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Magic Mushrooms Can Help Smokers Kick the Habit

348 points by howard941 7y ago

MichaelApproved 7y ago
> New research shows that psilocybin might be an effective treatment for diseases such as depression and addiction. While the work is still in its early stages, there are signs that psilocybin might help addicts shake the habit by causing the brain to talk with itself in different ways. Interesting to see it might also help with depression because antidepressants are sometime prescribed to help quit smoking.
- Piezoid 7y ago
  Depression can be seen as protection mechanism that reinforce rigid thought patterns in order to avoid runaway (psychosis, mania). So anything tiping the balance in the other direction allows to deprogram those behaviors. This is related to the "entropic brain" theory, see https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00020/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.0002...
potatofarmer45 7y ago
If the active ingredient really temporarily "rewires" the brain such that multiple "rewires" can help break dependency, it should be tested with video game addiction. I know many people I grew up with who have a WoW addiction that is highly detrimental to their lives.
- acollins1331 7y ago
  I just started playing WoW classic. People always ask me how I like it, seeing as I never played WoW before. I would describe it as not very fun, but incredibly addicting. I'd continue to elaborate but I have to go do some leatherworking...
  - easymodex 7y ago
    Oh god I fell into the trap as well. I hardly played games in the past few years and strictly single player ones which aren't infinite time sinks. Then WoW classic came and I just wanted to chill out a bit and experience some nostalgia. Now I'm hooked again, doing about 3 hours a day while also juggling work, family life etc. BTW, the fun starts when they introduce PvP honor and battlegrounds. Other than that it's a true grindfest. As for the OP topic, shrooms are great, got me out of depression during my late teens. No preparation or anything, just took some with friends and embraced it with positive curiousity.
  - Smithalicious 7y ago
    Heh, my experience was the opposite. I played it for a bit (having played WoW during burning crusade through cataclysm) and had a lot of fun, but I stopped because it didn't hook me enough into playing long sessions or logging in every day. If there's one game that does "not very fun (occasionally) but incredibly addicting" for me it's Old School Runescape. I started playing Runescape in 2006 and I still play in 2019 (with some breaks in between). I'm 21. That's most of my life.
- orasis 7y ago
  I would recommend Michael Pollan’s “How to change your mind”. One of the theories is that addiction is a disease of mental rigidity and psychedelics loosens that rigidity.
  - potatofarmer45 7y ago
    Just downloaded and starting to read. Looks super promising. Thanks so much for the tip
- sjg007 7y ago
  It should in theory. I assume there will be clinical trials in the future if there is continued success with the alcohol and other ones.
MichaelApproved 7y ago
Time and Time again, we see how stupid the war on drugs had been for humanity. Look at all the negatives: - Racist origins which disproportionately targeted minorities. It allowed police and prosecutorial discretion to arrest more minorities and give them longer sentences. - Stopped medical progress. Finally a flood of studies are showing us mushrooms, marijuana, MDMA, acid, and more have positive medical uses. - Gave law enforcement massive budgets which are further inflated with asset forfeiture. We see SWAT raids based on lies ruining lives and killing innocent people. - Prevented people from relaxing with safer alternatives to alcohol. The war on drugs needs to end. No drug should be illegal. Drugs are a health concern, not criminal. Replace public funding of law enforcement with public finding of rehab and other mental/physical healthcare services. It'll be cheaper and society would be healthier.
- ToonDoom 7y ago
  There is a decent Netflix show that discussed how America’s war efforts and their fear that they could diminish their control over the people in effect put back research in the area back half a century. https://www.netflix.com/title/81098586?s=i&trkid=13747225 https://www.netflix.com/title/81098586?s=i&trkid=13747225
  - MichaelApproved 7y ago
    Thanks. I'm assuming you're talking about the "psychedelics" episode but I noticed the one about dreams. The synopsis asks: "what’s the significance of dreams and What can they teach us?" From what I understand about dreams, no one has the answer to that question. It seems like they're going to make unfounded claims which makes me worried about their info. Do they tend to pose speculation as truth or are they avoiding pseudoscience?
    - dwiel 7y ago
      Actually, they did a good job of asking the question without posing speculation as truth or quoting pseudoscience. They ask the question, talk about the history of how people have answered in the past, and show what kind of current research is investigating this topic.
AllegedAlec 7y ago
Technically speaking, smoking also helps smokers kick the habit, albeit over a period of 40/50 years or so on average. Good for that woman that this helped her, but, as the article said, it takes you a few months and a whole lot of money to do this, as well as a host of other factors. It's hardly a cure-all.
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
  Who's calming that it is a cure-all? This is one more tool people might be able to use in their struggle to quit. It might be expensive but so is smoking. Between the cost of cigarettes, healthcare, and lost productivity, I'm sure smoking is more expensive.
  - AllegedAlec 7y ago
    > Who's calming that it is a cure-all? I never claimed they claimed it was a cure-all. > It might be expensive but so is smoking. Between the cost of cigarettes, healthcare, and lost productivity, I'm sure smoking is more expensive. I don't know, the cost of the entire treatment wasn't mentioned in this article.
- rocelot 7y ago
  I don't think the broader implication is that it's a cure-all, but there's significant research being done that points to it being far more effective than you may be giving it credit for. I'm at work and can't pull up sources but there's a group at John's Hopkins as well as a number of others - Tim Ferriss has a ton of links I believe, if you feel like looking into it. Speaking anecdotally, I have a number of friends who make very compelling arguments as to how remarkably transformative a single session (with the right intention set and setting) can be to your broader outlook with regard to addiction issues and depression. I wouldn't dismiss it outright or trivialize it just yet.
  - AllegedAlec 7y ago
    > I wouldn't dismiss it outright or trivialize it just yet. I wasn't planning to do that. However, I'm not going to be part of any initial test-set either. I will say, however, that I'm sceptical of the long-term prospects of this technique vis-a-vis remission. Furthermore, I'm not a huge fan of solving problems by taking strong psychotropic drugs.
happythen 7y ago
Awesome. So the last two years I have asked people if they know anyone with shrooms, I really wanted to quit dipping (Copenhagen tobacco), been dipping for 15 years, and heard this really works. No one I knew had any leads, not really shocked by that. But I quit dipping anyways, about 6 months ago. Moral of the story: sometimes your friends don't have illegal drugs and you have to suck it up and do right things the hard way. Second moral: having friends that have drugs would have made all this so much easier.
- ojhughes 7y ago
  Can you not go and pick them where you are? I thought liberty caps were pretty widespread over Europe
  - rantwasp 7y ago
    please don’t just go around picking stuff if you don’t absolutely know what you’re doing. it sounds simple but mistakes are extremely costly
  - AllegedAlec 7y ago
    Just delete this comment. If you're not an expert on mushrooms, picking mushrooms is basically playing Russian roulette. Telling people to do so is wildly irresponsible.
    - codr7 7y ago
      Precious few mushrooms are truly poisonous. And I've picked and eaten A LOT of supposedly dangerous ones, as well as other plants; something I suspect most people speaking out on the subject haven't. As a matter of fact, I just got some red amanitas out of the freezer that I picked a few days ago. I'm going to fry them in butter with onions and garlic and make a lovely shroom sandwich. Like amanitas, liberty caps have a very distinctive look. Soak them in water for a while if at all unsure, and only eat a small amount to begin with. The really dangerous stuff is pushed by "science" and the people who come up with this FUD to sell their artificial, truly poisonous and addictive chemical cocktails for awesome profits instead.
phillc73 7y ago
A similar story, with a sample size of one - me. Smoking marijuana helped me quit smoking cigarettes. One of the reasonably well known side effects of smoking pot is sometimes a feeling of intense paranoia. Well, over a period of a few months, I was regularly smoking pot in the evenings and convinced myself that smoking cigarettes would kill me and while stoned I was able to exaggerate these feelings to the point of paranoia (I was thinking very, very hard. Overthinking, another well known side effect). Subsequently, even during the day when I wasn't high, I could still "feel" that paranoia whenever I lit up a cigarette. It took maybe 2-3 months, but eventually I stopped smoking cigarettes all together, and even now almost 20 years later, just one drag starts to make me feel sick. Of course, then I had a pot smoking problem, but that's a different story, which required a different solution.
- npo9 7y ago
  How did you quit heavy cannabis usage?
  - tribeofone 7y ago
    Switch to edibles and gradually reduce the dosage, (which is hard or impossible with smoking). You'll start to crave it less and prefer the more moderate (and different) high from edibles than being stoned from smoking. From this stage, you'll be in a better position to stop altogether if you want too.
  - _jal 7y ago
    When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
  - phillc73 7y ago
    I moved to another country where I didn't have the same network of friends and contacts. Basically, changed my environment and was busy setting up a new life. I didn't move to another country to give up cannabis, it was just a happy co-incidence.
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
JonAtkinson 7y ago
I used another psychedelic (DMT) to self treat my alcoholism. While it is early days still, I am almost 600 days sober. The drug allowed to me introspect and access my mind in a way which was previously blocked. From the perspective it unlocked, it was easy to see the harm I was doing to myself and others. It changed my life.
- mylons 7y ago
  were you having break through experiences, or using a lower dose?
  - JonAtkinson 7y ago
    I think I broke through. But I haven’t done DMT before or since, so I can’t be sure. I definitely went somewhere far away in my perception, I felt like I had travelled a long distance. I was alone and I didn’t note the time though, so it’s possible it only lasted a few second.
    - mylons 7y ago
      there is no thinking you break through. you either see a portal open and jump through it into another universe, or you don’t.
- cf141q5325 7y ago
  Same here, but as a side effect to two doses of magic truffles with a few month break between them (15gr and 25gr respectively at ~120kg. With the weight, remember fresh truffles are a lot heavier then dried shrooms). Granted, i have only been sober for half a year but i dont really have the urge to start again. I didnt think this was an option before. But just describing it as "stopped drinking" also cuts it short, I am happy again for the first time since what feels like childhood, I lost the death wish I was dragging around with me for close to a decade and i am actively working on self reflection and self improvements. I am self aware enough to cut stuff out that makes me unhappy and I actually like myself. If you told me that a year ago i would have laughed in your face, but it gave me a very subtle change of perspective that helped to break out of destructive patterns. With all the upsides, it is however still necessary to warn of the dangers of taking mushrooms without knowing what to expect or taking care for set and setting. If you are thinking about taking psychedelics I can recommend the book "The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide: Safe, Therapeutic, and Sacred Journeys", though you should better be taking a guided trip with someone who has the experience and who you trust.
npo9 7y ago
I think it’s clear that there is a push for magic mushrooms to follow the same path as Cannabis has. It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint) one drug at a time. From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. I’m an adult, I can either make those decisions for myself or hire experts for consultation to help me make the decision.
- SamBam 7y ago
  > From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. I'm of two minds about that. While I agree that I ought to have full autonomy over my own body, at the same time the state has a vested interest in not allowing its population to fall victim to life-destroying drugs, especially when those drugs target the most vulnerable members. Russia's heroin problem has been rising and rising -- apparently 2% of the population are addicted, and much higher rates for certain segments [1] -- and people talk of a "lost" generation. And it may get even worse. I think our social contract with the state involves not allowing that to happen to its population. [1] https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120792687 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120792...
  - tartoran 7y ago
    There's a path to getting people off hard drugs like heroin that the war on drugs doesn't address at all, in fact it exacerbates it. Getting people off hard drugs is not the intended outcome, the war on drugs fills up private prisons with inmates and generates a lot of money. https://www.mic.com/articles/20186/war-on-drugs-how-private-prisons-are-using-the-drug-war-to-generate-more-inmates https://www.mic.com/articles/20186/war-on-drugs-how-private-...
    - SamBam 7y ago
      To be clear, nothing in my comment suggested I support the war on drugs and mass incarceration, rather it was whether the state should have any "say" in my putting hard drugs in my body.
vlutton 7y ago
This actually worked for me. I was a habitual marijuana user for several years and it had very adverse effects on my productivity and motivation, but I couldn't seem to quit. Then I did mushrooms with some friends and when I woke up I simply did not have the desire to smoke anymore. It has been around 12 years and I haven't ever picked it back up.
- QualityReboot 7y ago
  Just as another data point, I actually love weed with no desire to quit, and I too found myself questioning if it's even something I want to keep in my life after a psychedelic experience. One of the weird things about psychedelics is that you'll often think "why don't I take better care of myself?" which often includes not doing the drugs or living the lifestyle that gave you that insight. I also think I enjoy weed less since I've had that experience, which I'm a little disappointed about, but I feel like I have a much better compass for making good decisions now. I replaced grams in blunts with small amounts of whole leaf vaporization after that.
monktastic1 7y ago
Why are they called "magic" mushrooms? Because they remind you that life is, in a sense that we rarely recognize, truly magical. We can adopt the materialist lens and say that they "rewire your brain" -- and in a certain sense, that's of course true. But the crucial point is that experientially, you discover firsthand that life is precious beyond belief -- beyond what the rational mind can contain -- and if cigarettes (or depression...) aren't helping you express that transcendent truth, well, bye bye. And that's not something you easily forget. (And on a grander scale, if our modern way of living isn't helping life thrive, well, maybe it's time to make some loving changes. So I'm glad this research is being done.)
- 7373737373 7y ago
  After a decade of solitude, they helped me realize that I was living in a machine world. It showed me how to love myself, other people and nature again. Yes, it was like magic, a true perspective change, a reintroduction to the human world. It showed me what supreme contentedness and connectedness is after this long time of seeing the world purely in differences - within myself, without myself and in the relationships between me and my environment. Unity. Understanding what love is. Why people go to parks. How they can enjoy life. Why they bond. The beauty of life and subjectivity. When you are in a state of happiness, everything in the past and present seems meaningful and positive in some way, because all of it brought you to this state of being. Even if it was terrible. Even if you didn't dare to consider it. In this state, you can contemplate these things because you are overloaded with serotonin. I advise everyone to use a tripsitter when they experience this, especially for the first time. Respect the drug and it will respect you. If you don't know anyone and think you are alone, do not be afraid, there are people who will do that for you :)
  - zuzuleinen 7y ago
    Thank you for writing this beautiful text :)
  - 09bjb 7y ago
    Well said...thank you.
cat199 7y ago
good news, but: where is the control group for 'going into a special place with the expectation of a spiritual/transformative experience and spending several hours meditating on letting go of the problem'? pretty sure that might also have a nonzero statistical success correlate.
- tasty_freeze 7y ago
  I don't have a citation on hand, but I know one of the early psilocybin experiments (of seminary students, so probably prone to spiritual response) used niacin as the control compound. These were drug-naive test subjects so having no response at all would have unblinded the experiment. Niacin, in enough of a dose, causes tingling, flushing, and heart rate changes.
jcranberry 7y ago
There was a New Yorker article a few years ago about an experimental psilocybin treatment program in NYU and Johns Hopkins. Obviously the numbers were quite small considering government approval would be shaky and all that but it found that it was effective in treating addiction and chronic anxiety. Here it is: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment
tfinster 7y ago
A legal and safe psychedelic retreat center in the Netherlands is https://synthesisretreat.com/ https://synthesisretreat.com/ They have experienced guides/facilitators who can help in case someone is having a challenging experience while on psilocybin, and they have medical staff on premise if anyone needs it. The one caveat to note is that even though I'd say the retreat center is 90% secular/scientific, there's still a 10% remnant of non-scientific woo such as "shamanism" and "energy flows" and "cosmic surgery" that might be a turn off for the atheistic scientist crowd. Worth taking a peek though. (And to second the warnings: please read Michael Pollan's How to Change Your Mind first, and be extremely careful if there's any history of schizophrenia in your family before trying any psychedelic)
- Smithalicious 7y ago
  You might call the shamanic aspect of it "non-scientific woo" but it's important to distinguish between "based on objective reality" and "actually improves your life" here. Many beliefs are one but not the other; in fact, I don't think they're that strongly correlated. Of course, you can't easily alter your own beliefs, so if you have a lot of trouble suspending your disbelief for these things it might still be a turn off for you. But some such things can be useful to "believe" even if you do not think they reflect objective reality.
blackflame 7y ago
For people with addictive personalities often the best treatment is a substitution with something addiction but less harmful
dpcan 7y ago
What's far more terrifying about this practice is that it's a method of reprogramming the way someone thinks. This is "Clockwork Orange" level experimentation. Imagine this being used in concentration camps or interrogations. Getting people to a mental state where they have no choice but to confess or conform because their minds will no longer let them "touch the cigarette". This is very scary.
- empath75 7y ago
  The CIA tried this with MK ULTRA. It doesn't actually work and they abandoned it.
  - Smithalicious 7y ago
    Granted this did supposedly give us the Unabomber so there's reason to be skeptical of such practices. Not to say that what these researchers are doing is MKULTRA.
    - empath75 7y ago
      They didn't use psychedelics on the unabomber.
- bsenftner 7y ago
  I totally agree. This is yet another Capitalists Play to sell a shit load of dangerous crap under the guise of healthcare. Yet another opioid-like crisis in its infancy. Just wait until this is available like pot and watch thousands of people who can't handle bare reality melt down and become burdens. (FWIW, I am experienced.)
  - throw51319 7y ago
    It is true. Less experienced with shrumz, but he had one powerful experience with that in pitch dark in bedroom. Also had a lot of Keta experiences. These will break down weak peoples' ideas of what their reality is... and they prob won't be able to handle that. Opened minded people of course can, because they are used to going with the flow of life.
eyegor 7y ago
To anyone curious, this was studied at a small scale with promising results across several psychedelics. Most notably lsd and mdma (in addition to mushrooms and dmt). I can't seem to locate links to studies at the moment, but I'd suggest reading How to change your mind by Michael Pollan if you're interested in this stuff.
- aidos 7y ago
  I went to a talk last week by Robin carhart-harris who does deep research in this area. The talk itself was pretty complicated but he was saying (I think!) that they believe these drugs cause the brain to go into a state where it becomes more susceptible to change. The same thing happens under extreme stress / trauma. The context of the experience itself then determines how that’s encoded. It’s like it opens the brain up to change.
  - 09bjb 7y ago
    Yes. I've done a lot of reading on the subject trying to explain and begin to understand how the incredibly positive changes I've experienced come about...and "reverse PTSD" seems remarkably close. A guided, safe psychedelic session is similar in that it's a one-time, extremely powerful event that causes a lasting change in the brain--except in this case it's positive and intentional* whereas PTSD is negative and wasn't sought out. * There seems to be a large degree of choice in which changes one wants to take away from the experience but this is a highly subjective, personal conclusion.
krambs 7y ago
I've only done mushrooms once, and I've never wanted a cigarette more in my life than during that experience.
- mikelyons 7y ago
  Why is that? What was causing the craving? Can you elaborate? I've heard that alcohol and cocaine cause this. IME mushrooms cause any low-consciousness activities like smoking/drinking/mindless partying to seem repulsive.
  - QualityReboot 7y ago
    Repulsive is absolutely the right word for this effect. Edit for one more thought on this: it also gave me an appreciation for vegans and vegetarians. I was eating chicken while tripping once and really had some inner conflict over if it was ok to eat another animal. I'll never be a vegetarian, but for a brief moment I understood what all my hippie friends are on about :)
avodonosov 7y ago
Guillotine is very effective against headache...
- mikelyons 7y ago
  Comments like this are effective against growing your understanding of reality. Unless I misunderstood and you were meaning to say that psychedelic experiences can cause you to face your own death and have glimpses of enlightenment, then yes, but the metaphor will be lost on most people.
  - avodonosov 7y ago
    You should ease up on mushrooms. To come up with such an interpretation... I mean literally, guillotine heals headache 100%, but that's not a sufficient reason to practice it. The same with psychedelic mushrooms, even if they work against smoking, it's not necceserily a sufficient reason to use them.
    - RandomTisk 7y ago
      I have a challenge for you: Without google or other external sources, what do YOU think are the top 2 or 3 downsides of using them? Do you even know?
      - avodonosov 7y ago
        I know cases of very tragic results of psychedelic use. So if you think to enlight me on childish bullshit like "the war on drugs is a conspiracy against us, in reality, drugs are very good for people" - if I was some 25 years younger I could consider that, but not today. If you believe there are no downsides, FYI, around a century ago heroin was marketed as a "no downsides" cough suppressant. With time (very soon) the downsides became apparent. This may happen to the psychedelic you now consider safe. The idea to alter one's mind with substances to have more pleasant / interesting / euphoric / hallucinogenic experience is vicious in principle, even if there were no other downsides.
rpmisms 7y ago
Currently quitting nicotine, planning to go back to pipe smoking only when I'm "reset". It's hugely psychological. I don't have the shakes or anything, but I'm drowsy, unalert, and feel slow. I can definitely understand how a shroom trip would "reset" my brain to a non-needy state.
- mikelyons 7y ago
  Why are you planning to go back to pipe smoking?
  - rpmisms 7y ago
    Because it's very non-habit forming, and has a positive effect on my mental well-being, as well as having been correlated to longer life. I formed a vaping habit during a stressful period at work, which is much more nicotine (a pipe gives you the amount of nicotine as about a quarter of a cigarette, delivered over about a half hour), and I plan to go back to my occasional enjoyment of a pipe at home, refraining from using vaping as a coping mechanism.
mikelyons 7y ago
Addicts cannot give up their addictions without fundamentally growing as people, raising their level of consciousness, and boy will psychedelics help you with that...!
mikelyons 7y ago
The culmination of many experiences with mushrooms over the last several years has caused me to become completely sober from marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, and soon I will likely go vegetarian. It seems to help with my psychological and spiritual development and make me more conscious, more purpose driven in life, and more aware of the shadow/devil side of my selfish personality. I've also had a few enlightenment experiences that vastly deepened my understanding of what reality is and why we're here. If anyone's curious; Elon Musk was right when he said: "Love is the answer."
avodonosov 7y ago
Heroin helps from cough: > ... Bayer marketed diacetylmorphine as an over-the-counter drug under the trademark name Heroin.[79] It was developed chiefly as a morphine substitute for cough suppressants that did not have morphine's addictive side-effects. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin
- ianjsikes 7y ago
  Are you... comparing psilocybin to heroin?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
devmunchies 7y ago
I've been learning more about these psychedelics and they seem to have good medical benefits but if anyone is looking for a psychedelic or spiritual breakthrough, similar breakthroughs have been achieved through things like kundalini yoga. Its the same as weight training vs steroids, but of course you can do both. You might not be ready or even know how to process your experience if you just take a drug. (I'm not talking about for medical purposes)
- magic_beans 7y ago
  Kundalini awakenings can be just as harmful (if not MORE) as psychedelics awakenings without proper integration work. It always helps to work with a teacher or guide when traveling through a shadowy psyche.
  - TaylorAlexander 7y ago
    Not disagreeing but clarifying that the big psychedelic medical studies also rely on integration work as it dramatically increases the value of the treatment. This I am paraphrasing from what I have learned from the Psychonauts podcast.
acdanger 7y ago
I have a friend who participated in the JHU study. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to quit smoking and is continuing his two-pack-a-day routine. From what I gather though, 3+ years on, the majority of other participants in his study have managed to quit entirely. Shame he wasn't able to do the same.
krsdcbl 7y ago
I can attest to that. In my early tweens i was in a severely depressive state and would be actively rejecting psychotherapy and just keep going further down the spiral - it all changed after a one or two experiences with magic mushrooms. Despite not using them in a clinical, supervised environment, or in conjunction with therapy, the experience actually had me somehow understand where my depressions came from and helped overcoming them like nothing else did. Of course it didn't "cure me", managing depression has been a way longer journey - but for me it changed my life from "barely able to get up" to a state where i was actually able to do things, start working, live my life and care for myself almost overnight. Literally felt like it had re-wired my brain, never since relapsed into quite such a dark and hopeless state i was living in back then.
- pddpro 7y ago
  >the experience actually had me somehow understand where my depressions came from While I realize that it is an entirely personal matter, I can't help but ask if you can perhaps share some of your insights?
  - krsdcbl 7y ago
    It's really quite hard to explain as anybody who's had psychedelic experiences will probably tell you - but for me it was something like this: A major reason for my depressions where my fathers early death, which i hadn't really processed up to that point. In my first ever trip, some hours in i fell into a state where all that sadness and regret just overpowered my conscience, quite literally myself. Yet at the same time i was calmly observing myself, and i was able to reflect quite deeply onto my emotional state, ironically all whilst beeing utterly unable to control it. This "loss of ego", i could maybe describe it as an "out of body experience" made it incredibly obvious to me how to put my regular emotional state into context and understanding how rejecting the process of grief and feeding my fears of loss had created the state i was living in. Afterwards all those things that had an unshakeable grip on me started to become understandable in a way you'd understand ANOTHER person going through this, reasoning wasn't clouded anymore from my affection. I think that was the tipping point
icandoit 7y ago
I think psilocybin (or patentable tweaks) has a future in medicine. Finally, pharmaceutical ads I wouldn't mind. ;) Psilocybin Lead to (permanent) Increases in the Personality Domain of Openness. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/
ryanmarsh 7y ago
The meme that quitting smoking is hard is manufactured to keep you smoking. Imagine who might benefit from this. If you want to stop smoking there's only one book you need, Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking.
- mikelyons 7y ago
  Joel Spitzer recommends this book and his youtube channel on quitting smoking is also fantastic.
carapace 7y ago
Set and setting. The drug just rattles your cage. I quoted Leary on 'set and setting' the other day on an LSD history thread and mentioned Leonard Orr used to get great results with nothing more exotic than oxygen, so rather than repeat that ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21264919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21264919 ) I'll say this: If you have a modality of therapy that works, it will work without the drug (which, at best, serves as an amplifier and a "convincer".) If you don't have a modality of therapy that works reliably, then it's irresponsible to add drugs and hope for the best. You're banging on the side of the box hoping to reseat the vacuum tubes. The "convincer" effect can be achieved without drugs. Not to be too mysterious but I mean hypnosis. You can e.g. quit smoking using hypnosis. It's not even hard. I'm not against drugs per se I'm just against using them in therapy. It's irresponsible. It's like advocating zeppelins over bikes for personal transport. (I'm great friends with Mushroom, and a little 'shroom tea can be great fun. But cramming 'im into a wee lil pill and then claiming "quit smoking" magic is in it... That's bad science and lousy magick.)
- Matticus_Rex 7y ago
  Except initial trials of MDMA, LSD, and psilocybin in combination with guided therapy show outcomes that the therapy alone just isn't getting.
  - edoo 7y ago
    And if they work it is a whole lot safer than taking symptom management medication.
  - carapace 7y ago
    I never said that drugs don't work. I said they do work as amplifiers and "convincers". Combined with a good set and setting lots of people, myself included, have had "good trips" that include mental emotional and spiritual healing. My concern is when people get confused and think that the "magic" is in the mushroom.
- bromuro 7y ago
  Sure! The olotrophic breathwork developed by Grof for example is a great substitute to LSD therapy.
flycaliguy 7y ago
I had one of the best mushroom trips of my life while smoking a cigar on the roof of a downtown building. Never felt the need to touch one again, it was that good.
imperio59 7y ago
This is like saying "I had a problem with a small chimney fire so I poured ten gallons of gasoline on it and now I don't have a chimney or a fire problem anymore because everything burned down" Seriously no. This is not science. Hallucinogenic drugs also make people psychotic on occasion. Please don't take them, you'll be better off. Take the word of someone who's worked with recovering acid addicts. This shit ruins real lives.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  > Hallucinogenic drugs also make people psychotic on occasion. its like if prozac was a lab made compound where the anecdotes were that some people experienced cognitive benefits and some people wanted to commit suicide. except thats exactly what happened and instead of keeping this a mystery with a few dismissive anecdotes from people with good experiences and people with bad experiences, many trials were done and it came out with warning labels for some people to objectively avoid it. hallucinogenic drugs can be treated with the same standard.
- yspeak 7y ago
  I've seen the same while working in a psychiatric unit. Hallucigenic drugs can trigger psychosis that lasts your lifetime. It's a horrible thing to watch. One reason I'll never use LSD or shrooms despite the claims they are harmless and non-addictive. Shameful to use the playful sounding "Magic* in the headline.
- mistermann 7y ago
  > This is like saying "I had a problem with a small chimney fire so I poured ten gallons of gasoline on it and now I don't have a chimney or a fire problem anymore because everything burned down" In what way is it like that?
Fnoord 7y ago
My own (anecdotal) experience with magic mushrooms underlines this. When I used magic mushrooms I was still a smoker. While on magic mushrooms, I felt much less need to smoke, and when I did it tasted less good. FWIW, artificial sweetened candy also tasted horrible. Also, Zyban (Bupropion) had a similar effect on me regarding smoking cessation aid.
Noos 7y ago
This is the same fundamental dishonesty that pushed for marijuana legalization: the idea that there are "medicinal uses" and the drug should be legalized based on those, pushed by advocates of casual use. Medical use as a trojan horse for recreational/casual. I don't really think using a seriously psychoactive substance for smoking is good at all; it is something that can be done by other means which involve much less risk or even personality change
- aaomidi 7y ago
  The risk is minimal while the risk of continued smoking isn't. The stories of personality change or risks are so overly reported on you forget that millions of people are using psychedelics daily without losing their personality.
  - Noos 7y ago
    the personality change is touted here constantly as a benefit of using it, and its promoted as a source for personal enlightenment. People here are talking about undergoing personal epiphanies and transformations. i don't think it's smart even granting their argument to have a drug with powerful effects being used to solve problems. And this is assuming it wouldn't also amplify and mental issues a person has or cause psychotic breaks, etc.
    - aaomidi 7y ago
      It's not anyone's decision to tell someone what to do or not do in their life. The argument about cost on society also doesn't hold up since we seem to be fine with other "risky" behaviors. Such as extreme sports. Heck we actually encourage it.
- mistermann 7y ago
  Where did you get this idea that there is no medicinal use?
- LocalH 7y ago
  I don't really think using a seriously psychoactive substance for smoking is good at all Why?
pro_scrunchies 7y ago
Yeah, and Heroine can stop you from over-eating. :)
anonymouswacker 7y ago
Using Magic Mushrooms and Ayahuasca both made me more in touch with my body, and pushed me to take care of myself more. I noticed, while on Ayahuasca, that much of my anxiety was due to physical pain (or vice versa!), and that self-medicating with alcohol & tobacco were ultimately causing me more pain and dependence. I was addicted to smoking, but not addicted to alcohol. Now, trying either leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Although, for health reasons, ironically, I am trying to pick up drinking Pinot Noir on occasion!
tryitnow 7y ago
This headline can give newbies the wrong impression. Mindset and environment are just as important as the substance. A a more accurate headline would be "Months of intensive therapy set the stage for Magic Mushrooms to help smokers kick the habit" I know people will see headlines like this, try to "cure" something with psychedelics, end up getting themselves into some sort of trouble and then blame the substances for their problems.
- subsaharancoder 7y ago
  Newbie: I'll trade you lung cancer for mental breakdown
- mikelyons 7y ago
  Doing meditation and other spiritual practices seriously seems to have a potentiation effect on psychedelic outcome IME. My later trips have been much deeper and more profound after lots of this type of work.
_lacroix 7y ago
Makes perfect sense to me. I used IV ketamine infusions to treat anxiety and OCD. The effects I felt are very similar to what the patient in the article (and many other commenters on this post) describes; it's like my brain rewired itself in a way that allowed me to break out of negative patterns. I was suddenly able to consciously tell my brain to stop when I could feel myself going into a familiar anxiety spiral - and it WORKED. I had a sense of clarity about myself and my life that I had never experienced before. As a bonus, I went from being a frequent binge drinker to having literally zero desire to drink at all. It's not like waking up with a hangover and never wanting to drink again; I feel like I did as a child before I'd ever tried it at all and wasn't capable of craving the feeling of being drunk.
foobar_ 7y ago
From what I can say from experience - Psychedelics make you aware of the internal sensation of the body a lot. So smoking actually gives you a negative feeling as opposed to the usual feeling. This negative reinforcement is really useful for kicking the habit. Same with alcohol or even meat products in particular. You can feel becoming stupid eating those. I think microdosing for 30 days is an effective way of kicking off habits or forming new healthy habits.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
These threads are always a trip. So many addicts in here.

348 points by howard941 7y ago

> New research shows that psilocybin might be an effective treatment for diseases such as depression and addiction. While the work is still in its early stages, there are signs that psilocybin might help addicts shake the habit by causing the brain to talk with itself in different ways. Interesting to see it might also help with depression because antidepressants are sometime prescribed to help quit smoking.

Piezoid 7y ago
Depression can be seen as protection mechanism that reinforce rigid thought patterns in order to avoid runaway (psychosis, mania). So anything tiping the balance in the other direction allows to deprogram those behaviors. This is related to the "entropic brain" theory, see https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00020/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.0002...

potatofarmer45 7y ago

If the active ingredient really temporarily "rewires" the brain such that multiple "rewires" can help break dependency, it should be tested with video game addiction. I know many people I grew up with who have a WoW addiction that is highly detrimental to their lives.

acollins1331 7y ago
I just started playing WoW classic. People always ask me how I like it, seeing as I never played WoW before. I would describe it as not very fun, but incredibly addicting. I'd continue to elaborate but I have to go do some leatherworking...
- easymodex 7y ago
  Oh god I fell into the trap as well. I hardly played games in the past few years and strictly single player ones which aren't infinite time sinks. Then WoW classic came and I just wanted to chill out a bit and experience some nostalgia. Now I'm hooked again, doing about 3 hours a day while also juggling work, family life etc. BTW, the fun starts when they introduce PvP honor and battlegrounds. Other than that it's a true grindfest. As for the OP topic, shrooms are great, got me out of depression during my late teens. No preparation or anything, just took some with friends and embraced it with positive curiousity.
- Smithalicious 7y ago
  Heh, my experience was the opposite. I played it for a bit (having played WoW during burning crusade through cataclysm) and had a lot of fun, but I stopped because it didn't hook me enough into playing long sessions or logging in every day. If there's one game that does "not very fun (occasionally) but incredibly addicting" for me it's Old School Runescape. I started playing Runescape in 2006 and I still play in 2019 (with some breaks in between). I'm 21. That's most of my life.
orasis 7y ago
I would recommend Michael Pollan’s “How to change your mind”. One of the theories is that addiction is a disease of mental rigidity and psychedelics loosens that rigidity.
- potatofarmer45 7y ago
  Just downloaded and starting to read. Looks super promising. Thanks so much for the tip
sjg007 7y ago
It should in theory. I assume there will be clinical trials in the future if there is continued success with the alcohol and other ones.

MichaelApproved 7y ago

Time and Time again, we see how stupid the war on drugs had been for humanity. Look at all the negatives: - Racist origins which disproportionately targeted minorities. It allowed police and prosecutorial discretion to arrest more minorities and give them longer sentences. - Stopped medical progress. Finally a flood of studies are showing us mushrooms, marijuana, MDMA, acid, and more have positive medical uses. - Gave law enforcement massive budgets which are further inflated with asset forfeiture. We see SWAT raids based on lies ruining lives and killing innocent people. - Prevented people from relaxing with safer alternatives to alcohol. The war on drugs needs to end. No drug should be illegal. Drugs are a health concern, not criminal. Replace public funding of law enforcement with public finding of rehab and other mental/physical healthcare services. It'll be cheaper and society would be healthier.

ToonDoom 7y ago
There is a decent Netflix show that discussed how America’s war efforts and their fear that they could diminish their control over the people in effect put back research in the area back half a century. https://www.netflix.com/title/81098586?s=i&trkid=13747225 https://www.netflix.com/title/81098586?s=i&trkid=13747225
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
  Thanks. I'm assuming you're talking about the "psychedelics" episode but I noticed the one about dreams. The synopsis asks: "what’s the significance of dreams and What can they teach us?" From what I understand about dreams, no one has the answer to that question. It seems like they're going to make unfounded claims which makes me worried about their info. Do they tend to pose speculation as truth or are they avoiding pseudoscience?
  - dwiel 7y ago
    Actually, they did a good job of asking the question without posing speculation as truth or quoting pseudoscience. They ask the question, talk about the history of how people have answered in the past, and show what kind of current research is investigating this topic.

AllegedAlec 7y ago

Technically speaking, smoking also helps smokers kick the habit, albeit over a period of 40/50 years or so on average. Good for that woman that this helped her, but, as the article said, it takes you a few months and a whole lot of money to do this, as well as a host of other factors. It's hardly a cure-all.

MichaelApproved 7y ago
Who's calming that it is a cure-all? This is one more tool people might be able to use in their struggle to quit. It might be expensive but so is smoking. Between the cost of cigarettes, healthcare, and lost productivity, I'm sure smoking is more expensive.
- AllegedAlec 7y ago
  > Who's calming that it is a cure-all? I never claimed they claimed it was a cure-all. > It might be expensive but so is smoking. Between the cost of cigarettes, healthcare, and lost productivity, I'm sure smoking is more expensive. I don't know, the cost of the entire treatment wasn't mentioned in this article.
rocelot 7y ago
I don't think the broader implication is that it's a cure-all, but there's significant research being done that points to it being far more effective than you may be giving it credit for. I'm at work and can't pull up sources but there's a group at John's Hopkins as well as a number of others - Tim Ferriss has a ton of links I believe, if you feel like looking into it. Speaking anecdotally, I have a number of friends who make very compelling arguments as to how remarkably transformative a single session (with the right intention set and setting) can be to your broader outlook with regard to addiction issues and depression. I wouldn't dismiss it outright or trivialize it just yet.
- AllegedAlec 7y ago
  > I wouldn't dismiss it outright or trivialize it just yet. I wasn't planning to do that. However, I'm not going to be part of any initial test-set either. I will say, however, that I'm sceptical of the long-term prospects of this technique vis-a-vis remission. Furthermore, I'm not a huge fan of solving problems by taking strong psychotropic drugs.

happythen 7y ago

Awesome. So the last two years I have asked people if they know anyone with shrooms, I really wanted to quit dipping (Copenhagen tobacco), been dipping for 15 years, and heard this really works. No one I knew had any leads, not really shocked by that. But I quit dipping anyways, about 6 months ago. Moral of the story: sometimes your friends don't have illegal drugs and you have to suck it up and do right things the hard way. Second moral: having friends that have drugs would have made all this so much easier.

ojhughes 7y ago
Can you not go and pick them where you are? I thought liberty caps were pretty widespread over Europe
- rantwasp 7y ago
  please don’t just go around picking stuff if you don’t absolutely know what you’re doing. it sounds simple but mistakes are extremely costly
- AllegedAlec 7y ago
  Just delete this comment. If you're not an expert on mushrooms, picking mushrooms is basically playing Russian roulette. Telling people to do so is wildly irresponsible.
  - codr7 7y ago
    Precious few mushrooms are truly poisonous. And I've picked and eaten A LOT of supposedly dangerous ones, as well as other plants; something I suspect most people speaking out on the subject haven't. As a matter of fact, I just got some red amanitas out of the freezer that I picked a few days ago. I'm going to fry them in butter with onions and garlic and make a lovely shroom sandwich. Like amanitas, liberty caps have a very distinctive look. Soak them in water for a while if at all unsure, and only eat a small amount to begin with. The really dangerous stuff is pushed by "science" and the people who come up with this FUD to sell their artificial, truly poisonous and addictive chemical cocktails for awesome profits instead.

phillc73 7y ago

A similar story, with a sample size of one - me. Smoking marijuana helped me quit smoking cigarettes. One of the reasonably well known side effects of smoking pot is sometimes a feeling of intense paranoia. Well, over a period of a few months, I was regularly smoking pot in the evenings and convinced myself that smoking cigarettes would kill me and while stoned I was able to exaggerate these feelings to the point of paranoia (I was thinking very, very hard. Overthinking, another well known side effect). Subsequently, even during the day when I wasn't high, I could still "feel" that paranoia whenever I lit up a cigarette. It took maybe 2-3 months, but eventually I stopped smoking cigarettes all together, and even now almost 20 years later, just one drag starts to make me feel sick. Of course, then I had a pot smoking problem, but that's a different story, which required a different solution.

npo9 7y ago
How did you quit heavy cannabis usage?
- tribeofone 7y ago
  Switch to edibles and gradually reduce the dosage, (which is hard or impossible with smoking). You'll start to crave it less and prefer the more moderate (and different) high from edibles than being stoned from smoking. From this stage, you'll be in a better position to stop altogether if you want too.
- _jal 7y ago
  When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
- phillc73 7y ago
  I moved to another country where I didn't have the same network of friends and contacts. Basically, changed my environment and was busy setting up a new life. I didn't move to another country to give up cannabis, it was just a happy co-incidence.
MichaelApproved 7y ago

JonAtkinson 7y ago

I used another psychedelic (DMT) to self treat my alcoholism. While it is early days still, I am almost 600 days sober. The drug allowed to me introspect and access my mind in a way which was previously blocked. From the perspective it unlocked, it was easy to see the harm I was doing to myself and others. It changed my life.

mylons 7y ago
were you having break through experiences, or using a lower dose?
- JonAtkinson 7y ago
  I think I broke through. But I haven’t done DMT before or since, so I can’t be sure. I definitely went somewhere far away in my perception, I felt like I had travelled a long distance. I was alone and I didn’t note the time though, so it’s possible it only lasted a few second.
  - mylons 7y ago
    there is no thinking you break through. you either see a portal open and jump through it into another universe, or you don’t.
cf141q5325 7y ago
Same here, but as a side effect to two doses of magic truffles with a few month break between them (15gr and 25gr respectively at ~120kg. With the weight, remember fresh truffles are a lot heavier then dried shrooms). Granted, i have only been sober for half a year but i dont really have the urge to start again. I didnt think this was an option before. But just describing it as "stopped drinking" also cuts it short, I am happy again for the first time since what feels like childhood, I lost the death wish I was dragging around with me for close to a decade and i am actively working on self reflection and self improvements. I am self aware enough to cut stuff out that makes me unhappy and I actually like myself. If you told me that a year ago i would have laughed in your face, but it gave me a very subtle change of perspective that helped to break out of destructive patterns. With all the upsides, it is however still necessary to warn of the dangers of taking mushrooms without knowing what to expect or taking care for set and setting. If you are thinking about taking psychedelics I can recommend the book "The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide: Safe, Therapeutic, and Sacred Journeys", though you should better be taking a guided trip with someone who has the experience and who you trust.

npo9 7y ago

I think it’s clear that there is a push for magic mushrooms to follow the same path as Cannabis has. It’s very hard to fight the war on drugs (from a personal liberty standpoint) one drug at a time. From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. I’m an adult, I can either make those decisions for myself or hire experts for consultation to help me make the decision.

SamBam 7y ago
> From my political position it’s personally insulting that institutions such as the DEA and FDA tell me what I can and cannot put into my body. I'm of two minds about that. While I agree that I ought to have full autonomy over my own body, at the same time the state has a vested interest in not allowing its population to fall victim to life-destroying drugs, especially when those drugs target the most vulnerable members. Russia's heroin problem has been rising and rising -- apparently 2% of the population are addicted, and much higher rates for certain segments [1] -- and people talk of a "lost" generation. And it may get even worse. I think our social contract with the state involves not allowing that to happen to its population. [1] https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120792687 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120792...
- tartoran 7y ago
  There's a path to getting people off hard drugs like heroin that the war on drugs doesn't address at all, in fact it exacerbates it. Getting people off hard drugs is not the intended outcome, the war on drugs fills up private prisons with inmates and generates a lot of money. https://www.mic.com/articles/20186/war-on-drugs-how-private-prisons-are-using-the-drug-war-to-generate-more-inmates https://www.mic.com/articles/20186/war-on-drugs-how-private-...
  - SamBam 7y ago
    To be clear, nothing in my comment suggested I support the war on drugs and mass incarceration, rather it was whether the state should have any "say" in my putting hard drugs in my body.

vlutton 7y ago

This actually worked for me. I was a habitual marijuana user for several years and it had very adverse effects on my productivity and motivation, but I couldn't seem to quit. Then I did mushrooms with some friends and when I woke up I simply did not have the desire to smoke anymore. It has been around 12 years and I haven't ever picked it back up.

QualityReboot 7y ago
Just as another data point, I actually love weed with no desire to quit, and I too found myself questioning if it's even something I want to keep in my life after a psychedelic experience. One of the weird things about psychedelics is that you'll often think "why don't I take better care of myself?" which often includes not doing the drugs or living the lifestyle that gave you that insight. I also think I enjoy weed less since I've had that experience, which I'm a little disappointed about, but I feel like I have a much better compass for making good decisions now. I replaced grams in blunts with small amounts of whole leaf vaporization after that.

monktastic1 7y ago

Why are they called "magic" mushrooms? Because they remind you that life is, in a sense that we rarely recognize, truly magical. We can adopt the materialist lens and say that they "rewire your brain" -- and in a certain sense, that's of course true. But the crucial point is that experientially, you discover firsthand that life is precious beyond belief -- beyond what the rational mind can contain -- and if cigarettes (or depression...) aren't helping you express that transcendent truth, well, bye bye. And that's not something you easily forget. (And on a grander scale, if our modern way of living isn't helping life thrive, well, maybe it's time to make some loving changes. So I'm glad this research is being done.)

7373737373 7y ago
After a decade of solitude, they helped me realize that I was living in a machine world. It showed me how to love myself, other people and nature again. Yes, it was like magic, a true perspective change, a reintroduction to the human world. It showed me what supreme contentedness and connectedness is after this long time of seeing the world purely in differences - within myself, without myself and in the relationships between me and my environment. Unity. Understanding what love is. Why people go to parks. How they can enjoy life. Why they bond. The beauty of life and subjectivity. When you are in a state of happiness, everything in the past and present seems meaningful and positive in some way, because all of it brought you to this state of being. Even if it was terrible. Even if you didn't dare to consider it. In this state, you can contemplate these things because you are overloaded with serotonin. I advise everyone to use a tripsitter when they experience this, especially for the first time. Respect the drug and it will respect you. If you don't know anyone and think you are alone, do not be afraid, there are people who will do that for you :)
- zuzuleinen 7y ago
  Thank you for writing this beautiful text :)
- 09bjb 7y ago
  Well said...thank you.

cat199 7y ago

good news, but: where is the control group for 'going into a special place with the expectation of a spiritual/transformative experience and spending several hours meditating on letting go of the problem'? pretty sure that might also have a nonzero statistical success correlate.

tasty_freeze 7y ago
I don't have a citation on hand, but I know one of the early psilocybin experiments (of seminary students, so probably prone to spiritual response) used niacin as the control compound. These were drug-naive test subjects so having no response at all would have unblinded the experiment. Niacin, in enough of a dose, causes tingling, flushing, and heart rate changes.

jcranberry 7y ago

There was a New Yorker article a few years ago about an experimental psilocybin treatment program in NYU and Johns Hopkins. Obviously the numbers were quite small considering government approval would be shaky and all that but it found that it was effective in treating addiction and chronic anxiety. Here it is: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/02/09/trip-treatment

tfinster 7y ago

A legal and safe psychedelic retreat center in the Netherlands is https://synthesisretreat.com/ https://synthesisretreat.com/ They have experienced guides/facilitators who can help in case someone is having a challenging experience while on psilocybin, and they have medical staff on premise if anyone needs it. The one caveat to note is that even though I'd say the retreat center is 90% secular/scientific, there's still a 10% remnant of non-scientific woo such as "shamanism" and "energy flows" and "cosmic surgery" that might be a turn off for the atheistic scientist crowd. Worth taking a peek though. (And to second the warnings: please read Michael Pollan's How to Change Your Mind first, and be extremely careful if there's any history of schizophrenia in your family before trying any psychedelic)

Smithalicious 7y ago
You might call the shamanic aspect of it "non-scientific woo" but it's important to distinguish between "based on objective reality" and "actually improves your life" here. Many beliefs are one but not the other; in fact, I don't think they're that strongly correlated. Of course, you can't easily alter your own beliefs, so if you have a lot of trouble suspending your disbelief for these things it might still be a turn off for you. But some such things can be useful to "believe" even if you do not think they reflect objective reality.

blackflame 7y ago

For people with addictive personalities often the best treatment is a substitution with something addiction but less harmful

dpcan 7y ago

What's far more terrifying about this practice is that it's a method of reprogramming the way someone thinks. This is "Clockwork Orange" level experimentation. Imagine this being used in concentration camps or interrogations. Getting people to a mental state where they have no choice but to confess or conform because their minds will no longer let them "touch the cigarette". This is very scary.

empath75 7y ago
The CIA tried this with MK ULTRA. It doesn't actually work and they abandoned it.
- Smithalicious 7y ago
  Granted this did supposedly give us the Unabomber so there's reason to be skeptical of such practices. Not to say that what these researchers are doing is MKULTRA.
  - empath75 7y ago
    They didn't use psychedelics on the unabomber.
bsenftner 7y ago
I totally agree. This is yet another Capitalists Play to sell a shit load of dangerous crap under the guise of healthcare. Yet another opioid-like crisis in its infancy. Just wait until this is available like pot and watch thousands of people who can't handle bare reality melt down and become burdens. (FWIW, I am experienced.)
- throw51319 7y ago
  It is true. Less experienced with shrumz, but he had one powerful experience with that in pitch dark in bedroom. Also had a lot of Keta experiences. These will break down weak peoples' ideas of what their reality is... and they prob won't be able to handle that. Opened minded people of course can, because they are used to going with the flow of life.

eyegor 7y ago

To anyone curious, this was studied at a small scale with promising results across several psychedelics. Most notably lsd and mdma (in addition to mushrooms and dmt). I can't seem to locate links to studies at the moment, but I'd suggest reading How to change your mind by Michael Pollan if you're interested in this stuff.

aidos 7y ago
I went to a talk last week by Robin carhart-harris who does deep research in this area. The talk itself was pretty complicated but he was saying (I think!) that they believe these drugs cause the brain to go into a state where it becomes more susceptible to change. The same thing happens under extreme stress / trauma. The context of the experience itself then determines how that’s encoded. It’s like it opens the brain up to change.
- 09bjb 7y ago
  Yes. I've done a lot of reading on the subject trying to explain and begin to understand how the incredibly positive changes I've experienced come about...and "reverse PTSD" seems remarkably close. A guided, safe psychedelic session is similar in that it's a one-time, extremely powerful event that causes a lasting change in the brain--except in this case it's positive and intentional* whereas PTSD is negative and wasn't sought out. * There seems to be a large degree of choice in which changes one wants to take away from the experience but this is a highly subjective, personal conclusion.

krambs 7y ago

I've only done mushrooms once, and I've never wanted a cigarette more in my life than during that experience.

mikelyons 7y ago
Why is that? What was causing the craving? Can you elaborate? I've heard that alcohol and cocaine cause this. IME mushrooms cause any low-consciousness activities like smoking/drinking/mindless partying to seem repulsive.
- QualityReboot 7y ago
  Repulsive is absolutely the right word for this effect. Edit for one more thought on this: it also gave me an appreciation for vegans and vegetarians. I was eating chicken while tripping once and really had some inner conflict over if it was ok to eat another animal. I'll never be a vegetarian, but for a brief moment I understood what all my hippie friends are on about :)

avodonosov 7y ago

Guillotine is very effective against headache...

mikelyons 7y ago
Comments like this are effective against growing your understanding of reality. Unless I misunderstood and you were meaning to say that psychedelic experiences can cause you to face your own death and have glimpses of enlightenment, then yes, but the metaphor will be lost on most people.
- avodonosov 7y ago
  You should ease up on mushrooms. To come up with such an interpretation... I mean literally, guillotine heals headache 100%, but that's not a sufficient reason to practice it. The same with psychedelic mushrooms, even if they work against smoking, it's not necceserily a sufficient reason to use them.
  - RandomTisk 7y ago
    I have a challenge for you: Without google or other external sources, what do YOU think are the top 2 or 3 downsides of using them? Do you even know?
    - avodonosov 7y ago
      I know cases of very tragic results of psychedelic use. So if you think to enlight me on childish bullshit like "the war on drugs is a conspiracy against us, in reality, drugs are very good for people" - if I was some 25 years younger I could consider that, but not today. If you believe there are no downsides, FYI, around a century ago heroin was marketed as a "no downsides" cough suppressant. With time (very soon) the downsides became apparent. This may happen to the psychedelic you now consider safe. The idea to alter one's mind with substances to have more pleasant / interesting / euphoric / hallucinogenic experience is vicious in principle, even if there were no other downsides.

rpmisms 7y ago

Currently quitting nicotine, planning to go back to pipe smoking only when I'm "reset". It's hugely psychological. I don't have the shakes or anything, but I'm drowsy, unalert, and feel slow. I can definitely understand how a shroom trip would "reset" my brain to a non-needy state.

mikelyons 7y ago
Why are you planning to go back to pipe smoking?
- rpmisms 7y ago
  Because it's very non-habit forming, and has a positive effect on my mental well-being, as well as having been correlated to longer life. I formed a vaping habit during a stressful period at work, which is much more nicotine (a pipe gives you the amount of nicotine as about a quarter of a cigarette, delivered over about a half hour), and I plan to go back to my occasional enjoyment of a pipe at home, refraining from using vaping as a coping mechanism.

mikelyons 7y ago

Addicts cannot give up their addictions without fundamentally growing as people, raising their level of consciousness, and boy will psychedelics help you with that...!

mikelyons 7y ago

The culmination of many experiences with mushrooms over the last several years has caused me to become completely sober from marijuana, alcohol, tobacco, and soon I will likely go vegetarian. It seems to help with my psychological and spiritual development and make me more conscious, more purpose driven in life, and more aware of the shadow/devil side of my selfish personality. I've also had a few enlightenment experiences that vastly deepened my understanding of what reality is and why we're here. If anyone's curious; Elon Musk was right when he said: "Love is the answer."

avodonosov 7y ago

Heroin helps from cough: > ... Bayer marketed diacetylmorphine as an over-the-counter drug under the trademark name Heroin.[79] It was developed chiefly as a morphine substitute for cough suppressants that did not have morphine's addictive side-effects. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

ianjsikes 7y ago
Are you... comparing psilocybin to heroin?
- deleted 7y ago
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devmunchies 7y ago

I've been learning more about these psychedelics and they seem to have good medical benefits but if anyone is looking for a psychedelic or spiritual breakthrough, similar breakthroughs have been achieved through things like kundalini yoga. Its the same as weight training vs steroids, but of course you can do both. You might not be ready or even know how to process your experience if you just take a drug. (I'm not talking about for medical purposes)

magic_beans 7y ago
Kundalini awakenings can be just as harmful (if not MORE) as psychedelics awakenings without proper integration work. It always helps to work with a teacher or guide when traveling through a shadowy psyche.
- TaylorAlexander 7y ago
  Not disagreeing but clarifying that the big psychedelic medical studies also rely on integration work as it dramatically increases the value of the treatment. This I am paraphrasing from what I have learned from the Psychonauts podcast.

acdanger 7y ago

I have a friend who participated in the JHU study. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to quit smoking and is continuing his two-pack-a-day routine. From what I gather though, 3+ years on, the majority of other participants in his study have managed to quit entirely. Shame he wasn't able to do the same.

krsdcbl 7y ago

I can attest to that. In my early tweens i was in a severely depressive state and would be actively rejecting psychotherapy and just keep going further down the spiral - it all changed after a one or two experiences with magic mushrooms. Despite not using them in a clinical, supervised environment, or in conjunction with therapy, the experience actually had me somehow understand where my depressions came from and helped overcoming them like nothing else did. Of course it didn't "cure me", managing depression has been a way longer journey - but for me it changed my life from "barely able to get up" to a state where i was actually able to do things, start working, live my life and care for myself almost overnight. Literally felt like it had re-wired my brain, never since relapsed into quite such a dark and hopeless state i was living in back then.

pddpro 7y ago
>the experience actually had me somehow understand where my depressions came from While I realize that it is an entirely personal matter, I can't help but ask if you can perhaps share some of your insights?
- krsdcbl 7y ago
  It's really quite hard to explain as anybody who's had psychedelic experiences will probably tell you - but for me it was something like this: A major reason for my depressions where my fathers early death, which i hadn't really processed up to that point. In my first ever trip, some hours in i fell into a state where all that sadness and regret just overpowered my conscience, quite literally myself. Yet at the same time i was calmly observing myself, and i was able to reflect quite deeply onto my emotional state, ironically all whilst beeing utterly unable to control it. This "loss of ego", i could maybe describe it as an "out of body experience" made it incredibly obvious to me how to put my regular emotional state into context and understanding how rejecting the process of grief and feeding my fears of loss had created the state i was living in. Afterwards all those things that had an unshakeable grip on me started to become understandable in a way you'd understand ANOTHER person going through this, reasoning wasn't clouded anymore from my affection. I think that was the tipping point

icandoit 7y ago

I think psilocybin (or patentable tweaks) has a future in medicine. Finally, pharmaceutical ads I wouldn't mind. ;) Psilocybin Lead to (permanent) Increases in the Personality Domain of Openness. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3537171/

ryanmarsh 7y ago

The meme that quitting smoking is hard is manufactured to keep you smoking. Imagine who might benefit from this. If you want to stop smoking there's only one book you need, Allen Carr's Easy Way To Stop Smoking.

mikelyons 7y ago
Joel Spitzer recommends this book and his youtube channel on quitting smoking is also fantastic.

carapace 7y ago

Set and setting. The drug just rattles your cage. I quoted Leary on 'set and setting' the other day on an LSD history thread and mentioned Leonard Orr used to get great results with nothing more exotic than oxygen, so rather than repeat that ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21264919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21264919 ) I'll say this: If you have a modality of therapy that works, it will work without the drug (which, at best, serves as an amplifier and a "convincer".) If you don't have a modality of therapy that works reliably, then it's irresponsible to add drugs and hope for the best. You're banging on the side of the box hoping to reseat the vacuum tubes. The "convincer" effect can be achieved without drugs. Not to be too mysterious but I mean hypnosis. You can e.g. quit smoking using hypnosis. It's not even hard. I'm not against drugs per se I'm just against using them in therapy. It's irresponsible. It's like advocating zeppelins over bikes for personal transport. (I'm great friends with Mushroom, and a little 'shroom tea can be great fun. But cramming 'im into a wee lil pill and then claiming "quit smoking" magic is in it... That's bad science and lousy magick.)

Matticus_Rex 7y ago
Except initial trials of MDMA, LSD, and psilocybin in combination with guided therapy show outcomes that the therapy alone just isn't getting.
- edoo 7y ago
  And if they work it is a whole lot safer than taking symptom management medication.
- carapace 7y ago
  I never said that drugs don't work. I said they do work as amplifiers and "convincers". Combined with a good set and setting lots of people, myself included, have had "good trips" that include mental emotional and spiritual healing. My concern is when people get confused and think that the "magic" is in the mushroom.
bromuro 7y ago
Sure! The olotrophic breathwork developed by Grof for example is a great substitute to LSD therapy.

flycaliguy 7y ago

I had one of the best mushroom trips of my life while smoking a cigar on the roof of a downtown building. Never felt the need to touch one again, it was that good.

imperio59 7y ago

This is like saying "I had a problem with a small chimney fire so I poured ten gallons of gasoline on it and now I don't have a chimney or a fire problem anymore because everything burned down" Seriously no. This is not science. Hallucinogenic drugs also make people psychotic on occasion. Please don't take them, you'll be better off. Take the word of someone who's worked with recovering acid addicts. This shit ruins real lives.

rolltiide 7y ago
> Hallucinogenic drugs also make people psychotic on occasion. its like if prozac was a lab made compound where the anecdotes were that some people experienced cognitive benefits and some people wanted to commit suicide. except thats exactly what happened and instead of keeping this a mystery with a few dismissive anecdotes from people with good experiences and people with bad experiences, many trials were done and it came out with warning labels for some people to objectively avoid it. hallucinogenic drugs can be treated with the same standard.
yspeak 7y ago
I've seen the same while working in a psychiatric unit. Hallucigenic drugs can trigger psychosis that lasts your lifetime. It's a horrible thing to watch. One reason I'll never use LSD or shrooms despite the claims they are harmless and non-addictive. Shameful to use the playful sounding "Magic* in the headline.
mistermann 7y ago
> This is like saying "I had a problem with a small chimney fire so I poured ten gallons of gasoline on it and now I don't have a chimney or a fire problem anymore because everything burned down" In what way is it like that?

Fnoord 7y ago

My own (anecdotal) experience with magic mushrooms underlines this. When I used magic mushrooms I was still a smoker. While on magic mushrooms, I felt much less need to smoke, and when I did it tasted less good. FWIW, artificial sweetened candy also tasted horrible. Also, Zyban (Bupropion) had a similar effect on me regarding smoking cessation aid.

Noos 7y ago

This is the same fundamental dishonesty that pushed for marijuana legalization: the idea that there are "medicinal uses" and the drug should be legalized based on those, pushed by advocates of casual use. Medical use as a trojan horse for recreational/casual. I don't really think using a seriously psychoactive substance for smoking is good at all; it is something that can be done by other means which involve much less risk or even personality change

aaomidi 7y ago
The risk is minimal while the risk of continued smoking isn't. The stories of personality change or risks are so overly reported on you forget that millions of people are using psychedelics daily without losing their personality.
- Noos 7y ago
  the personality change is touted here constantly as a benefit of using it, and its promoted as a source for personal enlightenment. People here are talking about undergoing personal epiphanies and transformations. i don't think it's smart even granting their argument to have a drug with powerful effects being used to solve problems. And this is assuming it wouldn't also amplify and mental issues a person has or cause psychotic breaks, etc.
  - aaomidi 7y ago
    It's not anyone's decision to tell someone what to do or not do in their life. The argument about cost on society also doesn't hold up since we seem to be fine with other "risky" behaviors. Such as extreme sports. Heck we actually encourage it.
mistermann 7y ago
Where did you get this idea that there is no medicinal use?
LocalH 7y ago
I don't really think using a seriously psychoactive substance for smoking is good at all Why?

pro_scrunchies 7y ago

Yeah, and Heroine can stop you from over-eating. :)

anonymouswacker 7y ago

Using Magic Mushrooms and Ayahuasca both made me more in touch with my body, and pushed me to take care of myself more. I noticed, while on Ayahuasca, that much of my anxiety was due to physical pain (or vice versa!), and that self-medicating with alcohol & tobacco were ultimately causing me more pain and dependence. I was addicted to smoking, but not addicted to alcohol. Now, trying either leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Although, for health reasons, ironically, I am trying to pick up drinking Pinot Noir on occasion!

tryitnow 7y ago

This headline can give newbies the wrong impression. Mindset and environment are just as important as the substance. A a more accurate headline would be "Months of intensive therapy set the stage for Magic Mushrooms to help smokers kick the habit" I know people will see headlines like this, try to "cure" something with psychedelics, end up getting themselves into some sort of trouble and then blame the substances for their problems.

subsaharancoder 7y ago
Newbie: I'll trade you lung cancer for mental breakdown
mikelyons 7y ago
Doing meditation and other spiritual practices seriously seems to have a potentiation effect on psychedelic outcome IME. My later trips have been much deeper and more profound after lots of this type of work.

_lacroix 7y ago

Makes perfect sense to me. I used IV ketamine infusions to treat anxiety and OCD. The effects I felt are very similar to what the patient in the article (and many other commenters on this post) describes; it's like my brain rewired itself in a way that allowed me to break out of negative patterns. I was suddenly able to consciously tell my brain to stop when I could feel myself going into a familiar anxiety spiral - and it WORKED. I had a sense of clarity about myself and my life that I had never experienced before. As a bonus, I went from being a frequent binge drinker to having literally zero desire to drink at all. It's not like waking up with a hangover and never wanting to drink again; I feel like I did as a child before I'd ever tried it at all and wasn't capable of craving the feeling of being drunk.

foobar_ 7y ago

From what I can say from experience - Psychedelics make you aware of the internal sensation of the body a lot. So smoking actually gives you a negative feeling as opposed to the usual feeling. This negative reinforcement is really useful for kicking the habit. Same with alcohol or even meat products in particular. You can feel becoming stupid eating those. I think microdosing for 30 days is an effective way of kicking off habits or forming new healthy habits.

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clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago

These threads are always a trip. So many addicts in here.