10 ms·

On ‘Island’ in Russian Arctic, Arrival of Fast Internet Shakes Political Calm

94 points by wellactually 7y ago

0x38B 7y ago
Enjoyed the excellent photos and reporting. As far as "Life without fast internet": "Residents adjusted. They created an intracity computer network that, among other things, allowed locals to download pirated movies and TV shows without connecting to the wider web. Going on vacation, several said, meant sitting in a hotel room, updating smartphone apps and taking in the bounties of the online world, even if the beach beckoned."
- igivanov 7y ago
  >beach beckoned right, in Norilsk. The reporting is fairly superficial and its purpose is just to serve as a filler for "Putin bad" innuendos. The photos are ok-ish. Though a simple google search in much more informative.
  - wavefunction 7y ago
    >Going on vacation, several said, meant sitting in a hotel room You missed the "going on vacation" part I guess, though perhaps you believe people in Norilsk "go on vacation" by booking a hotel room in Norilsk.
    - inscionent 7y ago
      Norilsk is famous for their staycations
      - Ozumandias 7y ago
        Come experience the world famous staycations of Norilsk. People travel from around the world to staycate here.
    - igivanov 7y ago
      Yes I missed it. My other points still stand.
  - inscionent 7y ago
    Putin is a bad man.
    - birdyrooster 7y ago
      This kind of comment is unthoughtful and against Hacker News commenting guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys intellectual curiosity, the value of the site."
  - birdyrooster 7y ago
    This kind of comment is against Hacker News commenting guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys intellectual curiosity, the value of the site."
    - account73466 7y ago
      Would nice to see this note appearing more often in every second post about China.
      - yorwba 7y ago
        Birdyrooster is not a mod. If you want to see this note more, you can post it yourself, just like they did.
    - ephemeralism 7y ago
      Isn't the posting of the article itself in breach of those violations?
      - account73466 7y ago
        It is. Even the title refers to politics.
- PopeDotNinja 7y ago
  It sounds like what people do (or did a could years ago) in Cuba [1] [1] https://www.wired.com/2017/07/inside-cubas-diy-internet-revolution/ https://www.wired.com/2017/07/inside-cubas-diy-internet-revo...
neonate 7y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20191021001258/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/world/europe/russia-internet-norilsk-youtube-arctic.html https://web.archive.org/web/20191021001258/https://www.nytim...
rconti 7y ago
This is just really confusing to me. I had no idea that propaganda was so resurgent in Russia. I thought openness to modern/popular media would have knocked down a lot of misinformation about "the west". I think of Russians as being active participants on the Internet; I would have thought that this would keep a bit of a lid on single-point-of-view propaganda. (Obviously there's plenty of misinformation on the internet, but it's not all from a single political view) Why is Russia pushing so hard to spread Internet access in such a situation?
- Konnstann 7y ago
  Russian media is mostly state-owned, and independent journalists are jailed for speaking out against the current regime. The government is in the process of trying to emulate China's Great Firewall. The country is in a state of disarray, where the oligarchs are getting hit with sanctions, oil sales are dwindling, and the only way to maintain the status quo is to keep the public focused on an outside enemy, which currently is Ukraine. I don't know why they would expand access, but they might just use it to feed the populace more propaganda.
  - nelcevest 7y ago
    I believe Russian media does exaggerate about US problems. But just as well, I also believe US media exaggerates about Russian problems too. Paraphrasing your post, I could also say US mainstream media is indirectly state-controlled, and independent journalists are fired or discredited for speaking out against the current regime. I really hope we all could move ahead of this Cold-War mentality, that puts the whole world in danger of a nuclear holocaust.
    - account73466 7y ago
      "I could also say US mainstream media is indirectly state-controlled, and independent journalists are fired or discredited for speaking out against the current regime." I guess you was downvoted for that phrase which can't be true /s
    - Konnstann 7y ago
codeulike 7y ago
Just last week I stumbled upon this gallery of photos of Norilsk http://www.bbc.com/culture/gallery/20190321-norilsk-the-city-where-the-sun-doesnt-rise http://www.bbc.com/culture/gallery/20190321-norilsk-the-city... Taken over seven months in 2012 to 2013 as part of her Days of Night/Nights of Day project, Russian photographer Elena Chernyshova’s images reveal what it’s like to live in one of the world’s most isolated cities. In Norilsk, winter lasts nine months – and during the polar night the sun doesn’t rise for two months. One of the roads in the city is on Google Street View https://goo.gl/maps/LrzbFMFLuUvY7sdJ8 https://goo.gl/maps/LrzbFMFLuUvY7sdJ8 edit: And all the way along the street, you see 4 people in Google-coloured red/green/yellow/blue snowsuits. haha https://goo.gl/maps/Z1dFVZBF9fHV1enk7 https://goo.gl/maps/Z1dFVZBF9fHV1enk7
incompatible 7y ago
I have to wonder if the view of the West they are now getting from "YouTube personalities", Facebook and Instagram is much more accurate than they get from Putin. Different, certainly.
averros 7y ago
As someone fluent in Russian (and reading Russian news sources regularly), I'd have to say that the level of propaganda in their news is significantly lower than in US (in fact, even their government news orgs tend to report US news more accurately and with less spin than major US networks). The propaganda is mostly in the positive spin on Russian events, the international news are reasonably level-headed. The popular belief that all media in Russia is government mouthpieces is simply not true - it doesn't take much to find media outlets intensively critical of Putin. They cater to niche audiences, though... Putin remains wildly popular in Russia, and for a bunch of good reasons, such as overseeing tremendous economic growth (Russia's per capita PPP GDP grew 3-fold during his reign). Suppressing domestic terrorism and semi-criminal oligarchs (who rode to their riches on the wave of Yeltsin-era state asset privatizations) are also among the reasons for his popularity. Annexation of Crimea, surprisingly, too - that land has a special place in Russian history, marking a major military success in the war with Ottoman Empire (allied with British and French). The murders of journalists is not a clear-cut issue (as it is portrayed in the West), as most victims got themselves entangled in mob politics or really shady business dealings (which, given that a significant part of "business elite" over there has criminal past, would surprise no one). There's no strong case for linking these to the actions of the central government. There is a lot of speculation, though. Basically, Putin is KGB (FSB now) man, but even during Soviet times assassination of political opponents wasn't their modus operandi (they either got people through legal proceedings or pushed them into exile - you can't find anyone more effectively critical of Soviet regime than Solzhenitsyn, and he was simply allowed to leave). AFAIK there are no current bona-fide journalists being detained in Russia for being critical of the regime. Assange, on the other hand...

94 points by wellactually 7y ago

Enjoyed the excellent photos and reporting. As far as "Life without fast internet": "Residents adjusted. They created an intracity computer network that, among other things, allowed locals to download pirated movies and TV shows without connecting to the wider web. Going on vacation, several said, meant sitting in a hotel room, updating smartphone apps and taking in the bounties of the online world, even if the beach beckoned."

igivanov 7y ago
>beach beckoned right, in Norilsk. The reporting is fairly superficial and its purpose is just to serve as a filler for "Putin bad" innuendos. The photos are ok-ish. Though a simple google search in much more informative.
- wavefunction 7y ago
  >Going on vacation, several said, meant sitting in a hotel room You missed the "going on vacation" part I guess, though perhaps you believe people in Norilsk "go on vacation" by booking a hotel room in Norilsk.
  - inscionent 7y ago
    Norilsk is famous for their staycations
    - Ozumandias 7y ago
      Come experience the world famous staycations of Norilsk. People travel from around the world to staycate here.
  - igivanov 7y ago
    Yes I missed it. My other points still stand.
- inscionent 7y ago
  Putin is a bad man.
  - birdyrooster 7y ago
    This kind of comment is unthoughtful and against Hacker News commenting guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys intellectual curiosity, the value of the site."
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  This kind of comment is against Hacker News commenting guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That destroys intellectual curiosity, the value of the site."
  - account73466 7y ago
    Would nice to see this note appearing more often in every second post about China.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      Birdyrooster is not a mod. If you want to see this note more, you can post it yourself, just like they did.
  - ephemeralism 7y ago
    Isn't the posting of the article itself in breach of those violations?
    - account73466 7y ago
      It is. Even the title refers to politics.
PopeDotNinja 7y ago
It sounds like what people do (or did a could years ago) in Cuba [1] [1] https://www.wired.com/2017/07/inside-cubas-diy-internet-revolution/ https://www.wired.com/2017/07/inside-cubas-diy-internet-revo...

neonate 7y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20191021001258/https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/20/world/europe/russia-internet-norilsk-youtube-arctic.html https://web.archive.org/web/20191021001258/https://www.nytim...

rconti 7y ago

This is just really confusing to me. I had no idea that propaganda was so resurgent in Russia. I thought openness to modern/popular media would have knocked down a lot of misinformation about "the west". I think of Russians as being active participants on the Internet; I would have thought that this would keep a bit of a lid on single-point-of-view propaganda. (Obviously there's plenty of misinformation on the internet, but it's not all from a single political view) Why is Russia pushing so hard to spread Internet access in such a situation?

Konnstann 7y ago
Russian media is mostly state-owned, and independent journalists are jailed for speaking out against the current regime. The government is in the process of trying to emulate China's Great Firewall. The country is in a state of disarray, where the oligarchs are getting hit with sanctions, oil sales are dwindling, and the only way to maintain the status quo is to keep the public focused on an outside enemy, which currently is Ukraine. I don't know why they would expand access, but they might just use it to feed the populace more propaganda.
- nelcevest 7y ago
  I believe Russian media does exaggerate about US problems. But just as well, I also believe US media exaggerates about Russian problems too. Paraphrasing your post, I could also say US mainstream media is indirectly state-controlled, and independent journalists are fired or discredited for speaking out against the current regime. I really hope we all could move ahead of this Cold-War mentality, that puts the whole world in danger of a nuclear holocaust.
  - account73466 7y ago
    "I could also say US mainstream media is indirectly state-controlled, and independent journalists are fired or discredited for speaking out against the current regime." I guess you was downvoted for that phrase which can't be true /s
  - Konnstann 7y ago

codeulike 7y ago

Just last week I stumbled upon this gallery of photos of Norilsk http://www.bbc.com/culture/gallery/20190321-norilsk-the-city-where-the-sun-doesnt-rise http://www.bbc.com/culture/gallery/20190321-norilsk-the-city... Taken over seven months in 2012 to 2013 as part of her Days of Night/Nights of Day project, Russian photographer Elena Chernyshova’s images reveal what it’s like to live in one of the world’s most isolated cities. In Norilsk, winter lasts nine months – and during the polar night the sun doesn’t rise for two months. One of the roads in the city is on Google Street View https://goo.gl/maps/LrzbFMFLuUvY7sdJ8 https://goo.gl/maps/LrzbFMFLuUvY7sdJ8 edit: And all the way along the street, you see 4 people in Google-coloured red/green/yellow/blue snowsuits. haha https://goo.gl/maps/Z1dFVZBF9fHV1enk7 https://goo.gl/maps/Z1dFVZBF9fHV1enk7

incompatible 7y ago

I have to wonder if the view of the West they are now getting from "YouTube personalities", Facebook and Instagram is much more accurate than they get from Putin. Different, certainly.

averros 7y ago

As someone fluent in Russian (and reading Russian news sources regularly), I'd have to say that the level of propaganda in their news is significantly lower than in US (in fact, even their government news orgs tend to report US news more accurately and with less spin than major US networks). The propaganda is mostly in the positive spin on Russian events, the international news are reasonably level-headed. The popular belief that all media in Russia is government mouthpieces is simply not true - it doesn't take much to find media outlets intensively critical of Putin. They cater to niche audiences, though... Putin remains wildly popular in Russia, and for a bunch of good reasons, such as overseeing tremendous economic growth (Russia's per capita PPP GDP grew 3-fold during his reign). Suppressing domestic terrorism and semi-criminal oligarchs (who rode to their riches on the wave of Yeltsin-era state asset privatizations) are also among the reasons for his popularity. Annexation of Crimea, surprisingly, too - that land has a special place in Russian history, marking a major military success in the war with Ottoman Empire (allied with British and French). The murders of journalists is not a clear-cut issue (as it is portrayed in the West), as most victims got themselves entangled in mob politics or really shady business dealings (which, given that a significant part of "business elite" over there has criminal past, would surprise no one). There's no strong case for linking these to the actions of the central government. There is a lot of speculation, though. Basically, Putin is KGB (FSB now) man, but even during Soviet times assassination of political opponents wasn't their modus operandi (they either got people through legal proceedings or pushed them into exile - you can't find anyone more effectively critical of Soviet regime than Solzhenitsyn, and he was simply allowed to leave). AFAIK there are no current bona-fide journalists being detained in Russia for being critical of the regime. Assange, on the other hand...