lot of people seem to miss. Who watches the watchers?
  - Apocryphon 7y ago
    Not corporate management, that's for sure.
icelancer 7y ago
> sports player unions Probably one of the worst examples. The MLBPA is currently the biggest joke regarding negotiating power, and the NFLPA settled a concussion lawsuit where the NFL is lying about player health and got away without admitting guilt about it. Pro sports unions are inept at battling management and their members are suffering for it - in the case of football, literally dying for it without adequate compensation (if such a thing exists).

tastythrowaway 7y ago

One major thing stifling tech salaries in recent memory was the tech companies themselves: https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage-fixing-cartel-involved-dozens-more-companies-over-one-million-employees/ https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...

goatinaboat 7y ago

It will likely stifle my salary, and the salaries of a lot of high earning swes. Like it does in Hollywood? Oh no wait, everyone from the stars to the extras is in a Union!