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I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file

I am the developer in charge of CalFile, the free filing software that everyone asks for here for state of California. https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/index.asp https://www.ftb.ca.gov/file/ways-to-file/online/calfile/inde... I am pushing so hard to make it better and more useful to more people, like being able to add capital gain that is not currently supported. these are the push backs that I am getting: 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a ready return. TurboTax and others hired bunch of lobbyist and put so much pressure on people here and killed the project. People are still afraid and don't want to do too much to grab the attention of their lobbyist! 2. Use of CalFile goes down every year and if trend continues, it would be killed in the near future. when you have your Federal return it is much easier to pay a little more and file your state tax with it too. No body even knows CalFile exist because we don't have a marketing budget to promote it. 3. Even people here buy the argument that free software exist and people could file their taxes for free.

imagiko 7y ago
I thought calfile was the go-to place for cal state taxes? I use it every year and I think it's a fairly nice tool
xivzgrev 7y ago
Dude I salute you. There are so many edge cases to support. For number 2 can you import fed return with calfile? IRS free returns going down too so you are not alone: https://taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/Free_File_Program_Is_Failing_to_Achieve_Objectives https://taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/Free_File_Program_Is_Failin... This is a large reason why Prorepublica keeps digging at this - it’s fucking crazy actual free filing is going down while these paid shenanigan products are holding strong with their ginormous marketing budgets.
- rubicon33 7y ago
  Is it really as simple as that? Budget trumps all? With all due respect to the OP, most state run software operations are complete, utter, garbage. I'd happily pay money to avoid some of the clunky, poor UI/UX, and downright broken web tools that the state of California produces. TurboTax on the other hand, is a relatively nice experience.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    I am tired of for-profit companies hamstringing government using bribes to representatives and funding lobbyists from delivering inexpensive or free services to citizens. If someone wants to pay TurboTax, that is fine. If someone wants to continue to support their efforts to stymie government from delivering said services for free, they should be tarred and feathered. Intuit's tax products are regulatory capture, plain and simple, and deserve no defending.
    - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
      Hm that's been a big issue for maybe 200 years. Should the government start its own companies? What happened to the free market? How does a 'free' government company respond to competition (since they have no pressure to be profitable)?
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        It seems to be working fine in every other country mentioned in this thread where government is free to provide free tax filing services. We do not need bullshit jobs at rent seeking companies that are glorified PDF generators. This is a government feature, not a product.
        JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        So maybe this one should be allowed. Other government competition with private enterprise is not so clear. Paving roads? Providing medicine? Delivering packages? Its been a rocky road.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I'm going to say probably not. I've been pretty disappointed by the attempts of private industry to deliver what should be government infra (tax prep, healthcare, prisons, etc), while I'm super happy with my roads, police, fire, water, sewer, muni fiber, and the USPS (all government provided or backed).
komali2 7y ago
Can you expand on why people are "afraid" of lobbyists? The way you write that makes it sound like the elected officials the lobbyists are trying to convince, are afraid of those same lobbyists. What I assume you meant is that ground troops like you are afraid lobbyists will notice your work and pay more attention to your given team of elected politicians. Can you help me understand?
- jkeuhlen 7y ago
  My intuition is that the elected officials are wary of choosing positions blatantly opposite of the interests the lobbyists are pushing for since the lobbyists could easily support a different candidate and put a lot of money into supporting them. So if you don't behave in the way the powerful lobbyists want, they'll get you kicked out of office.
  - mszkoda 7y ago
    It is exactly this. You look at donations to people from corporations or through lobbyists and they don't look that large, $15-20k and they are getting big bills passed. That $15-20k isn't buying the politician or their vote. The threat to give millions of dollars to the opposing politician that will support them is.
    - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
      There are limits on how much you can donate to a candidate's campaign; however, you can contribute unlimited funds to a PAC, but the PAC's advertisement efforts must be separate from the candidates; they can't be coordinated.
      - cortesoft 7y ago
        Which is perfect for a company like TurboTax who wants to lobby for an issue... they don't care about the candidate, they don't have to coordinate with them at all... they just tell the representative, "if you don't vote my way, we will fund a PAC that will attack you". No candidate coordination, no problem.
khuey 7y ago
Is CalFile an open source project that anyone can contribute to (and if so where do I go?) or is the FTB paying you to develop it as a closed-source product?
- scarejunba 7y ago
  Seconded. I wouldn't mind contributing to it. Maybe if even the rules engine was released.
CobrastanJorji 7y ago
Hey, your work is super interesting and I'm wondering if you have blog posts or papers somewhere that talk about the work involved in writing an application with complicated legal scenarios like this. I assume lawyers and tax professionals are involved with requirements and approving workflows, but I'd love to read about specifics.
spoontoeat 7y ago
Hats off to you, sir. Please don't stop the work you do. Thank you! After college I quickly weaned myself off TurboTax in favor of filing taxes for free with CalFile & Free Fillable Forms with an occasional paper mailing of PDFs that I download and fill out. Much like my opposition to using proprietary word processors, my disdain of paid tax return services that own your data is deep and profound. While a bit painful and limited in feature set, the mere existence of a free filing option is crucial to keeping Intuit from forcing me to pay to file my returns. I find Intuit to be a rather evil company. Filing a return is mandated by law with steep penalties. They intentionally keep the process complicated and convoluted. It's a plundering of everyone's time for unproductive work and overspending on something that should be quick and easy.
- 77pt77 7y ago
  > I find Intuit to be a rather evil company. Heads up then because Intuit is behind Free Fillable Forms. In fact, when confirming phone numbers the calling number is from Intuit. That is not unexpected because they are part of the consortium running Free Fillable Forms. It's just one of those things where the USA lags behind the rest of the world, not being able to file directly with the tax authority.
  - spoontoeat 7y ago
    > Heads up then because Intuit is behind Free Fillable Forms. Thank you for pointing this out, but yes I am aware. It is the only method to electronically file federal taxes for free. If FFF gets dropped due to Intuit's posturing then I will have to resort to paper filing.
onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
Is there anything like this for of the other big states like NY, Texas, and Florida?
- hanniabu 7y ago
  One for NY should be pretty easy, just a splash page showing the user how to send the state everything in their bank account.
ptrklly 7y ago
You're doing great work! I'd love to try it next year. If I do, what do you recommend for filing my federal?
jandrese 7y ago
Virginia used to have free online filing until the tax prep industry got one of their people elected and killed it off. Now our state efile options are more expensive than federal efile options.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
thatfrenchguy 7y ago
Thanks for the info, will definitely use it next year !
8ytecoder 7y ago
Given that open-source has given tough competition to every area of business software what, in your opinion, is the reason for a lack of open-source options to prepare taxes?
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  It's very costly to keep up with changing rules and is mostly a once a year need that has to be bullet proof at filing time. Not a good recipe for open source.
- pfranz 7y ago
  I thought I heard Brazil had open source tax software. It would need to be sponsored and managed by the government in order to work. With open source software the liability is on the end user and a corrupted Word document is a bearable risk. Businesses pay for Red Had and system engineers to reduce the risk their systems won't boot. In addition, tax laws change all the time (and are honestly a bit subjective). I would imagine it would have to be managed by the government (or someone with liability) but accept contributions that would be vetted and approved by the government.
  - epx 7y ago
    It is not open-source. It is free and runs on the major 3 operating systems.
- namdnay 7y ago
  I don’t think your assertion is true. 99% of business software is helped by open source, not in competition with it. Business software = business logic = people gathering requirements. Not really compatible with open source
- paulddraper 7y ago
  > Given that open-source has given tough competition to every area of business software Huh? Open source word processors and spreadsheets? Open source ride hailing apps? Open source social media? Open source chat applications? Open source consumer operating systems? Only in a few niches (mostly developer tools or platforms) is open source giving "tough competition".
mixmastamyk 7y ago
This year it took me over a week of full-time study to file my federal taxes! Correspondingly, my Calfile submission was done in perhaps 20 minutes. Thank you for your service. Reminds me of filing in New Zealand, a breeze. Question, the site and now you mention it does not support Capital gain/loss. I used it anyway, it asked for Adjusted Income from federal return, which takes those into account? So it appears to support it after all. Still confused about that. (I refuse to share my financial info with a malicious third party, and continue to.) One nitpick on the Calfile UI, it puts the "Continue" buttons on the left instead of the right side, which seems odd for folks that read left to right.
thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
You sir, are Awesome! Keep up the good fight! Now that I know about this, I'm definately going to use it. Can I use it for federal too? or do I need to use something else for federal, then I can use CalFile for state.
- cure 7y ago
  > Can I use it for federal too? You may want to read the ProPublica article.
musicale 7y ago
> 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a ready return. TurboTax and others hired bunch of lobbyist and put so much pressure on people here and killed the project. People are still afraid and don't want to do too much to grab the attention of their lobbyist! This is insane. Where are the actual citizens at the negotiating table?
- ddingus 7y ago
  Pushed out by money. There are efforts to fund politics on small donations. I'm on board. Consider looking into them. Honestly, the citizens will have no place at the policy table, until they take some seats on their own dime. So, that's happening. Ideally, other changes can be made, but to even get at those, some power is required.
- LynxInLA 7y ago
  Here's a great podcast that goes over what happened. There is a transcript too. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/episode-760-tax-hero https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/epis...
- cortesoft 7y ago
  This is always the problem with these sorts of things... TurboTax cares a LOT more about this issue than an individual citizen... sure, it costs each citizen $50-100 every year to file their taxes, and they would love to have a free public option... but it is literally THE ENTIRE BUSINESS for TurboTax. They are going to fight so much harder than the people who pay the $100 a year. Concentrated gains and widely distributed costs create this imbalance.
GCA10 7y ago
I had no idea CalFile existed, and I've been filing taxes in California since 1997. Thanks for weighing in! The Pro Publica reporting about TurboTax's efforts to suppress the free option is eye-opening.
excerionsforte 7y ago
Posted it on Twitter. I encourage others to do so too. #freepromotion
anigbrowl 7y ago
Who is/are Turbotax's lobbyist/s? Who do they put most pressure on? It's hard to take action without knowing who the players are.
failrate 7y ago
I tell everyone I know about CalFile. It is awesome. You are awesome for working on it.
winrid 7y ago
Thanks for your work! I've used it and it is simple and just works. No fake loading bars to boot. You literally have office politics. I salute you. The linked site is not mobile friendly BTW as text is cut off (OnePlus 5 Chrome).
samnwa 7y ago
You are amazing for building and running this program. People like you are what give me hope that we can build a better government! Thanks for all you do!

imagiko 7y ago

I thought calfile was the go-to place for cal state taxes? I use it every year and I think it's a fairly nice tool

xivzgrev 7y ago

Dude I salute you. There are so many edge cases to support. For number 2 can you import fed return with calfile? IRS free returns going down too so you are not alone: https://taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/Free_File_Program_Is_Failing_to_Achieve_Objectives https://taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/Free_File_Program_Is_Failin... This is a large reason why Prorepublica keeps digging at this - it’s fucking crazy actual free filing is going down while these paid shenanigan products are holding strong with their ginormous marketing budgets.

rubicon33 7y ago
Is it really as simple as that? Budget trumps all? With all due respect to the OP, most state run software operations are complete, utter, garbage. I'd happily pay money to avoid some of the clunky, poor UI/UX, and downright broken web tools that the state of California produces. TurboTax on the other hand, is a relatively nice experience.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  I am tired of for-profit companies hamstringing government using bribes to representatives and funding lobbyists from delivering inexpensive or free services to citizens. If someone wants to pay TurboTax, that is fine. If someone wants to continue to support their efforts to stymie government from delivering said services for free, they should be tarred and feathered. Intuit's tax products are regulatory capture, plain and simple, and deserve no defending.
  - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
    Hm that's been a big issue for maybe 200 years. Should the government start its own companies? What happened to the free market? How does a 'free' government company respond to competition (since they have no pressure to be profitable)?
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      It seems to be working fine in every other country mentioned in this thread where government is free to provide free tax filing services. We do not need bullshit jobs at rent seeking companies that are glorified PDF generators. This is a government feature, not a product.
      - JoeAltmaier 7y ago
        So maybe this one should be allowed. Other government competition with private enterprise is not so clear. Paving roads? Providing medicine? Delivering packages? Its been a rocky road.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        I'm going to say probably not. I've been pretty disappointed by the attempts of private industry to deliver what should be government infra (tax prep, healthcare, prisons, etc), while I'm super happy with my roads, police, fire, water, sewer, muni fiber, and the USPS (all government provided or backed).

komali2 7y ago

Can you expand on why people are "afraid" of lobbyists? The way you write that makes it sound like the elected officials the lobbyists are trying to convince, are afraid of those same lobbyists. What I assume you meant is that ground troops like you are afraid lobbyists will notice your work and pay more attention to your given team of elected politicians. Can you help me understand?

jkeuhlen 7y ago
My intuition is that the elected officials are wary of choosing positions blatantly opposite of the interests the lobbyists are pushing for since the lobbyists could easily support a different candidate and put a lot of money into supporting them. So if you don't behave in the way the powerful lobbyists want, they'll get you kicked out of office.
- mszkoda 7y ago
  It is exactly this. You look at donations to people from corporations or through lobbyists and they don't look that large, $15-20k and they are getting big bills passed. That $15-20k isn't buying the politician or their vote. The threat to give millions of dollars to the opposing politician that will support them is.
  - JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
    There are limits on how much you can donate to a candidate's campaign; however, you can contribute unlimited funds to a PAC, but the PAC's advertisement efforts must be separate from the candidates; they can't be coordinated.
    - cortesoft 7y ago
      Which is perfect for a company like TurboTax who wants to lobby for an issue... they don't care about the candidate, they don't have to coordinate with them at all... they just tell the representative, "if you don't vote my way, we will fund a PAC that will attack you". No candidate coordination, no problem.

khuey 7y ago

Is CalFile an open source project that anyone can contribute to (and if so where do I go?) or is the FTB paying you to develop it as a closed-source product?

scarejunba 7y ago
Seconded. I wouldn't mind contributing to it. Maybe if even the rules engine was released.

CobrastanJorji 7y ago

Hey, your work is super interesting and I'm wondering if you have blog posts or papers somewhere that talk about the work involved in writing an application with complicated legal scenarios like this. I assume lawyers and tax professionals are involved with requirements and approving workflows, but I'd love to read about specifics.

spoontoeat 7y ago

Hats off to you, sir. Please don't stop the work you do. Thank you! After college I quickly weaned myself off TurboTax in favor of filing taxes for free with CalFile & Free Fillable Forms with an occasional paper mailing of PDFs that I download and fill out. Much like my opposition to using proprietary word processors, my disdain of paid tax return services that own your data is deep and profound. While a bit painful and limited in feature set, the mere existence of a free filing option is crucial to keeping Intuit from forcing me to pay to file my returns. I find Intuit to be a rather evil company. Filing a return is mandated by law with steep penalties. They intentionally keep the process complicated and convoluted. It's a plundering of everyone's time for unproductive work and overspending on something that should be quick and easy.

77pt77 7y ago
> I find Intuit to be a rather evil company. Heads up then because Intuit is behind Free Fillable Forms. In fact, when confirming phone numbers the calling number is from Intuit. That is not unexpected because they are part of the consortium running Free Fillable Forms. It's just one of those things where the USA lags behind the rest of the world, not being able to file directly with the tax authority.
- spoontoeat 7y ago
  > Heads up then because Intuit is behind Free Fillable Forms. Thank you for pointing this out, but yes I am aware. It is the only method to electronically file federal taxes for free. If FFF gets dropped due to Intuit's posturing then I will have to resort to paper filing.

onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago

Is there anything like this for of the other big states like NY, Texas, and Florida?

hanniabu 7y ago
One for NY should be pretty easy, just a splash page showing the user how to send the state everything in their bank account.

ptrklly 7y ago

You're doing great work! I'd love to try it next year. If I do, what do you recommend for filing my federal?

jandrese 7y ago

Virginia used to have free online filing until the tax prep industry got one of their people elected and killed it off. Now our state efile options are more expensive than federal efile options.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

thatfrenchguy 7y ago

Thanks for the info, will definitely use it next year !

8ytecoder 7y ago

Given that open-source has given tough competition to every area of business software what, in your opinion, is the reason for a lack of open-source options to prepare taxes?

mixmastamyk 7y ago
It's very costly to keep up with changing rules and is mostly a once a year need that has to be bullet proof at filing time. Not a good recipe for open source.
pfranz 7y ago
I thought I heard Brazil had open source tax software. It would need to be sponsored and managed by the government in order to work. With open source software the liability is on the end user and a corrupted Word document is a bearable risk. Businesses pay for Red Had and system engineers to reduce the risk their systems won't boot. In addition, tax laws change all the time (and are honestly a bit subjective). I would imagine it would have to be managed by the government (or someone with liability) but accept contributions that would be vetted and approved by the government.
- epx 7y ago
  It is not open-source. It is free and runs on the major 3 operating systems.
namdnay 7y ago
I don’t think your assertion is true. 99% of business software is helped by open source, not in competition with it. Business software = business logic = people gathering requirements. Not really compatible with open source
paulddraper 7y ago
> Given that open-source has given tough competition to every area of business software Huh? Open source word processors and spreadsheets? Open source ride hailing apps? Open source social media? Open source chat applications? Open source consumer operating systems? Only in a few niches (mostly developer tools or platforms) is open source giving "tough competition".

mixmastamyk 7y ago

This year it took me over a week of full-time study to file my federal taxes! Correspondingly, my Calfile submission was done in perhaps 20 minutes. Thank you for your service. Reminds me of filing in New Zealand, a breeze. Question, the site and now you mention it does not support Capital gain/loss. I used it anyway, it asked for Adjusted Income from federal return, which takes those into account? So it appears to support it after all. Still confused about that. (I refuse to share my financial info with a malicious third party, and continue to.) One nitpick on the Calfile UI, it puts the "Continue" buttons on the left instead of the right side, which seems odd for folks that read left to right.

thorwasdfasdf 7y ago

You sir, are Awesome! Keep up the good fight! Now that I know about this, I'm definately going to use it. Can I use it for federal too? or do I need to use something else for federal, then I can use CalFile for state.

cure 7y ago
> Can I use it for federal too? You may want to read the ProPublica article.

musicale 7y ago

> 1. Last time they tried to do what all of you ask, a ready return. TurboTax and others hired bunch of lobbyist and put so much pressure on people here and killed the project. People are still afraid and don't want to do too much to grab the attention of their lobbyist! This is insane. Where are the actual citizens at the negotiating table?

ddingus 7y ago
Pushed out by money. There are efforts to fund politics on small donations. I'm on board. Consider looking into them. Honestly, the citizens will have no place at the policy table, until they take some seats on their own dime. So, that's happening. Ideally, other changes can be made, but to even get at those, some power is required.
LynxInLA 7y ago
Here's a great podcast that goes over what happened. There is a transcript too. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/episode-760-tax-hero https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2017/03/22/521132960/epis...
cortesoft 7y ago
This is always the problem with these sorts of things... TurboTax cares a LOT more about this issue than an individual citizen... sure, it costs each citizen $50-100 every year to file their taxes, and they would love to have a free public option... but it is literally THE ENTIRE BUSINESS for TurboTax. They are going to fight so much harder than the people who pay the $100 a year. Concentrated gains and widely distributed costs create this imbalance.

GCA10 7y ago

I had no idea CalFile existed, and I've been filing taxes in California since 1997. Thanks for weighing in! The Pro Publica reporting about TurboTax's efforts to suppress the free option is eye-opening.

excerionsforte 7y ago

Posted it on Twitter. I encourage others to do so too. #freepromotion

anigbrowl 7y ago

Who is/are Turbotax's lobbyist/s? Who do they put most pressure on? It's hard to take action without knowing who the players are.

failrate 7y ago

I tell everyone I know about CalFile. It is awesome. You are awesome for working on it.

winrid 7y ago

Thanks for your work! I've used it and it is simple and just works. No fake loading bars to boot. You literally have office politics. I salute you. The linked site is not mobile friendly BTW as text is cut off (OnePlus 5 Chrome).

samnwa 7y ago

You are amazing for building and running this program. People like you are what give me hope that we can build a better government! Thanks for all you do!