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I disagree with the premise that facial recognition technology is inherently evil, and that there should be a blanket ban on its use by law enforcement. For exa

by _iyig 7y ago

I disagree with the premise that facial recognition technology is inherently evil, and that there should be a blanket ban on its use by law enforcement. For example: Imagine a system where facial recognition technology supplements, but does not replace, manual recognition. Isn’t it better to guide mugshot lookups with the best available technology rather than wasting hundreds of hours on manual searching? Without treating automatic results as final and authoritative, can’t they still be used to drastically hasten manual look-ups?

mjevans 7y ago
When most people hear "mug shots", they think of photos taking during incarceration: a database of photos from when someone has been convicted of a (implied serious) crime and is being jailed for it. (trivial crimes usually having a monetary and/or community service sentence) The issue at hand is about those who should be presumed to be innocent. The many who are in a crowd, the majority that are probably not at all related to whatever search is happening. I've read science fiction where the opposite extreme happens. Where there's an AI that implicitly interfaces with everyone at all times, but it isn't a surveillance nor advertising state. If anyone does actually do a crime there's an actual sentient witness, no need to track down video, and that witness is also able to get help on the way right away. Further there's no backlog of unprocessed data, no file of all of the various normal day to day things that really aren't important. I could go for a future with benevolent partner AI(s) and no actual surveillance state even though there are cameras and microphones everywhere. I can also see some public spaces (schools, courtrooms, other places people are required to mingle) having observation and storage for a limited (days/weeks) time for manual review in the case of reported incidents. However the power as it currently stands is much more likely to be used for leveraged persecution and partial enforcement against specific people, and classes of people (IE not rich), rather than for all the people.
- _iyig 7y ago
  >However the power as it currently stands is much more likely to be used for leveraged persecution and partial enforcement against specific people, and classes of people (IE not rich), rather than for all the people. I don't see how this is any more or less true of facial recognition than other evidence-gathering technology. >The issue at hand is about those who should be presumed to be innocent. The many who are in a crowd, the majority that are probably not at all related to whatever search is happening. Maybe so, but the laws which are getting passed and proposed as a result of all this journalism are much more broad: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Oakland-bans-use-of-facial-recognition-14101253.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Oakland-bans-use... https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/19/20812032/bernie-sanders-facial-recognition-police-ban-surveillance-reform https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/19/20812032/bernie-sanders-f...
bsenftner 7y ago
What you describe is exactly how FR is deployed. There is no "automatic arrest on recognition" - that is just bad journalism. I write enterprise FR software, BTW, FR is a filter for reducing the manual searching - exactly as you describe.

by _iyig 7y ago

mjevans 7y ago

When most people hear "mug shots", they think of photos taking during incarceration: a database of photos from when someone has been convicted of a (implied serious) crime and is being jailed for it. (trivial crimes usually having a monetary and/or community service sentence) The issue at hand is about those who should be presumed to be innocent. The many who are in a crowd, the majority that are probably not at all related to whatever search is happening. I've read science fiction where the opposite extreme happens. Where there's an AI that implicitly interfaces with everyone at all times, but it isn't a surveillance nor advertising state. If anyone does actually do a crime there's an actual sentient witness, no need to track down video, and that witness is also able to get help on the way right away. Further there's no backlog of unprocessed data, no file of all of the various normal day to day things that really aren't important. I could go for a future with benevolent partner AI(s) and no actual surveillance state even though there are cameras and microphones everywhere. I can also see some public spaces (schools, courtrooms, other places people are required to mingle) having observation and storage for a limited (days/weeks) time for manual review in the case of reported incidents. However the power as it currently stands is much more likely to be used for leveraged persecution and partial enforcement against specific people, and classes of people (IE not rich), rather than for all the people.

_iyig 7y ago
>However the power as it currently stands is much more likely to be used for leveraged persecution and partial enforcement against specific people, and classes of people (IE not rich), rather than for all the people. I don't see how this is any more or less true of facial recognition than other evidence-gathering technology. >The issue at hand is about those who should be presumed to be innocent. The many who are in a crowd, the majority that are probably not at all related to whatever search is happening. Maybe so, but the laws which are getting passed and proposed as a result of all this journalism are much more broad: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Oakland-bans-use-of-facial-recognition-14101253.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Oakland-bans-use... https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/19/20812032/bernie-sanders-facial-recognition-police-ban-surveillance-reform https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/19/20812032/bernie-sanders-f...

bsenftner 7y ago

What you describe is exactly how FR is deployed. There is no "automatic arrest on recognition" - that is just bad journalism. I write enterprise FR software, BTW, FR is a filter for reducing the manual searching - exactly as you describe.