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> However, there is a severe disconnect between the median Amazon employee's experience, and public perception. Not to get into whether Amazon employees have i

> However, there is a severe disconnect between the median Amazon employee's experience, and public perception. Not to get into whether Amazon employees have it good or bad, but using the software engineers to explain the median Amazon employee's experience seems a bit odd. Given that Amazon is widely reported to have well over half a million employees now, and I doubt the software engineers are anywhere near the majority, using them as an example to support the claim that the median employee is not what the public expects doesn't make a lot of sense.

jjeaff 7y ago
Ya, when I read that comment, I thought of the warehouse workers. And I don't think many could argue that they have it so great.
scarface74 7y ago
In that case, should we not count how badly Foxconn workers who manufacturer Apple’s phones have it? While technically they aren’t Apple employees, that’s a distinction without a moral difference. Would the same people who are criticizing how Amazon treats “its” employees change, if Amazon contracted out all of its warehouse workers? Somewhere in every tech company’s supply chain there are some blue collar workers that aren’t treated as well as the white collar workers.
- tw04 7y ago
  Then we can include the same foxconn (or insert odm) employees that build echo devices and Amazon still ends up in the bottom of the barrel relatively speaking.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Yes. Every tech company outsources the dirty work. Facebook even outsources the mentally draining work of monitoring videos for child porn and violence. None of the large tech companies are innocent. We just put more emphasis on struggling factory workers in America than the conditions of people in other countries that “work for” them.
- kbenson 7y ago
  > In that case, should we not count how badly Foxconn workers who manufacturer Apple’s phones have it? First, we do. There's been plenty of stories and Apple has gotten a lot of flak about Foxconn. Rightly so. Second, I really have no idea why you're bringing outsourced companies into this. Amazon is actually employing massive amounts of people. According to a recent NYT article[1], "Amazon had 653,300 employees around the world at the end of June, not including temporary workers and contractors." What's the point of trying to inflate the number when Amazon is already one of the largest employers in the world?
  - wp381640 7y ago
    Would you prefer Amazon outsource their warehouse operation staffing or hire them direct and pay them $15 an hour? Seems people would gripe either way
    - kbenson 7y ago
      > Would you prefer Amazon outsource their warehouse operation staffing or hire them direct and pay them $15 an hour? Nothing I said had anything to do with that... I specifically started my comment with "Not to get into whether Amazon employees have it good or bad" to avoid that conversation, since I don't think I have enough facts to weigh in usefully. My comment was about statistics.
whack 7y ago
To be precise, I meant to say the median software engineer at Amazon. My parent comment had called out "crying software engineers" and anyone who draws a paycheck from Amazon, and I was responding in that context. I'll be honest and admit that I'm not sure what working experiences are like for the warehouse/delivery guys. However, neither does the person I'm responding to. Given how completely wrong they are in describing the median tech worker's experience, they have no credibility when it comes to warehouse workers either. With 500,000+ employees, you can write an entire book of horror stories at Amazon, and you could still be describing only the outliers. You really can't form any judgements without using random-sampling techniques or mass-employee surveys.

jjeaff 7y ago

Ya, when I read that comment, I thought of the warehouse workers. And I don't think many could argue that they have it so great.

scarface74 7y ago

In that case, should we not count how badly Foxconn workers who manufacturer Apple’s phones have it? While technically they aren’t Apple employees, that’s a distinction without a moral difference. Would the same people who are criticizing how Amazon treats “its” employees change, if Amazon contracted out all of its warehouse workers? Somewhere in every tech company’s supply chain there are some blue collar workers that aren’t treated as well as the white collar workers.

tw04 7y ago
Then we can include the same foxconn (or insert odm) employees that build echo devices and Amazon still ends up in the bottom of the barrel relatively speaking.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Yes. Every tech company outsources the dirty work. Facebook even outsources the mentally draining work of monitoring videos for child porn and violence. None of the large tech companies are innocent. We just put more emphasis on struggling factory workers in America than the conditions of people in other countries that “work for” them.
kbenson 7y ago
> In that case, should we not count how badly Foxconn workers who manufacturer Apple’s phones have it? First, we do. There's been plenty of stories and Apple has gotten a lot of flak about Foxconn. Rightly so. Second, I really have no idea why you're bringing outsourced companies into this. Amazon is actually employing massive amounts of people. According to a recent NYT article[1], "Amazon had 653,300 employees around the world at the end of June, not including temporary workers and contractors." What's the point of trying to inflate the number when Amazon is already one of the largest employers in the world?
- wp381640 7y ago
  Would you prefer Amazon outsource their warehouse operation staffing or hire them direct and pay them $15 an hour? Seems people would gripe either way
  - kbenson 7y ago
    > Would you prefer Amazon outsource their warehouse operation staffing or hire them direct and pay them $15 an hour? Nothing I said had anything to do with that... I specifically started my comment with "Not to get into whether Amazon employees have it good or bad" to avoid that conversation, since I don't think I have enough facts to weigh in usefully. My comment was about statistics.

whack 7y ago

To be precise, I meant to say the median software engineer at Amazon. My parent comment had called out "crying software engineers" and anyone who draws a paycheck from Amazon, and I was responding in that context. I'll be honest and admit that I'm not sure what working experiences are like for the warehouse/delivery guys. However, neither does the person I'm responding to. Given how completely wrong they are in describing the median tech worker's experience, they have no credibility when it comes to warehouse workers either. With 500,000+ employees, you can write an entire book of horror stories at Amazon, and you could still be describing only the outliers. You really can't form any judgements without using random-sampling techniques or mass-employee surveys.