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> Amazon's predatory instincts are pointed inwards and downwards, towards employees and vendors... the crying software engineers and all other things I hear abo

by whack 7y ago

> Amazon's predatory instincts are pointed inwards and downwards, towards employees and vendors... the crying software engineers and all other things I hear about them are about running an internally facing extraction economy... The squeeze is being put on those who draw a paycheck (or at least, a profit) from Amazon I know 10+ software engineers at Amazon, including people in their early 30s making close to half-a-million in yearly income, and people working 10-6 M-F. Most of them are very happy with their careers, and I don't know a single person who describes their work-life the way you just did. I'm not disputing that horror stories exist and that some people are being given bad reviews and are being managed out. However, there is a severe disconnect between the median Amazon employee's experience, and public perception.

freehunter 7y ago
It's the same way with my company. In the rare situation I see my employer mentioned on HN, I can't even bother reading the comment. It's all so overwhelmingly negative. Not just on the management, but on the employees as well. HN's perception of the company who signs my paychecks is so wildly different from my own perspective as an employee there that I have a hard time believing anyone on HN who talks about a negative work experience at Company X or Company Y. If the consensus for my company is so wrong, the consensus on every company is highly suspect.
- technofiend 7y ago
  :fistbump: I never bother to mention my employer because when I used to post job openings on Reddit I'd get vilified for even trying.
- philwelch 7y ago
  HN isn’t even bad as far as Internet forums go, but the longer you work in the field, the more and more obvious it becomes that Internet forums are generally full of shit.
  - shard972 7y ago
    Or maybe internet companies are full of shit. People can rationalize a whole lot when it's their lifeblood.
kbenson 7y ago
> However, there is a severe disconnect between the median Amazon employee's experience, and public perception. Not to get into whether Amazon employees have it good or bad, but using the software engineers to explain the median Amazon employee's experience seems a bit odd. Given that Amazon is widely reported to have well over half a million employees now, and I doubt the software engineers are anywhere near the majority, using them as an example to support the claim that the median employee is not what the public expects doesn't make a lot of sense.
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Ya, when I read that comment, I thought of the warehouse workers. And I don't think many could argue that they have it so great.
- scarface74 7y ago
  In that case, should we not count how badly Foxconn workers who manufacturer Apple’s phones have it? While technically they aren’t Apple employees, that’s a distinction without a moral difference. Would the same people who are criticizing how Amazon treats “its” employees change, if Amazon contracted out all of its warehouse workers? Somewhere in every tech company’s supply chain there are some blue collar workers that aren’t treated as well as the white collar workers.
  - tw04 7y ago
    Then we can include the same foxconn (or insert odm) employees that build echo devices and Amazon still ends up in the bottom of the barrel relatively speaking.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Yes. Every tech company outsources the dirty work. Facebook even outsources the mentally draining work of monitoring videos for child porn and violence. None of the large tech companies are innocent. We just put more emphasis on struggling factory workers in America than the conditions of people in other countries that “work for” them.
zapita 7y ago
Do you know many Amazon warehouse workers?
- tvontheradio99 7y ago
  Looks like about 125,000: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+amazon+warehouse+workers+are+there https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+amazon+warehouse+wo...
a_imho 7y ago
I know 10+ software engineers at Amazon, including people in their early 30s making close to half-a-million in yearly income What do these people do?
- dangus 7y ago
  Right? “Well the C-levels think the company is great! No problems here!”
- VRay 7y ago
  I can confirm that Amazon is a stressful place so far as tech jobs go, and I saw a lot of the abusive bullshit people are talking about in this thread. BUT I can also say that it rolled right off my back and had little effect on my friends who are still there after 5+ years The key is to have enough savings that you don't feel like you're trapped there, IMO. And to have some real world perspective. If you've ever experienced real deal poverty then you'll laugh off anything a toxic management chain can throw at you. I'd definitely recommend leaving Amazon ASAP in any case though, unless you're some sort of hardcore ladder-climbing business shark. I got super screwed by a lack of bonuses and raises despite being a "top performer", and it sounds like that's the norm rather than the exception.
tvontheradio99 7y ago
I'm coming up on five years, and I can tell you that the negative shit spewed in this thread is nothing I've experienced at Amazon. Is it possible some people have experienced these things, even in the last 1-5 years? Yes, it is possible. Just telling you that my experience has not been like this at all. As with every company, which manager you have and which organization you are in makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE. Are there people here I wouldn't want to report to? You bet. Is my manager one of them? No. I even switched teams to continue reporting to my manager after they moved to a new role. I feel compelled to say that I am in no way a shill for Amazon and have never been for any company where I've worked (I've worked in tech companies for a few decades now). When my friends complain to me about how awful Amazon is, I cringe hard and do my best to remain balanced in how I view their feedback. Some of the stories I've read and heard about other people's experiences (especially in fulfillment centers) have been super discouraging and made a lot of us angry. Hey, why don't you quit working there in protest? I've worked in a few other major companies, and I can tell you that all of them have done awful shit that made me want to quit in protest--unfortunately, quitting in protest doesn't pay the mortgage.

by whack 7y ago

freehunter 7y ago

It's the same way with my company. In the rare situation I see my employer mentioned on HN, I can't even bother reading the comment. It's all so overwhelmingly negative. Not just on the management, but on the employees as well. HN's perception of the company who signs my paychecks is so wildly different from my own perspective as an employee there that I have a hard time believing anyone on HN who talks about a negative work experience at Company X or Company Y. If the consensus for my company is so wrong, the consensus on every company is highly suspect.

technofiend 7y ago
:fistbump: I never bother to mention my employer because when I used to post job openings on Reddit I'd get vilified for even trying.
philwelch 7y ago
HN isn’t even bad as far as Internet forums go, but the longer you work in the field, the more and more obvious it becomes that Internet forums are generally full of shit.
- shard972 7y ago
  Or maybe internet companies are full of shit. People can rationalize a whole lot when it's their lifeblood.

kbenson 7y ago

> However, there is a severe disconnect between the median Amazon employee's experience, and public perception. Not to get into whether Amazon employees have it good or bad, but using the software engineers to explain the median Amazon employee's experience seems a bit odd. Given that Amazon is widely reported to have well over half a million employees now, and I doubt the software engineers are anywhere near the majority, using them as an example to support the claim that the median employee is not what the public expects doesn't make a lot of sense.

jjeaff 7y ago
Ya, when I read that comment, I thought of the warehouse workers. And I don't think many could argue that they have it so great.
scarface74 7y ago
In that case, should we not count how badly Foxconn workers who manufacturer Apple’s phones have it? While technically they aren’t Apple employees, that’s a distinction without a moral difference. Would the same people who are criticizing how Amazon treats “its” employees change, if Amazon contracted out all of its warehouse workers? Somewhere in every tech company’s supply chain there are some blue collar workers that aren’t treated as well as the white collar workers.
- tw04 7y ago
  Then we can include the same foxconn (or insert odm) employees that build echo devices and Amazon still ends up in the bottom of the barrel relatively speaking.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Yes. Every tech company outsources the dirty work. Facebook even outsources the mentally draining work of monitoring videos for child porn and violence. None of the large tech companies are innocent. We just put more emphasis on struggling factory workers in America than the conditions of people in other countries that “work for” them.

zapita 7y ago

Do you know many Amazon warehouse workers?

tvontheradio99 7y ago
Looks like about 125,000: https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+amazon+warehouse+workers+are+there https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+amazon+warehouse+wo...

a_imho 7y ago

I know 10+ software engineers at Amazon, including people in their early 30s making close to half-a-million in yearly income What do these people do?

dangus 7y ago
Right? “Well the C-levels think the company is great! No problems here!”
VRay 7y ago
I can confirm that Amazon is a stressful place so far as tech jobs go, and I saw a lot of the abusive bullshit people are talking about in this thread. BUT I can also say that it rolled right off my back and had little effect on my friends who are still there after 5+ years The key is to have enough savings that you don't feel like you're trapped there, IMO. And to have some real world perspective. If you've ever experienced real deal poverty then you'll laugh off anything a toxic management chain can throw at you. I'd definitely recommend leaving Amazon ASAP in any case though, unless you're some sort of hardcore ladder-climbing business shark. I got super screwed by a lack of bonuses and raises despite being a "top performer", and it sounds like that's the norm rather than the exception.

tvontheradio99 7y ago

I'm coming up on five years, and I can tell you that the negative shit spewed in this thread is nothing I've experienced at Amazon. Is it possible some people have experienced these things, even in the last 1-5 years? Yes, it is possible. Just telling you that my experience has not been like this at all. As with every company, which manager you have and which organization you are in makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE. Are there people here I wouldn't want to report to? You bet. Is my manager one of them? No. I even switched teams to continue reporting to my manager after they moved to a new role. I feel compelled to say that I am in no way a shill for Amazon and have never been for any company where I've worked (I've worked in tech companies for a few decades now). When my friends complain to me about how awful Amazon is, I cringe hard and do my best to remain balanced in how I view their feedback. Some of the stories I've read and heard about other people's experiences (especially in fulfillment centers) have been super discouraging and made a lot of us angry. Hey, why don't you quit working there in protest? I've worked in a few other major companies, and I can tell you that all of them have done awful shit that made me want to quit in protest--unfortunately, quitting in protest doesn't pay the mortgage.