4 ms·

UK govt considering facial recognition to verify age of online users

43 points by rahuldottech 7y ago

jmkni 7y ago
Taking their cues from China now?
MaxBarraclough 7y ago
Not even a week after they conceded that their previous such effort was a failure. [0] I recall reading somewhere that the reason for all this nonsense (don't forget this stuff too [1]) may be that the Conservative Party still wants to score points with their ultra-conservative base after legalising gay marriage. I have no doubt that the upshot of this latest effort will be just like the last time: wasting a few million pounds of tax funds, and online mockery. [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/16/age_verification_pornblocking_plans_shelved/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/16/age_verification_po... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/dec/05/uk-pornography-law-scientific-perspective-children-safety https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/dec/...
- OJFord 7y ago
  > ultra-conservative base Surely ultra (anything) base is an oxymoron?
  - jdjdjjsjs 7y ago
    Not in this case because the word base here does not refer to a "standard" level of which ultraX would be the opposite, but rather refers to a group of people who support a particular political party. There's nothing oxymoronic about the idea that people with extreme views form the core support of a candidate or party.
- hazeii 7y ago
  It's likely not a serious proposal; possibly more aimed at shifting people's perception of what's reasonable towards a 'more moderate' solution that would previously have been considered unacceptable. Common technique: have someone not too senior (or retired) propose something outrageous, then introduce what was really planned all along and present it as a compromise.
  - Funes- 7y ago
    >more aimed at shifting people's perception of what's reasonable towards a 'more moderate' solution that would previously have been considered unacceptable. Playing with the Overton window [0], then. Interesting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window.
- Traster 7y ago
  It's important to know that the UK government currently has a majority of around -40. Which means there's going to be an election sooner or later and no legislation can pass. This allows them to announce and pursue popular policy without any intention of fulfilling their promises - since they can't pass their legislation now, and they won't need to answer for their policies for 5 years if they win an election.
croon 7y ago
So either identifying individuals based on a national database mapped against profile and age (privacy nightmare), or guessing age based on looks using a janky ML model (very error prone). What could possibly go wrong...
qubex 7y ago
I presume they expect to do this by means of webcams or uploaded photographs. What’s to prevent somebody holding up an enlarged photograph or sending a JPEG of Uncle Pete?
- rwmj 7y ago
  Chrome actually makes this easy. It has a literal option "--use-file-for-fake-video-capture" which does what it says. https://webrtc.org/testing/ https://webrtc.org/testing/
fredley 7y ago
Facial recognition is almost universally trivial to defeat as an authentication mechanism. A colleague had a Microsoft Surface with facial unlock. I could hold up my phone to the camera, with his Slack profile picture fullscreen, and it would unlock.
- B_S_Johnson 7y ago
  I knew my blender project modelling the heads of conservative politicians was going to come in handy one day!
- shadowprofile77 7y ago
  But how easy would it be to defeat as an identification mechanism in public areas when used for widespread surveillance? That's the real aim of facial recognition for governments I think.
  - fredley 7y ago
    https://cvdazzle.com/ https://cvdazzle.com/
dominicr 7y ago
The MP who said this, Nicky Morgan, has a less than stellar reputation. Sounds like the comment was purely a case of throwing out a buzzword as a terrible answer to a good question. The minute any implementation of this hit the real world it'd fail. Teenagers are very good at working around technology, whilst anyone other than the average caucasian is likely to get an incorrect age assessment.
- tjpnz 7y ago
  >The MP who said this, Nicky Morgan, has a less than stellar reputation. Based on the Wikipedia article her career has been one long series of blunders.
  - toyg 7y ago
    In the current government, that’s a prerequisite. PM himself sets the tone.
mantap 7y ago
This isn't a serious proposal it's just incoherent ramblings of somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about.

43 points by rahuldottech 7y ago

Taking their cues from China now?

Not even a week after they conceded that their previous such effort was a failure. [0] I recall reading somewhere that the reason for all this nonsense (don't forget this stuff too [1]) may be that the Conservative Party still wants to score points with their ultra-conservative base after legalising gay marriage. I have no doubt that the upshot of this latest effort will be just like the last time: wasting a few million pounds of tax funds, and online mockery. [0] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/16/age_verification_pornblocking_plans_shelved/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/16/age_verification_po... [1] https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/dec/05/uk-pornography-law-scientific-perspective-children-safety https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2014/dec/...

OJFord 7y ago
> ultra-conservative base Surely ultra (anything) base is an oxymoron?
- jdjdjjsjs 7y ago
  Not in this case because the word base here does not refer to a "standard" level of which ultraX would be the opposite, but rather refers to a group of people who support a particular political party. There's nothing oxymoronic about the idea that people with extreme views form the core support of a candidate or party.
hazeii 7y ago
It's likely not a serious proposal; possibly more aimed at shifting people's perception of what's reasonable towards a 'more moderate' solution that would previously have been considered unacceptable. Common technique: have someone not too senior (or retired) propose something outrageous, then introduce what was really planned all along and present it as a compromise.
- Funes- 7y ago
  >more aimed at shifting people's perception of what's reasonable towards a 'more moderate' solution that would previously have been considered unacceptable. Playing with the Overton window [0], then. Interesting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window.
Traster 7y ago
It's important to know that the UK government currently has a majority of around -40. Which means there's going to be an election sooner or later and no legislation can pass. This allows them to announce and pursue popular policy without any intention of fulfilling their promises - since they can't pass their legislation now, and they won't need to answer for their policies for 5 years if they win an election.

croon 7y ago

So either identifying individuals based on a national database mapped against profile and age (privacy nightmare), or guessing age based on looks using a janky ML model (very error prone). What could possibly go wrong...

qubex 7y ago

I presume they expect to do this by means of webcams or uploaded photographs. What’s to prevent somebody holding up an enlarged photograph or sending a JPEG of Uncle Pete?

rwmj 7y ago
Chrome actually makes this easy. It has a literal option "--use-file-for-fake-video-capture" which does what it says. https://webrtc.org/testing/ https://webrtc.org/testing/

fredley 7y ago

Facial recognition is almost universally trivial to defeat as an authentication mechanism. A colleague had a Microsoft Surface with facial unlock. I could hold up my phone to the camera, with his Slack profile picture fullscreen, and it would unlock.

B_S_Johnson 7y ago
I knew my blender project modelling the heads of conservative politicians was going to come in handy one day!
shadowprofile77 7y ago
But how easy would it be to defeat as an identification mechanism in public areas when used for widespread surveillance? That's the real aim of facial recognition for governments I think.
- fredley 7y ago
  https://cvdazzle.com/ https://cvdazzle.com/

dominicr 7y ago

The MP who said this, Nicky Morgan, has a less than stellar reputation. Sounds like the comment was purely a case of throwing out a buzzword as a terrible answer to a good question. The minute any implementation of this hit the real world it'd fail. Teenagers are very good at working around technology, whilst anyone other than the average caucasian is likely to get an incorrect age assessment.

tjpnz 7y ago
>The MP who said this, Nicky Morgan, has a less than stellar reputation. Based on the Wikipedia article her career has been one long series of blunders.
- toyg 7y ago
  In the current government, that’s a prerequisite. PM himself sets the tone.

mantap 7y ago

This isn't a serious proposal it's just incoherent ramblings of somebody who doesn't know what they are talking about.