5 ms·

> I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploitive they are or can be. But if we remo

> I see no reason why these products have a right to exist (and especially not be canonized), especially with how exploitive they are or can be. But if we remove the annual pain of dealing with taxes, then Americans will get complacent and may stop being bothered by having to pay taxes. - The serious ideology of a major American political party vis-a-vis taxes.

_jal 7y ago
This. It is a special combination of sadistic and stupid, an American classic.
- cloverich 7y ago
  I'm skeptical. I think more likely its an intentional diversion to create and protect sophisticated loopholes for high income earners and companies. Its a reasonable strategy that obviously works and clearly explains their otherwise contradictory position.
  - nameless912 7y ago
    Porqúe no los dos? One thing I've learned about American politics is that if there's a sadistic answer that screws the poor and a greedy answer that advantages the rich, often _both_ are correct.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  While sadism and stupidity may be two of the reasons for the US tax code, there are surely others. I also suggest extending special privileges to the rich without making that obvious to the poor, forging a weapon to use against political enemies, creating a huge number of bureaucratic jobs, benefiting a legislator's constituent state at the expense of the others, obfuscating the sources of government revenues, and as a means to launder dirty money into clean. There are almost certainly others.
jimmydddd 7y ago
I sort of agree with the pain guys. I'm currently self employed (US) and have to separately pay estimated taxes quarterly. Since I've been doing this, I'm a lot more sensitive to politicians who want to raise my taxes. Similarly, there is a group in the US whose main goal is to change the law so that employers can't pay your taxes on your behalf. Instead, you would get your full salary, and then have to write a check to pay your taxes. The group believes this would raise tax awareness.
- untog 7y ago
  I'm just imagining applying this principle more broadly. Perhaps before every meal I could be forced to calculate the number of calories in each item, total them up and submit them. Maybe before every car journey I could fill out an estimate of the wear and tear on the tyres, gearbox and suspension, and record that in a big log book of car events. Doesn't seem like a particularly useful way to approach life, to me.
  - abugheratwork 7y ago
    > Perhaps before every meal I could be forced to calculate the number of calories in each item, total them up and submit them. That's called Weight Watchers. The general principle was pretty effective for me. Most people don't keep a log of wear and tear on their car, but we definitely operate airplanes that way. That also seems pretty productive to me. But yeah, it's not the only way to operate. I don't really like the idea of putting more responsibility on people in order to "raise awareness". I take that to really mean someone would like everyone to be more upset about taxes, and would like to make them less convenient to increase upsetness.
  - pfranz 7y ago
    The technique is actually used a lot in diets and budgeting. Manually writing down everything you pay for helps you to notice that taxi you take every day or how often you "splurge" for coffee. Same with calories and that afternoon or midnight snack. But forcing it just wastes everyones time, adds red tape, and additional bureaucracy they purport to rail against.
- 7y ago
SkyBelow 7y ago
I suggest we stop taking taxes out of paychecks and have people pay their full taxes once a year. It would help them see the total amount of taxes they pay. It would have a positive effect on government policy.
- sunderw 7y ago
  It used to be that way in France until last year. The income taxes are now substracted directly on your paycheck. I personnaly prefer having a small amout taken each month than an enormous sum as a one-time payment.
- abustamam 7y ago
  You can already see this on your pay stub (if you look at it, I know I don't bother with mine) In principle I like your suggestion but in actuality I think many Americans will not like their "yearly tax bill." Just think about people who are already living paycheck to paycheck; not saving much, or just overall spending every penny that comes into their bank account. They would be in trouble come April if they had to pay it at that point. Perhaps they could do a monthly installment payment for last year's taxes... And the taxpayer would auto pay once or twice a month when they get paid... But then, we're back to where we started. Tldr in an ideal world where every citizen is disciplined about not spending every penny they get, this suggestion would be great.
  - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
    ...in an ideal world, they wouldn't have to spend every penny, either.
    - abustamam 7y ago
      I would argue in an ideal world money wouldn't exist but I think people have different ideals in that sense :) I know some people _have_ to spend every penny because they need to to survive, but there are also plenty of people who spend every penny because they just have no discipline and buy anything they want without regard to whether or not they could afford it. Ideally the people in the former category would get some sort of welfare. Not sure what, if anything, to do with the people in the latter.

_jal 7y ago

This. It is a special combination of sadistic and stupid, an American classic.

cloverich 7y ago
I'm skeptical. I think more likely its an intentional diversion to create and protect sophisticated loopholes for high income earners and companies. Its a reasonable strategy that obviously works and clearly explains their otherwise contradictory position.
- nameless912 7y ago
  Porqúe no los dos? One thing I've learned about American politics is that if there's a sadistic answer that screws the poor and a greedy answer that advantages the rich, often _both_ are correct.
logfromblammo 7y ago
While sadism and stupidity may be two of the reasons for the US tax code, there are surely others. I also suggest extending special privileges to the rich without making that obvious to the poor, forging a weapon to use against political enemies, creating a huge number of bureaucratic jobs, benefiting a legislator's constituent state at the expense of the others, obfuscating the sources of government revenues, and as a means to launder dirty money into clean. There are almost certainly others.

jimmydddd 7y ago

I sort of agree with the pain guys. I'm currently self employed (US) and have to separately pay estimated taxes quarterly. Since I've been doing this, I'm a lot more sensitive to politicians who want to raise my taxes. Similarly, there is a group in the US whose main goal is to change the law so that employers can't pay your taxes on your behalf. Instead, you would get your full salary, and then have to write a check to pay your taxes. The group believes this would raise tax awareness.

untog 7y ago
I'm just imagining applying this principle more broadly. Perhaps before every meal I could be forced to calculate the number of calories in each item, total them up and submit them. Maybe before every car journey I could fill out an estimate of the wear and tear on the tyres, gearbox and suspension, and record that in a big log book of car events. Doesn't seem like a particularly useful way to approach life, to me.
- abugheratwork 7y ago
  > Perhaps before every meal I could be forced to calculate the number of calories in each item, total them up and submit them. That's called Weight Watchers. The general principle was pretty effective for me. Most people don't keep a log of wear and tear on their car, but we definitely operate airplanes that way. That also seems pretty productive to me. But yeah, it's not the only way to operate. I don't really like the idea of putting more responsibility on people in order to "raise awareness". I take that to really mean someone would like everyone to be more upset about taxes, and would like to make them less convenient to increase upsetness.
- pfranz 7y ago
  The technique is actually used a lot in diets and budgeting. Manually writing down everything you pay for helps you to notice that taxi you take every day or how often you "splurge" for coffee. Same with calories and that afternoon or midnight snack. But forcing it just wastes everyones time, adds red tape, and additional bureaucracy they purport to rail against.
7y ago

SkyBelow 7y ago

I suggest we stop taking taxes out of paychecks and have people pay their full taxes once a year. It would help them see the total amount of taxes they pay. It would have a positive effect on government policy.

sunderw 7y ago
It used to be that way in France until last year. The income taxes are now substracted directly on your paycheck. I personnaly prefer having a small amout taken each month than an enormous sum as a one-time payment.
abustamam 7y ago
You can already see this on your pay stub (if you look at it, I know I don't bother with mine) In principle I like your suggestion but in actuality I think many Americans will not like their "yearly tax bill." Just think about people who are already living paycheck to paycheck; not saving much, or just overall spending every penny that comes into their bank account. They would be in trouble come April if they had to pay it at that point. Perhaps they could do a monthly installment payment for last year's taxes... And the taxpayer would auto pay once or twice a month when they get paid... But then, we're back to where we started. Tldr in an ideal world where every citizen is disciplined about not spending every penny they get, this suggestion would be great.
- HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
  ...in an ideal world, they wouldn't have to spend every penny, either.
  - abustamam 7y ago
    I would argue in an ideal world money wouldn't exist but I think people have different ideals in that sense :) I know some people _have_ to spend every penny because they need to to survive, but there are also plenty of people who spend every penny because they just have no discipline and buy anything they want without regard to whether or not they could afford it. Ideally the people in the former category would get some sort of welfare. Not sure what, if anything, to do with the people in the latter.