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Am I the only one that thinks Blizzard is in the right here and they are being made into a scapegoat due to the political climate? Blizzard says "don't talk abo

by sreque 7y ago

Am I the only one that thinks Blizzard is in the right here and they are being made into a scapegoat due to the political climate? Blizzard says "don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments and communication channels." Why can't they be allowed to do so? What would happen to someone if they protested similarly at the Olympics? If you are really upset about what's happening in Hong Kong, why don't you boycott, I don't know, all of China? But that would take too much effort for most airmchair activists. Edit: several good responses from people, including links to actual olympics protests, and links to blizzard pushing political agendas.

hart_russell 7y ago
The way Blizzard handled the situation was absolutely tone deaf and seemingly malicious. Of course they are going to be a lightning rod for a greater outrage.
- deminature 7y ago
  Their PR handling was disastrous (though perhaps forced by the Chinese government [1]), but they're absolutely entitled to not have people hijack their events to spread political messages, regardless of how valid the message may be. [1] https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352 https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352
  - bcrosby95 7y ago
    Blizzard is perfectly fine with politics if they think it won't hurt their bottom line. They've been fairly supportive of the LTGB movement in their western markets. It's why the statement about China having no influence over their decision is such obvious bullshit.
    - arvinsim 7y ago
      > Blizzard is perfectly fine with politics if they think it won't hurt their bottom line. This applies to most business unfortunately.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    They totally have that right, and we totally have our right to call them out on that. So they can ban political speech in their events, and according to the Streisand Effect, that is guaranteed to garner them a lot of negative attention, with plenty of people willing to cross their line to make a point. At anyrate, Blizzard has done a lot for the HK movement since you can’t have civil disobedience without the disobedience. They’ve conveniently provided the context that such disobedience can exist in (and if it wasn’t them, it would be someone else).
  - CobrastanJorji 7y ago
    China probably didn't force them directly. That's the thing about authoritarianism. You learn what you think the government wants, and you enforce it on yourself, potentially going above and beyond what they'd ever even think of demanding upon you. You stop being willing to say things that are critical of the central government out loud, and eventually you even stop THINKING things that are critical of the central government through practice.
  - moate 7y ago
    Of course they are. And if everyone wants to protest them because of that, so be it. This is the thing about the whole "free speech" or "private platform, private rules" debate. You can absolutely do whatever you want, and the entire rest of the world is able to react in whatever way they want. You're allowed to think they're entitled to have a platform they moderate. Other people are allowed to freak the fuck out about the moderation or the behaviors that lead to moderation, or whatever. This is just a pet peeve discussion point of mine as it feels less about the topic and is often used to just dismiss the discussion outright. "They're allowed to do whatever they want, so please be quiet and sit down" type of thing (not saying you're doing that here). TL;dr- everything is political to someone, so and common sense is almost always cultural.
    - deminature 7y ago
      I wouldn't want to be responsible for suggesting legitimate protest be quelled, but there's a large, if not super majority proportion of their customerbase that isn't interested in this latest controversy, and would like to see Blizzcon/random eSports tournament without interruption. Blizzard is obligated to that group as much as they are everyone else.
      - moate 7y ago
        Blizzard isn't obligated to anyone but Blizzard. Isn't that the point of capitalism? They just get to do what they want (assuming it's legal) and "the market" will decide if they're doing the right thing. They could start making pro-nazi propaganda huge part of the WoW experience if they wanted. But the point is that whatever market they choose to service will affect how people feel about them. Again: they can do whatever they want, but once you've made your bed you need to lie in it. You can't make everyone happy all the time, and that's fine. Some people are always going to think Blizzard is shitty because of this, and will swear off their products. Other people will be pissed for 20 minutes and come back when <dope new game/feature> launches. And other people are just going to be annoyed that corporations are pandering to vocal mobs. Blizzard don't owe me anything, and I don't owe them anything either. Welcome to capitalism. Good fucking luck, it's terrible out there.
  - stale2002 7y ago
    > but they're absolutely entitled No, they are not entitled to that. No player broke any laws when they did that. It is fully within anyone's legal right to make political statements, and it is fully within consumers legal right to be upset about whatever they want.
missosoup 7y ago
> Blizzard says "don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments." Why can't they be allowed to do so? Because they built their entire empire upon appealing to equality/wokeness/justice. There is a plaque outside Blizzard HQ that reads "Every Voice Matters". That is the foundation of their success. They don't get to yank it back without blowback when the CCP throws some cash at them.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  News flash: Every company that says "Every Voice Matters" is only pandering and never sincere. They just want your money. Right now, touchy-feel-good stuff is in vogue.
  - missosoup 7y ago
    Yeah but it's a bit hard to run a PR campaign backing off that when you have it engraved on a fcking plaque outside your HQ. That plaque has done more damage in light of their recent actions than any directed media campaign ever could. The reason Blizzard is up shit creek without a paddle is because they simultaneously tried to virtue-signal and pander to developed world sensitivities while selling out to CCP for views opposed to those.
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      Blizzard knows their core audience doesn't care anything about this stuff. Just a few angry people on the internet. Sure, they did some pandering to sucker more people into liking them, but they know who's paying the bills, and it's not the outrage mob.
      - missosoup 7y ago
        Ah yeah. That must be why they're on the front page of HN and stuck between a rock and a hard place with having to cancel Blizzcon after Mei became an international pro-HK meme.
  - filoleg 7y ago
deminature 7y ago
The internet gaming community is addicted to outrage. This is probably the most substantive outrage of the past few years because there's actual international geopolitics at stake, but the target of ire usually changes month-to-month. Last few months it was Epic, next Month we'll probably be back to EA or Ubisoft, and this saga will fade into the background.
- MagnumPIG 7y ago
  It's almost like we want the world to be a better place!
- okatsu 7y ago
  I'm tempted to agree with you, although in the case of Epic it was about stuff like a Chinese company owning a minority stake, or devs choosing Epic as a launch platform (for actual upfront money). This time someone on a public American stage was shut down to cater to a foreign, Big Brother-like government. It's a little less forgettable.
- natalyarostova 7y ago
  > The internet is addicted to outrage. FTFY
deleted 7y ago
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xfalcox 7y ago
Like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu... ?
linuxftw 7y ago
1+ billion people in China vs 17 people on the internet boycotting Blizzard? I know which side I'd choose if I was running the company.
- filoleg 7y ago
  Right, because 1 billion in China uses Blizzard products, while in the US it is only 17 people who are paying customers and are outraged. If those “17 people” in the US bring more revenue than a billion in China, then Blizzard might want to be concerned.
- learc83 7y ago
  1. China accounts a small fraction of their income 2. The government's demands are only going to get more onerous from here. 3. The Chinese government isn't going to let an American company have open access to their markets for long. I guarantee they have a plan to replace Blizzard (and the NBA and every other foreign company) with domestic companies.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    > China accounts a small fraction of their income 100% probability that Blizzard is making more keeping Chinese customers than angering a few angry people on the internet. > The government's demands are only going to get more onerous from here. Proof? > The Chinese government isn't going to let an American company have open access to their markets for long. I see. "They" have a "plan." Sure. These are just empty words.
    - learc83 7y ago
      The last 20 years are littered with examples of China allowing foreign companies in, forcing them to share IP with domestic partners, and then shutting out those foreign companies once domestic companies no longer need their foreign partners. There's even huge knockoff Blizzard theme park in China. It's not some hypothetical concern, it's standard practice. The Chinese market is not a good bet for foreign companies.
    - 7y ago
jdhn 7y ago
>Am I the only one that thinks Blizzard is in the right here and they are being made into a scapegoat due to the political climate? I feel it'd be one thing if they had just asked for no politics to be brought up on their official channels, but based on events that have happened in the past week, it seems quite obvious to me that they're very cozy with the Chinese authorities.
lostmsu 7y ago
Do many people interact with China on a daily/monthly basis?
GhostVII 7y ago
I think it is reasonable for them to disallow divisive topics from being discussed. I don't think it is reasonable to take a contestants prize money because they broke that rule, or to fire the interviewers who didn't say anything controversial. And even if it was a perfectly fine thing to do, they are doing it because the Chinese government wants them to, which I don't agree with.
jasonlotito 7y ago
The reason people won't boycott China or other companies that are doing far worse than upholding rules agreed to by those breaking them is because it will impact them financially. Blizzard is doing the same thing. They are only doing the same thing everyone else does already. Case in point: where were these people prior to Blizzard banning the player? They weren't up in arms about companies supporting China. And where is the boycott of Apple and their removal of an app amongst other things (giving the keys to iCloud to the Chinese). The reality is, while some people might have quit, Blizzard isn't do as much because they probably aren't losing as much. The boycott is coming from people who aren't giving them money. Who are subscribe to their games, or playing Hearthstone. Gamers weren't playing the games before, and boycotting them now means nothing happens. I'm not suggesting that you can't take a stance, and I'm sure someone will post here how they quit Blizzard games and they were actively playing. Great. And I know someone who started playing WoW Classic while this was going on, so whatever. Point is, Blizzard isn't doing anything more or less than what people are already doing. If anything, we should be ashamed of ourselves first.
- moate 7y ago
  IDK man, I only have so many hours in a day. Saying "why weren't you actively engaged in this cause yesterday" isn't really saying much. Some people were pissed with Blizzard before this for <reasons> and this is just the final straw. Other people just found out. Some change is dramatic and immediate, other times it's the slow drip of water cuts the stone. Most people don't spend their time researching every action and behavior every company has performed ever. If your point is just that everyone everywhere is terrible and hypocritical, I mean I don't feel like nuking the world or killing myself so I guess I'm just going to try my best to be a good person and do good things?
- CapricornNoble 7y ago
  >>>Case in point: where were these people prior to Blizzard banning the player? They weren't up in arms about companies supporting China. I think a lot of Blizzard fans were "on edge" after the mobile Diablo game was announced at Blizzcon last year instead of Diablo 4[1][2]. It was considered to be pandering to the Chinese market at the expense of Blizzard's die-hard and long-supporting western fanbase. The "Hong Kong Incident" is just the straw that broke the camel's back. [1]https://youtu.be/Ik8efxXXUvo https://youtu.be/Ik8efxXXUvo [2]https://youtu.be/z3jxB7gx8ms https://youtu.be/z3jxB7gx8ms
deleted 7y ago
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beaner 7y ago
You might partly have a point if it wasn't applied so unevenly. If a gamer said "Bernie 2020!" or advocated the free state project, would the same thing happen? Blizzard wants money and is pandering to the Chinese government. It's not there result of actually caring about that type of rule.
cglace 7y ago
How did you feel about the NFL kneeling situation? I'm not trying to stir anything up, just curious.
falcolas 7y ago
> Blizzard is in the right here I don't believe this, because their knee-jerk reaction to one party doing this was to fine them for $10,000 and ban them from competition for one year, but to another party (with an objectively worse message from Blizzard's point of view) it was "keep going, you're fine." Oh, and the tweet on the official Hearthstone account to reassure the Chinese government and citizens that they will continue to protect Chinese interests. Fixing it after the fact doesn't change that their initial reaction was fucked up. Even the "fixed" penalty is completely out of proportion with the offense (when compared to other sporting groups that have similar rules). > Why can't they be allowed to do so? My personal opionin: Because they are based out of the US, and the US supports free speech enough to bake it into many of our laws. So long as Blizzard takes advantage of US resources to run their business in China, they should espouse many of the same morals as the the US. > If you are really upset about what's happening in Hong Kong, why don't you boycott, I don't know, all of China? Why can't someone justifiably do both? Blizzard is supporting China's policies for the opportunity to take advantage of China's mobile market, and Blizzard's support is one (of many) reasons that the US will not use the amount of force necessary to enact changes against China. > But that would take too much effort for most airmchair activists. Ad hominim attacks aside, doing things like talking about the protests in Hong Kong, and encouraging companies with ties to China to allow this free speech is doing something.
- wonnage 7y ago
  > So long as Blizzard takes advantage of US resources to run their business in China, they should espouse many of the same morals as the the US. They also use Chinese resources to run their business (I.e, all the money they make there), it's a real melting pot of morals here.
wetpaws 7y ago
They have a right to do whatever they want but we also have a right to do whatever we want including not buying their games.
alexggordon 7y ago
I believe you're partially correct. Blizzard does go to an effort to keep politics out of the game, and has a history of being fairly impartial about it. You will be banned for having either Trump or Obama in your name, among most other trademarked names[0]. However, the issue most people have with Blizzard is that they didn't ban someone for bringing politics up in game--they banned someone for bringing it up in a Twitch stream--specifically a post match interview[1], or the tournaments and communication channels as you put it. While I think it's fully within Blizzards rights to moderate whatever goes through its servers, I believe banning someone for the content of an in person interview is outside of their purview, and probably touches on a free speech issue or two. A similar issue/question to this would be "Can the NFL ban kneeling during the national anthem?" The issue of NFL players kneeling before the (American) football games seems very legally similar to Blizzard players mentioning politics outside of actual games, but on a "company" stream. I tend to err on the side of always allowing peaceful, non-disruptive protest, regardless of who owns the media channel. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Blizzard/comments/82g25i/having_trump_in_your_name_is_now_a_banable/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Blizzard/comments/82g25i/having_tru... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/blizzard-reduces-pro-hong-kong-hearthstone-player-blitzchungs-ban-2019-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/blizzard-reduces-pro-hong-ko...
drucik 7y ago
> Am I the only one that thinks Blizzard is in the right No, I think there’s quite a number of people being used to the whole world doing censoring on behalf of China. Status quo is comfy. “It’s been like this for long, nobody is getting hurt, why we should do anything about it”. Heck, I’m sure execs at blizzard are saying right now “everybody has been doing this for so long and nobody cared and now everyone is against us”. But the line has to be put somewhere. “It’s good to be decent”. I wish more people started trying being decent. And regarding your ending - that must be some kind of a fallacy. Yes, everybody knows it’s impossible to start “boycotting China”. Too much manufacturing being done there etc. But change has to start somewhere. And the approach “it won’t work anyway so why bother” is simply despicable.
plopz 7y ago
Its hypocritical when they themselves push politicized agenda, (PRIDE month), through the same channels (Overwatch League) that they say need to stay focused on only the games.
duxup 7y ago
Blizzard decided that "free hong kong" was: "Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image" I suppose what is offensive is always up for debate, but I don't see any reason there wouldn't be consequences from folks who live in a free society when they see such a light level of speech clamped down on, presumably because on oppressive regime wanted them to.
liquidify 7y ago
The Olympics have a long history of protest. As an example... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu... Using a sport as a platform for protest is very common and has been a positive for the world.
- Fuzzwah 7y ago
  The point wasn't that sport isn't used for protest, but how the people who use their sporting platform to protest are then treated. The Australian runner on the podium with John Carlos and Tommie Smith in 1968: > Norman was not selected for the 1972 Summer Olympics, and retired from the sport soon after.
LanceH 7y ago
>"don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments and communication channels." Turn off the mic and switch cameras. They responded with one year suspension and clawback of winnings.
wonnage 7y ago
China's authoritarian government works. And that scares the shit out of the West. But instead of channeling that fear toward some productive outlet, we decided to bury our heads in the sand. Trump is just a symptom. So we continue to let our infrastructure and cities crumble and use the spectre of China to block any useful reform. Freedom!
dcchambers 7y ago
They are a private company and have every right to do whatever censoring they want. Players have every right to protest their games because of that decision. If Activision/Blizzard thinks they can make more money in China than they can in West, then they have absolutely no obligation to listen to what Western players want. That's just capitalism. Is it dumb for them to do this? Maybe. But they have every right to make that mistake.
Rebelgecko 7y ago
>Blizzard says "don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments and communication channels." There would probably be less uproar if a) the rule that he broke was written in a less dumb way or b) the rule wasn't enforced in an arbitrary and selective fashion I mentioned this elsewhere, but the guy who said "Free Hong Kong" got a harsher punishment than people who have been caught cheating at Blizzard's tournaments. To me, that says something very sad about Blizzard's priorities. I think if Blizzard had initially given him a more proportionate punishment there would have been much less of an uproar.
newfangle 7y ago
How do you justify the statement that came from their Chinese subsidiary that states "We will firmly protect the pride of the country!"
stale2002 7y ago
> Why can't they be allowed to do so? They are "allowed" to make whatever dumb policies that they want. And consumers are also equally "allowed" to be upset, to engage in boycotts ,to protest their conventions, and to generally cause as much economic damage as possible.
alasdair_ 7y ago
>Blizzard says "don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments and communication channels." Why can't they be allowed to do so? Obviously they ARE allowed to ban people if they want to, but I assume you wonder why people are so upset about it? The issue is simple: Blizzard has repeatedly allowed (and even endorsed) political statements in similar situations in the past yet decided to ban a player and strip their winnings instead of simply telling them "don't do that again or we will need to ban you". Their enforcement was extremely selective and, importantly, they were allowing China to dictate what could or could not be said in a game interview that took place OUTSIDE of China.

by sreque 7y ago

hart_russell 7y ago

The way Blizzard handled the situation was absolutely tone deaf and seemingly malicious. Of course they are going to be a lightning rod for a greater outrage.

deminature 7y ago
Their PR handling was disastrous (though perhaps forced by the Chinese government [1]), but they're absolutely entitled to not have people hijack their events to spread political messages, regardless of how valid the message may be. [1] https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352 https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/1183215204525412352
- bcrosby95 7y ago
  Blizzard is perfectly fine with politics if they think it won't hurt their bottom line. They've been fairly supportive of the LTGB movement in their western markets. It's why the statement about China having no influence over their decision is such obvious bullshit.
  - arvinsim 7y ago
    > Blizzard is perfectly fine with politics if they think it won't hurt their bottom line. This applies to most business unfortunately.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  They totally have that right, and we totally have our right to call them out on that. So they can ban political speech in their events, and according to the Streisand Effect, that is guaranteed to garner them a lot of negative attention, with plenty of people willing to cross their line to make a point. At anyrate, Blizzard has done a lot for the HK movement since you can’t have civil disobedience without the disobedience. They’ve conveniently provided the context that such disobedience can exist in (and if it wasn’t them, it would be someone else).
- CobrastanJorji 7y ago
  China probably didn't force them directly. That's the thing about authoritarianism. You learn what you think the government wants, and you enforce it on yourself, potentially going above and beyond what they'd ever even think of demanding upon you. You stop being willing to say things that are critical of the central government out loud, and eventually you even stop THINKING things that are critical of the central government through practice.
- moate 7y ago
  Of course they are. And if everyone wants to protest them because of that, so be it. This is the thing about the whole "free speech" or "private platform, private rules" debate. You can absolutely do whatever you want, and the entire rest of the world is able to react in whatever way they want. You're allowed to think they're entitled to have a platform they moderate. Other people are allowed to freak the fuck out about the moderation or the behaviors that lead to moderation, or whatever. This is just a pet peeve discussion point of mine as it feels less about the topic and is often used to just dismiss the discussion outright. "They're allowed to do whatever they want, so please be quiet and sit down" type of thing (not saying you're doing that here). TL;dr- everything is political to someone, so and common sense is almost always cultural.
  - deminature 7y ago
    I wouldn't want to be responsible for suggesting legitimate protest be quelled, but there's a large, if not super majority proportion of their customerbase that isn't interested in this latest controversy, and would like to see Blizzcon/random eSports tournament without interruption. Blizzard is obligated to that group as much as they are everyone else.
    - moate 7y ago
      Blizzard isn't obligated to anyone but Blizzard. Isn't that the point of capitalism? They just get to do what they want (assuming it's legal) and "the market" will decide if they're doing the right thing. They could start making pro-nazi propaganda huge part of the WoW experience if they wanted. But the point is that whatever market they choose to service will affect how people feel about them. Again: they can do whatever they want, but once you've made your bed you need to lie in it. You can't make everyone happy all the time, and that's fine. Some people are always going to think Blizzard is shitty because of this, and will swear off their products. Other people will be pissed for 20 minutes and come back when <dope new game/feature> launches. And other people are just going to be annoyed that corporations are pandering to vocal mobs. Blizzard don't owe me anything, and I don't owe them anything either. Welcome to capitalism. Good fucking luck, it's terrible out there.
- stale2002 7y ago
  > but they're absolutely entitled No, they are not entitled to that. No player broke any laws when they did that. It is fully within anyone's legal right to make political statements, and it is fully within consumers legal right to be upset about whatever they want.

missosoup 7y ago

> Blizzard says "don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments." Why can't they be allowed to do so? Because they built their entire empire upon appealing to equality/wokeness/justice. There is a plaque outside Blizzard HQ that reads "Every Voice Matters". That is the foundation of their success. They don't get to yank it back without blowback when the CCP throws some cash at them.

linuxftw 7y ago
News flash: Every company that says "Every Voice Matters" is only pandering and never sincere. They just want your money. Right now, touchy-feel-good stuff is in vogue.
- missosoup 7y ago
  Yeah but it's a bit hard to run a PR campaign backing off that when you have it engraved on a fcking plaque outside your HQ. That plaque has done more damage in light of their recent actions than any directed media campaign ever could. The reason Blizzard is up shit creek without a paddle is because they simultaneously tried to virtue-signal and pander to developed world sensitivities while selling out to CCP for views opposed to those.
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    Blizzard knows their core audience doesn't care anything about this stuff. Just a few angry people on the internet. Sure, they did some pandering to sucker more people into liking them, but they know who's paying the bills, and it's not the outrage mob.
    - missosoup 7y ago
      Ah yeah. That must be why they're on the front page of HN and stuck between a rock and a hard place with having to cancel Blizzcon after Mei became an international pro-HK meme.
- filoleg 7y ago

deminature 7y ago

The internet gaming community is addicted to outrage. This is probably the most substantive outrage of the past few years because there's actual international geopolitics at stake, but the target of ire usually changes month-to-month. Last few months it was Epic, next Month we'll probably be back to EA or Ubisoft, and this saga will fade into the background.

MagnumPIG 7y ago
It's almost like we want the world to be a better place!
okatsu 7y ago
I'm tempted to agree with you, although in the case of Epic it was about stuff like a Chinese company owning a minority stake, or devs choosing Epic as a launch platform (for actual upfront money). This time someone on a public American stage was shut down to cater to a foreign, Big Brother-like government. It's a little less forgettable.
natalyarostova 7y ago
> The internet is addicted to outrage. FTFY

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

xfalcox 7y ago

Like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu... ?

linuxftw 7y ago

1+ billion people in China vs 17 people on the internet boycotting Blizzard? I know which side I'd choose if I was running the company.

filoleg 7y ago
Right, because 1 billion in China uses Blizzard products, while in the US it is only 17 people who are paying customers and are outraged. If those “17 people” in the US bring more revenue than a billion in China, then Blizzard might want to be concerned.
learc83 7y ago
1. China accounts a small fraction of their income 2. The government's demands are only going to get more onerous from here. 3. The Chinese government isn't going to let an American company have open access to their markets for long. I guarantee they have a plan to replace Blizzard (and the NBA and every other foreign company) with domestic companies.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  > China accounts a small fraction of their income 100% probability that Blizzard is making more keeping Chinese customers than angering a few angry people on the internet. > The government's demands are only going to get more onerous from here. Proof? > The Chinese government isn't going to let an American company have open access to their markets for long. I see. "They" have a "plan." Sure. These are just empty words.
  - learc83 7y ago
    The last 20 years are littered with examples of China allowing foreign companies in, forcing them to share IP with domestic partners, and then shutting out those foreign companies once domestic companies no longer need their foreign partners. There's even huge knockoff Blizzard theme park in China. It's not some hypothetical concern, it's standard practice. The Chinese market is not a good bet for foreign companies.
  - 7y ago

jdhn 7y ago

>Am I the only one that thinks Blizzard is in the right here and they are being made into a scapegoat due to the political climate? I feel it'd be one thing if they had just asked for no politics to be brought up on their official channels, but based on events that have happened in the past week, it seems quite obvious to me that they're very cozy with the Chinese authorities.

lostmsu 7y ago

Do many people interact with China on a daily/monthly basis?

GhostVII 7y ago

I think it is reasonable for them to disallow divisive topics from being discussed. I don't think it is reasonable to take a contestants prize money because they broke that rule, or to fire the interviewers who didn't say anything controversial. And even if it was a perfectly fine thing to do, they are doing it because the Chinese government wants them to, which I don't agree with.

jasonlotito 7y ago

The reason people won't boycott China or other companies that are doing far worse than upholding rules agreed to by those breaking them is because it will impact them financially. Blizzard is doing the same thing. They are only doing the same thing everyone else does already. Case in point: where were these people prior to Blizzard banning the player? They weren't up in arms about companies supporting China. And where is the boycott of Apple and their removal of an app amongst other things (giving the keys to iCloud to the Chinese). The reality is, while some people might have quit, Blizzard isn't do as much because they probably aren't losing as much. The boycott is coming from people who aren't giving them money. Who are subscribe to their games, or playing Hearthstone. Gamers weren't playing the games before, and boycotting them now means nothing happens. I'm not suggesting that you can't take a stance, and I'm sure someone will post here how they quit Blizzard games and they were actively playing. Great. And I know someone who started playing WoW Classic while this was going on, so whatever. Point is, Blizzard isn't doing anything more or less than what people are already doing. If anything, we should be ashamed of ourselves first.

moate 7y ago
IDK man, I only have so many hours in a day. Saying "why weren't you actively engaged in this cause yesterday" isn't really saying much. Some people were pissed with Blizzard before this for <reasons> and this is just the final straw. Other people just found out. Some change is dramatic and immediate, other times it's the slow drip of water cuts the stone. Most people don't spend their time researching every action and behavior every company has performed ever. If your point is just that everyone everywhere is terrible and hypocritical, I mean I don't feel like nuking the world or killing myself so I guess I'm just going to try my best to be a good person and do good things?
CapricornNoble 7y ago
>>>Case in point: where were these people prior to Blizzard banning the player? They weren't up in arms about companies supporting China. I think a lot of Blizzard fans were "on edge" after the mobile Diablo game was announced at Blizzcon last year instead of Diablo 4[1][2]. It was considered to be pandering to the Chinese market at the expense of Blizzard's die-hard and long-supporting western fanbase. The "Hong Kong Incident" is just the straw that broke the camel's back. [1]https://youtu.be/Ik8efxXXUvo https://youtu.be/Ik8efxXXUvo [2]https://youtu.be/z3jxB7gx8ms https://youtu.be/z3jxB7gx8ms

deleted 7y ago

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beaner 7y ago

You might partly have a point if it wasn't applied so unevenly. If a gamer said "Bernie 2020!" or advocated the free state project, would the same thing happen? Blizzard wants money and is pandering to the Chinese government. It's not there result of actually caring about that type of rule.

cglace 7y ago

How did you feel about the NFL kneeling situation? I'm not trying to stir anything up, just curious.

falcolas 7y ago

> Blizzard is in the right here I don't believe this, because their knee-jerk reaction to one party doing this was to fine them for $10,000 and ban them from competition for one year, but to another party (with an objectively worse message from Blizzard's point of view) it was "keep going, you're fine." Oh, and the tweet on the official Hearthstone account to reassure the Chinese government and citizens that they will continue to protect Chinese interests. Fixing it after the fact doesn't change that their initial reaction was fucked up. Even the "fixed" penalty is completely out of proportion with the offense (when compared to other sporting groups that have similar rules). > Why can't they be allowed to do so? My personal opionin: Because they are based out of the US, and the US supports free speech enough to bake it into many of our laws. So long as Blizzard takes advantage of US resources to run their business in China, they should espouse many of the same morals as the the US. > If you are really upset about what's happening in Hong Kong, why don't you boycott, I don't know, all of China? Why can't someone justifiably do both? Blizzard is supporting China's policies for the opportunity to take advantage of China's mobile market, and Blizzard's support is one (of many) reasons that the US will not use the amount of force necessary to enact changes against China. > But that would take too much effort for most airmchair activists. Ad hominim attacks aside, doing things like talking about the protests in Hong Kong, and encouraging companies with ties to China to allow this free speech is doing something.

wonnage 7y ago
> So long as Blizzard takes advantage of US resources to run their business in China, they should espouse many of the same morals as the the US. They also use Chinese resources to run their business (I.e, all the money they make there), it's a real melting pot of morals here.

wetpaws 7y ago

They have a right to do whatever they want but we also have a right to do whatever we want including not buying their games.

alexggordon 7y ago

I believe you're partially correct. Blizzard does go to an effort to keep politics out of the game, and has a history of being fairly impartial about it. You will be banned for having either Trump or Obama in your name, among most other trademarked names[0]. However, the issue most people have with Blizzard is that they didn't ban someone for bringing politics up in game--they banned someone for bringing it up in a Twitch stream--specifically a post match interview[1], or the tournaments and communication channels as you put it. While I think it's fully within Blizzards rights to moderate whatever goes through its servers, I believe banning someone for the content of an in person interview is outside of their purview, and probably touches on a free speech issue or two. A similar issue/question to this would be "Can the NFL ban kneeling during the national anthem?" The issue of NFL players kneeling before the (American) football games seems very legally similar to Blizzard players mentioning politics outside of actual games, but on a "company" stream. I tend to err on the side of always allowing peaceful, non-disruptive protest, regardless of who owns the media channel. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/Blizzard/comments/82g25i/having_trump_in_your_name_is_now_a_banable/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Blizzard/comments/82g25i/having_tru... [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/blizzard-reduces-pro-hong-kong-hearthstone-player-blitzchungs-ban-2019-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/blizzard-reduces-pro-hong-ko...

drucik 7y ago

> Am I the only one that thinks Blizzard is in the right No, I think there’s quite a number of people being used to the whole world doing censoring on behalf of China. Status quo is comfy. “It’s been like this for long, nobody is getting hurt, why we should do anything about it”. Heck, I’m sure execs at blizzard are saying right now “everybody has been doing this for so long and nobody cared and now everyone is against us”. But the line has to be put somewhere. “It’s good to be decent”. I wish more people started trying being decent. And regarding your ending - that must be some kind of a fallacy. Yes, everybody knows it’s impossible to start “boycotting China”. Too much manufacturing being done there etc. But change has to start somewhere. And the approach “it won’t work anyway so why bother” is simply despicable.

plopz 7y ago

Its hypocritical when they themselves push politicized agenda, (PRIDE month), through the same channels (Overwatch League) that they say need to stay focused on only the games.

duxup 7y ago

Blizzard decided that "free hong kong" was: "Engaging in any act that, in Blizzard’s sole discretion, brings you into public disrepute, offends a portion or group of the public, or otherwise damages Blizzard image" I suppose what is offensive is always up for debate, but I don't see any reason there wouldn't be consequences from folks who live in a free society when they see such a light level of speech clamped down on, presumably because on oppressive regime wanted them to.

liquidify 7y ago

The Olympics have a long history of protest. As an example... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Olympics_Black_Power_salu... Using a sport as a platform for protest is very common and has been a positive for the world.

Fuzzwah 7y ago
The point wasn't that sport isn't used for protest, but how the people who use their sporting platform to protest are then treated. The Australian runner on the podium with John Carlos and Tommie Smith in 1968: > Norman was not selected for the 1972 Summer Olympics, and retired from the sport soon after.

LanceH 7y ago

>"don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments and communication channels." Turn off the mic and switch cameras. They responded with one year suspension and clawback of winnings.

wonnage 7y ago

China's authoritarian government works. And that scares the shit out of the West. But instead of channeling that fear toward some productive outlet, we decided to bury our heads in the sand. Trump is just a symptom. So we continue to let our infrastructure and cities crumble and use the spectre of China to block any useful reform. Freedom!

dcchambers 7y ago

They are a private company and have every right to do whatever censoring they want. Players have every right to protest their games because of that decision. If Activision/Blizzard thinks they can make more money in China than they can in West, then they have absolutely no obligation to listen to what Western players want. That's just capitalism. Is it dumb for them to do this? Maybe. But they have every right to make that mistake.

Rebelgecko 7y ago

>Blizzard says "don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments and communication channels." There would probably be less uproar if a) the rule that he broke was written in a less dumb way or b) the rule wasn't enforced in an arbitrary and selective fashion I mentioned this elsewhere, but the guy who said "Free Hong Kong" got a harsher punishment than people who have been caught cheating at Blizzard's tournaments. To me, that says something very sad about Blizzard's priorities. I think if Blizzard had initially given him a more proportionate punishment there would have been much less of an uproar.

newfangle 7y ago

How do you justify the statement that came from their Chinese subsidiary that states "We will firmly protect the pride of the country!"

stale2002 7y ago

> Why can't they be allowed to do so? They are "allowed" to make whatever dumb policies that they want. And consumers are also equally "allowed" to be upset, to engage in boycotts ,to protest their conventions, and to generally cause as much economic damage as possible.

alasdair_ 7y ago

>Blizzard says "don't talk about divisive things using our tournaments and communication channels." Why can't they be allowed to do so? Obviously they ARE allowed to ban people if they want to, but I assume you wonder why people are so upset about it? The issue is simple: Blizzard has repeatedly allowed (and even endorsed) political statements in similar situations in the past yet decided to ban a player and strip their winnings instead of simply telling them "don't do that again or we will need to ban you". Their enforcement was extremely selective and, importantly, they were allowing China to dictate what could or could not be said in a game interview that took place OUTSIDE of China.