4 ms·

Usually putting them in jail. Then at least you don't have residents complaining about homeless tent camps. And the cops feel like they have a tool to "fight h

Usually putting them in jail. Then at least you don't have residents complaining about homeless tent camps. And the cops feel like they have a tool to "fight homelessness." And the added (perceived) incentive of disincentivizing people from coming to your area to be homeless and set up semi-permanent tent camps.

romaaeterna 7y ago
And women and children being able to walk the streets without being harassed is another -- as you might write "(perceived)" -- incentive.
- crooked-v 7y ago
  Unless, of course, those women and children are homeless.
  - ummonk 7y ago
    Nearly all homeless are adult men.
    - jlmorton 7y ago
      Not true. In San Francisco, 35% of homeless residents in the last point-in-time count identified as female, and another six percent identified as another non-male gender.
      - sieabahlpark 7y ago
        Some would say 75% is the majority.
        sieabahlpark 7y ago
        65%, unable to edit my comment for some reason.
        aidenn0 7y ago
        Few would say 65% is "Nearly all"
    - aidenn0 7y ago
      39% of homeless are female 20% of all homeless are under 18 Source: https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2018-AHAR-Part-1.pdf https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2018-AHAR-P... Page 11.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
      That isn’t true. First, you have to distinguish between the visible and invisible homeless. Homeless women who aren’t mentally ill or heavily into drugs are very likely to get access to a shelter at least, so you wouldn’t notice them (the same is true for men as well, just less so). And then you have mentally ill or heavily drug addicted women, you notice these in LA also. It isn’t clear to me why there are more men in this category than women, but perhaps they get more family or social support as well.
      - ummonk 7y ago
        The invisible homeless aren't the ones who would get harassed by the police.
  - romaaeterna 7y ago
    No. If there are children in any of these encampments, I would say that they need to especially be broken up. Homelessness in modern America is to a great degree elective. People need to be harassed off the streets and into shelters for their own welfare -- especially children -- or involuntarily committed.
    - playeren 7y ago
      > Homelessness in modern America is to a great degree elective How did you determine that?
      - romaaeterna 7y ago
        I've worked on getting some individual people into assisted living situations, etc. The problem has never been lack of beds. It has been the individual involved. There are a few good books on all of this. It's not a resource problem in the Western world. It's a mental illness and drug problem. EDIT: I should say rather, the major problem has never been lack of beds. Sometimes I've had to wait a few days, etc., or choose a different place. Nobody has infinite money. But it has never been a major or insurmountable problem.
        playeren 7y ago
        Assuming your limited interface is representative, and there in fact always are more usable beds available than homeless people (I doubt this, but only have anecdotal evidence to the contrary from working with homeless people) - how does that translate into 'homelessness is elective'? I've seen a multitude of reasons that destroy peoples lives, and makes them unable to be a productive, rent-paying, law-abiding citizen. Also, bed availability aside - I've heard many who are scared of the available shelters, due to threats, drug dealing or harassment from other ill-fortuned inhabitants. Maybe we just define 'elective' differently. I urge anybody who is worried about homelessness in their area, to try and dig deeper into possible root-causes for wide-spread homelessness. Maybe each and every individual homeless person have made bad or even catastrophic decisions that led them to their calamity, but if that really is the case (just for arguments sake - my experience says otherwise for most cases), why are so many making these bad decisions? Let's treat systemic problems as such, and make sure that we don't only focus on relieving symptoms, and maybe we find homelessness to be a solvable problem.
dv_dt 7y ago
On one hand, I do understand these are tools to "do something" that may occasionally help, on the other hand, sometimes tools when available become overused and I think are fundamentally inadequate for addressing the root (very difficult) problem. I think LA has actually in recent years brought online a lot of added housing for the homeless, but unfortunately the numbers of homeless seems to also be surging upwards; and in almost all US cities it seems.

romaaeterna 7y ago

And women and children being able to walk the streets without being harassed is another -- as you might write "(perceived)" -- incentive.

crooked-v 7y ago
Unless, of course, those women and children are homeless.
- ummonk 7y ago
  Nearly all homeless are adult men.
  - jlmorton 7y ago
    Not true. In San Francisco, 35% of homeless residents in the last point-in-time count identified as female, and another six percent identified as another non-male gender.
    - sieabahlpark 7y ago
      Some would say 75% is the majority.
      - sieabahlpark 7y ago
        65%, unable to edit my comment for some reason.
      - aidenn0 7y ago
        Few would say 65% is "Nearly all"
  - aidenn0 7y ago
    39% of homeless are female 20% of all homeless are under 18 Source: https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2018-AHAR-Part-1.pdf https://www.hudexchange.info/resources/documents/2018-AHAR-P... Page 11.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    That isn’t true. First, you have to distinguish between the visible and invisible homeless. Homeless women who aren’t mentally ill or heavily into drugs are very likely to get access to a shelter at least, so you wouldn’t notice them (the same is true for men as well, just less so). And then you have mentally ill or heavily drug addicted women, you notice these in LA also. It isn’t clear to me why there are more men in this category than women, but perhaps they get more family or social support as well.
    - ummonk 7y ago
      The invisible homeless aren't the ones who would get harassed by the police.
- romaaeterna 7y ago
  No. If there are children in any of these encampments, I would say that they need to especially be broken up. Homelessness in modern America is to a great degree elective. People need to be harassed off the streets and into shelters for their own welfare -- especially children -- or involuntarily committed.
  - playeren 7y ago
    > Homelessness in modern America is to a great degree elective How did you determine that?
    - romaaeterna 7y ago
      I've worked on getting some individual people into assisted living situations, etc. The problem has never been lack of beds. It has been the individual involved. There are a few good books on all of this. It's not a resource problem in the Western world. It's a mental illness and drug problem. EDIT: I should say rather, the major problem has never been lack of beds. Sometimes I've had to wait a few days, etc., or choose a different place. Nobody has infinite money. But it has never been a major or insurmountable problem.
      - playeren 7y ago
        Assuming your limited interface is representative, and there in fact always are more usable beds available than homeless people (I doubt this, but only have anecdotal evidence to the contrary from working with homeless people) - how does that translate into 'homelessness is elective'? I've seen a multitude of reasons that destroy peoples lives, and makes them unable to be a productive, rent-paying, law-abiding citizen. Also, bed availability aside - I've heard many who are scared of the available shelters, due to threats, drug dealing or harassment from other ill-fortuned inhabitants. Maybe we just define 'elective' differently. I urge anybody who is worried about homelessness in their area, to try and dig deeper into possible root-causes for wide-spread homelessness. Maybe each and every individual homeless person have made bad or even catastrophic decisions that led them to their calamity, but if that really is the case (just for arguments sake - my experience says otherwise for most cases), why are so many making these bad decisions? Let's treat systemic problems as such, and make sure that we don't only focus on relieving symptoms, and maybe we find homelessness to be a solvable problem.

dv_dt 7y ago

On one hand, I do understand these are tools to "do something" that may occasionally help, on the other hand, sometimes tools when available become overused and I think are fundamentally inadequate for addressing the root (very difficult) problem. I think LA has actually in recent years brought online a lot of added housing for the homeless, but unfortunately the numbers of homeless seems to also be surging upwards; and in almost all US cities it seems.