9 ms·

All "big tech" are at it, I tried to go to "My Pictures" the other day and microsoft asked me to run my pictures through facial recognition. They said that by

by XJ6 7y ago

All "big tech" are at it, I tried to go to "My Pictures" the other day and microsoft asked me to run my pictures through facial recognition. They said that by consenting I was asserting I had the consent of anyone who appeared in any of my photos or might appear in future which is insane to ask of anyone, no-one can really give that third party consent. Then when I refused they showed me a nag screen which didn't have that warning. Then just yesterday I opened google camera and it really wanted to run face recognition on my photos. I refused. I wanted to try the google podcasts but it was a brick because I had disabled "youtube & web activity" in google account settings. There was no way to subscribe to podcasts without web activity, the application said. And without subscribing there was nothing the app could do. We have a company claiming that because I don't consent to have my web and youtube activity tracked that there's no way I could subscribe to a podcast that I explicitly choose to subscribe to in an application designed for subscribing to podcasts. They don't stop trying, everyone is trying to hoover up all data, all the time.

throw_xyzyz 7y ago
If you're European report them for GDPR violations. A few billion dollars worth of fines will teach them not to do that again.
pintxo 7y ago
In case you are in the EU, this is a pretty clear case of a GDPR violation [1], you might want to raise this with you data protection agency. (They might have no resources to assists you though) [1] https://gdpr.eu/gdpr-consent-requirements/ https://gdpr.eu/gdpr-consent-requirements/, https://gdpr.eu/Recital-42-Burden-of-proof-and-requirements-for-consent/ https://gdpr.eu/Recital-42-Burden-of-proof-and-requirements-...
jacobheric 7y ago
I didn't even realize google had a podcast app. I just installed it and you're right, I can't subscribe to a podcast since I have disabled web activity history. That's a particularly egregious dark pattern.
wowamit 7y ago
I wonder why does Google need the web activity to be turned on for subscribing to the Podcasts? Is there any realistic reasoning for it?
- tagawa 7y ago
  I think this is the part hidden from view when companies claim they let users opt out of data collection. Yes you can opt out, but some (possibly unrelated) features won’t be available to you.
  - wowamit 7y ago
    Yes, but I think when they disable that feature, they must provide some justification that is believable right? I can't think of any for this.
    - SifJar 7y ago
      "if we can't profit from you, you can't use our services" seems like a fairly reasonable justification from a business' perspective
- Cthulhu_ 7y ago
  I know podcasts are generally advertised via an RSS feed on a webpage, but that should be collected by e.g. Google (or Spotify, Apple), not directly by a device.
- a3n 7y ago
  Bait. That's today's reality.
- elliekelly 7y ago
  I bet they run targeted advertising in the podcast based on each listener’s web activity. Now I’m dreading the day YouTube makes the switch and doesn’t let you watch any monetized videos unless you consent to being tracked.
Terretta 7y ago
Not all big tech are at it. The reason you hear a global sigh that “my battery life is terrible!” at every major iOS release, is the photo face to people clustering is done entirely on-device, and which photos are in the cluster is not shared across devices through iCloud. There are several such features where Apple has made life difficult for themselves and the UX a little less seamless for users, in service of not giving themselves all the data. Depending how the politics of privacy go, we could find an aggregation of personal data is not an asset, but a liability. In such an environment, avoiding “hoovering up all data” is both a marketing point, and a reduction of risk exposure.
- prepend 7y ago
  Is Apple the only big tech that’s using AI on device in a privacy protecting way? I appreciate their approach to user functionality that doesn’t dump all my data into a near infinite number of collectors. I also think it’s a neat way of distributed computing to use the cpus of all these phones sleeping at night to crunch stuff is actually cheaper than cloud. I think because the phones are sunk cost that is idle a few hours a day. I miss the BOINC/Folding/SETI at Home clients that used to run as my screensaver and try to do good.
  - dawg- 7y ago
    I think Google is trying to do this with the new update to Assistant - the language model is only 500mb so it can all be processed on the local device. I saw in a blog post somewhere they are trying to get to where individual devices hold data and compile these aggregated profiles on the device, the send the profiles to google for their ad services and other big data stuff
    - prepend 7y ago
      I use Google Translate and that works well with offline datasets to do CV and translation without any network or cloud usage. I don’t think the photo app or assistant app allows this functionality although they likely could.
  - 7y ago
prepend 7y ago
Google has implemented this asshole design/nagware in many products to push unnecessary to me and invasive data collection or functionality I want won’t be available. For example, their maps app on iOS won’t save locations for me unless I sign in an enable web history tracking. I get prompted every time I try to save a pin as well as every once in a while I’m case I change my mind. It’s a free app and it’s Google’s prerogative to try to get value out of it. But it’s annoying to me that they purposely don’t implement client tech (eg, save to app cache, device cookie not tied to individual) that would make their app better for me. And that they nag with no way to turn off forever. Their app already shows ads and makes money for them, they just want more money from the data stream. I also worry about less savvy customers who don’t understand the prompt and unwittingly opt in to data collection that exists forever. The Facebook privacy explosion of last year is an example of users who accepted terms, but didn’t understand them, and got upset when data was used in ways that upset them.
- throwaheyy 7y ago
  That kind of user-hostile bullshit is why I avoid anything and everything associated with Google. Still use search, but trying to break that habit.
  - indigochill 7y ago
    I gotta be that guy and recommend DuckDuckGo. No, it's not always as good as Google search, but it's still usually good enough and when you -really- need Google you can simply add "g!". Every other time, you can rest assured your searches aren't feeding some AI. DDG is at least a reasonable way to ween yourself off Google search rather than needing to go full cold turkey.
    - nvrspyx 7y ago
      As I always do when this is suggested, I recommend using “!s” for Startpage instead of “!g” for Google. Similar to DDG, Startpage provides results in a privacy respecting way, but it uses Google instead of Bing (and Oath), which DDG uses. There’s a common misconception amongst some that using !g on DDG is private, but it’s just a redirect, so Google can gather information from that search. Using !s as the fallback instead will keep your searches private.
jwalton 7y ago
> I wanted to try the google podcasts but it was a brick because I had disabled "youtube & web activity" This is the worst. I have all the privacy settings turned up. In Google Maps on my phone, when I try to set my "Home" location, it tells me I need to turn on "Web and App Activity". What? Why? How are these two things related? Why do you have to track what apps I use and upload this info to Google in order to remember where my house is? It's a bit like a psycho ex; "You want to have my phone number in your phone even though we broke up? Ok, but that means I get to install this camera in your bedroom." The worst part is, it's all lies. If I open up Android Auto it says "12 mins to Home", so maps in Android Auto still knows where "Home" is, even though the Google Maps app claims it can't set home anymore.
- mguerville 7y ago
  I had an app that refused to work unless high accuracy location was turned on. There was a location aspect to it but demanding the highest setting of location sharing was vastly overreaching and I just uninstalled the app.
  - vengefulduck 7y ago
    Out of curiosity how did you know the precision of location the app was asking for? If I recall correctly android gives the same permission prompt for fine and course location.
    - sc8erboy 7y ago
      You get asked it you would like to "Improve location accuracy", just after giving location permissions. http://i.imgur.com/KTkrQvN.png http://i.imgur.com/KTkrQvN.png
- Marsymars 7y ago
  > Why do you have to track what apps I use and upload this info to Google in order to remember where my house is? It's not a real requirement at all. I have "Home" and "Work" remembered from before it was a "requirement". They pop up as quick nav actions when holding the Google Maps homescreen icon on my phone, or when opening a GMaps Driving icon. But I'm not allowed to set the "Home" and "Work" locations in the actual app, so they don't work via text or voice search.
wazoox 7y ago
Aaaand that's why I never uploaded any photo with recognizable individuals (except people performing publicly) to Google Photos...
- TurkishPoptart 7y ago
  I'm sorry to break this to you, but I think all photos taken on Android are automatically uploaded to Google Photos regardless
  - mceachen 7y ago
    Only if you have Google Photos installed and have configured it up to backup your photos and videos.
    - wazoox 7y ago
      Which I obviously didn't do. I only upload manually selected photos to Google Photos, albeit very rarely.
profmonocle 7y ago
> They said that by consenting I was asserting I had the consent of anyone who appeared in any of my photos Does it let you specifically choose which photos to analyze, or does it scan your whole library? If it's the former, facial recognition doesn't sound very useful if I have to go through each of my photos and figure out who's in them beforehand. And if it's the latter, tracking down the strangers in the background of my 2006 vacation photos sounds time-consuming.
celticmusic 7y ago
I don't have any of these issues, but it's because I use my phone solely for making phone calls and GPS. I'm also on IOS, which may have something to do with it.
bonestamp2 7y ago
Side question, are you British? I'm asking because I've just read "hoover up" for the second time in my life and both were in the past week and although I understand the meaning of the phrase and I can guess why it came about, I'm trying to understand where it came from geographically.
- mceachen 7y ago
  That's in my vernacular, but I blame my Proudly British Grandpa.
4140tm 7y ago
Up until recently I couldn't actually do much with google maps on my phone because I have restricted it from using microphone. An error would pop up on every simple address lookup
- what_ever 7y ago
  I don't think your issue was related to microphone permission. I have never allowed the microphone permission to Google Maps and haven't faced any such issues. Disc: Googler.
  - velosol 7y ago
    The GP may also have had microphone and other permissions disabled for Google Play Services which can get cranky with fewer than full permissions.
Tarq0n 7y ago
Google assistant requires a fair amount of data collection turned on to function as well. GDPR enforcement for this stuff will hopefully happen soon. As far as I can tell this stuff is illegal in the EU.

by XJ6 7y ago

throw_xyzyz 7y ago

If you're European report them for GDPR violations. A few billion dollars worth of fines will teach them not to do that again.

pintxo 7y ago

In case you are in the EU, this is a pretty clear case of a GDPR violation [1], you might want to raise this with you data protection agency. (They might have no resources to assists you though) [1] https://gdpr.eu/gdpr-consent-requirements/ https://gdpr.eu/gdpr-consent-requirements/, https://gdpr.eu/Recital-42-Burden-of-proof-and-requirements-for-consent/ https://gdpr.eu/Recital-42-Burden-of-proof-and-requirements-...

jacobheric 7y ago

I didn't even realize google had a podcast app. I just installed it and you're right, I can't subscribe to a podcast since I have disabled web activity history. That's a particularly egregious dark pattern.

wowamit 7y ago

I wonder why does Google need the web activity to be turned on for subscribing to the Podcasts? Is there any realistic reasoning for it?

tagawa 7y ago
I think this is the part hidden from view when companies claim they let users opt out of data collection. Yes you can opt out, but some (possibly unrelated) features won’t be available to you.
- wowamit 7y ago
  Yes, but I think when they disable that feature, they must provide some justification that is believable right? I can't think of any for this.
  - SifJar 7y ago
    "if we can't profit from you, you can't use our services" seems like a fairly reasonable justification from a business' perspective
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
I know podcasts are generally advertised via an RSS feed on a webpage, but that should be collected by e.g. Google (or Spotify, Apple), not directly by a device.
a3n 7y ago
Bait. That's today's reality.
elliekelly 7y ago
I bet they run targeted advertising in the podcast based on each listener’s web activity. Now I’m dreading the day YouTube makes the switch and doesn’t let you watch any monetized videos unless you consent to being tracked.

Terretta 7y ago

Not all big tech are at it. The reason you hear a global sigh that “my battery life is terrible!” at every major iOS release, is the photo face to people clustering is done entirely on-device, and which photos are in the cluster is not shared across devices through iCloud. There are several such features where Apple has made life difficult for themselves and the UX a little less seamless for users, in service of not giving themselves all the data. Depending how the politics of privacy go, we could find an aggregation of personal data is not an asset, but a liability. In such an environment, avoiding “hoovering up all data” is both a marketing point, and a reduction of risk exposure.

prepend 7y ago
Is Apple the only big tech that’s using AI on device in a privacy protecting way? I appreciate their approach to user functionality that doesn’t dump all my data into a near infinite number of collectors. I also think it’s a neat way of distributed computing to use the cpus of all these phones sleeping at night to crunch stuff is actually cheaper than cloud. I think because the phones are sunk cost that is idle a few hours a day. I miss the BOINC/Folding/SETI at Home clients that used to run as my screensaver and try to do good.
- dawg- 7y ago
  I think Google is trying to do this with the new update to Assistant - the language model is only 500mb so it can all be processed on the local device. I saw in a blog post somewhere they are trying to get to where individual devices hold data and compile these aggregated profiles on the device, the send the profiles to google for their ad services and other big data stuff
  - prepend 7y ago
    I use Google Translate and that works well with offline datasets to do CV and translation without any network or cloud usage. I don’t think the photo app or assistant app allows this functionality although they likely could.
- 7y ago

prepend 7y ago

Google has implemented this asshole design/nagware in many products to push unnecessary to me and invasive data collection or functionality I want won’t be available. For example, their maps app on iOS won’t save locations for me unless I sign in an enable web history tracking. I get prompted every time I try to save a pin as well as every once in a while I’m case I change my mind. It’s a free app and it’s Google’s prerogative to try to get value out of it. But it’s annoying to me that they purposely don’t implement client tech (eg, save to app cache, device cookie not tied to individual) that would make their app better for me. And that they nag with no way to turn off forever. Their app already shows ads and makes money for them, they just want more money from the data stream. I also worry about less savvy customers who don’t understand the prompt and unwittingly opt in to data collection that exists forever. The Facebook privacy explosion of last year is an example of users who accepted terms, but didn’t understand them, and got upset when data was used in ways that upset them.

throwaheyy 7y ago
That kind of user-hostile bullshit is why I avoid anything and everything associated with Google. Still use search, but trying to break that habit.
- indigochill 7y ago
  I gotta be that guy and recommend DuckDuckGo. No, it's not always as good as Google search, but it's still usually good enough and when you -really- need Google you can simply add "g!". Every other time, you can rest assured your searches aren't feeding some AI. DDG is at least a reasonable way to ween yourself off Google search rather than needing to go full cold turkey.
  - nvrspyx 7y ago
    As I always do when this is suggested, I recommend using “!s” for Startpage instead of “!g” for Google. Similar to DDG, Startpage provides results in a privacy respecting way, but it uses Google instead of Bing (and Oath), which DDG uses. There’s a common misconception amongst some that using !g on DDG is private, but it’s just a redirect, so Google can gather information from that search. Using !s as the fallback instead will keep your searches private.

jwalton 7y ago

> I wanted to try the google podcasts but it was a brick because I had disabled "youtube & web activity" This is the worst. I have all the privacy settings turned up. In Google Maps on my phone, when I try to set my "Home" location, it tells me I need to turn on "Web and App Activity". What? Why? How are these two things related? Why do you have to track what apps I use and upload this info to Google in order to remember where my house is? It's a bit like a psycho ex; "You want to have my phone number in your phone even though we broke up? Ok, but that means I get to install this camera in your bedroom." The worst part is, it's all lies. If I open up Android Auto it says "12 mins to Home", so maps in Android Auto still knows where "Home" is, even though the Google Maps app claims it can't set home anymore.

mguerville 7y ago
I had an app that refused to work unless high accuracy location was turned on. There was a location aspect to it but demanding the highest setting of location sharing was vastly overreaching and I just uninstalled the app.
- vengefulduck 7y ago
  Out of curiosity how did you know the precision of location the app was asking for? If I recall correctly android gives the same permission prompt for fine and course location.
  - sc8erboy 7y ago
    You get asked it you would like to "Improve location accuracy", just after giving location permissions. http://i.imgur.com/KTkrQvN.png http://i.imgur.com/KTkrQvN.png
Marsymars 7y ago
> Why do you have to track what apps I use and upload this info to Google in order to remember where my house is? It's not a real requirement at all. I have "Home" and "Work" remembered from before it was a "requirement". They pop up as quick nav actions when holding the Google Maps homescreen icon on my phone, or when opening a GMaps Driving icon. But I'm not allowed to set the "Home" and "Work" locations in the actual app, so they don't work via text or voice search.

wazoox 7y ago

Aaaand that's why I never uploaded any photo with recognizable individuals (except people performing publicly) to Google Photos...

TurkishPoptart 7y ago
I'm sorry to break this to you, but I think all photos taken on Android are automatically uploaded to Google Photos regardless
- mceachen 7y ago
  Only if you have Google Photos installed and have configured it up to backup your photos and videos.
  - wazoox 7y ago
    Which I obviously didn't do. I only upload manually selected photos to Google Photos, albeit very rarely.

profmonocle 7y ago

> They said that by consenting I was asserting I had the consent of anyone who appeared in any of my photos Does it let you specifically choose which photos to analyze, or does it scan your whole library? If it's the former, facial recognition doesn't sound very useful if I have to go through each of my photos and figure out who's in them beforehand. And if it's the latter, tracking down the strangers in the background of my 2006 vacation photos sounds time-consuming.

celticmusic 7y ago

I don't have any of these issues, but it's because I use my phone solely for making phone calls and GPS. I'm also on IOS, which may have something to do with it.

bonestamp2 7y ago

Side question, are you British? I'm asking because I've just read "hoover up" for the second time in my life and both were in the past week and although I understand the meaning of the phrase and I can guess why it came about, I'm trying to understand where it came from geographically.

mceachen 7y ago
That's in my vernacular, but I blame my Proudly British Grandpa.

4140tm 7y ago

Up until recently I couldn't actually do much with google maps on my phone because I have restricted it from using microphone. An error would pop up on every simple address lookup

what_ever 7y ago
I don't think your issue was related to microphone permission. I have never allowed the microphone permission to Google Maps and haven't faced any such issues. Disc: Googler.
- velosol 7y ago
  The GP may also have had microphone and other permissions disabled for Google Play Services which can get cranky with fewer than full permissions.

Tarq0n 7y ago

Google assistant requires a fair amount of data collection turned on to function as well. GDPR enforcement for this stuff will hopefully happen soon. As far as I can tell this stuff is illegal in the EU.