4 ms·

I update my voter registration sometimes twice a year to match the party I most like at the time, It's always been online - easy peasy. I expect to get downvote

I update my voter registration sometimes twice a year to match the party I most like at the time, It's always been online - easy peasy. I expect to get downvoted to hell but I also don't get why showing an ID to vote is such a big deal. After all, I have to look up the numbers in my drivers license to vote. Also, how is it hard to vote? Absentee ballots are totally easy to get. If I was blind, I might have to plan ahead to get the help to do it. Otherwise, no biggie.

wbronitsky 7y ago
US history is why its a big deal to show your ID to vote. Wikipedia has a great summary of the racist policies voter ID laws were made to enforce, and that voter fraud is "vanishingly rare" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St...
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  If only the southern racists during Jim Crow promoted voter suppression tactics as a way of reducing voter fraud like today.
- weberc2 7y ago
  Maybe voter fraud is "vanishingly rare", but that statement in the wikipedia article only links to a NYT article which says: > Academic studies have repeatedly concluded that fraud at the ballot box — the sort that photo identification requirements might reduce — is already vanishingly rare. With no citation. Anyway, "vanishingly rare" could mean that fewer than 1% of votes are fraudulent, but those fraudulent votes could be concentrated in a handful of key counties thereby having a big impact. I'm not arguing in favor of tougher voter ID restrictions but rather in favor of educated discourse.
  - wbronitsky 7y ago
    I want to point out that there is no citation for this straw-man thought experiment. Even the Heritage Foundation, which is incentivized to dig up as much voter fraud as it possibly can, has only found fewer than 1250 individual cases in what seems to be the last decade. This is overwhelmingly lower than the preposterous 1% presented in the above straw-man. https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud Indeed my point was not just about voter fraud, but the racist history of Voter ID laws in the US. My overall point was that there is overwhelming and easily accessible evidence that voter ID laws are racist and that voter fraud is not an issue.
    - weberc2 7y ago
      I can't tell what the "straw man" argument you're referring to. Could you clarify?
_jal 7y ago
> I update my voter registration sometimes twice a year Well, almost nobody else behaves that way. As someone else who does things that are not common, my advice would be to recognize that you are way off the curve and don't universalize your experience.
crooked-v 7y ago
> Also, how is it hard to vote? Absentee ballots are totally easy to get. Certain political factions put a lot of work into making it actively more difficult to use absentee ballots. For example: https://www.apnews.com/ae1c8f1af38f4b4fb0187553be7a6e72 https://www.apnews.com/ae1c8f1af38f4b4fb0187553be7a6e72
fzeroracer 7y ago
Because generally it is very hard to commit voter fraud and adding an ID check does nothing but add an additional hoop for poor people to exercise their constitutional right.
zucker42 7y ago
10% of households don't have a computer and 15% of adults don't have a driver's license. Maybe your experiences don't generalize to the rest of the population. Also, many states require you register to far ahead of time and will arbitrarily purge you from the voting roles. So I guess my point is this is more of issue than you're making it seem.
- weberc2 7y ago
  > 10% of households don't have a computer Does this include smart phones? Seems like percent of people with Internet access would be more relevant. I would think public libraries would also provide a lot of coverage here. > 15% of adults don't have a driver's license What's the statistic for adults with any kind of government issued identification? Surely that's more relevant for this debate than the driver's license statistic?
  - crooked-v 7y ago
    > What's the statistic for adults with any kind of government issued identification? Surely that's more relevant for this debate than the driver's license statistic? A factor to keep in mind here is that it's an established tactic for Republicans to specifically allow alternative IDs used by whites for voting purposes, while banning alternative IDs used by blacks for voting purposes. A North Carolina law was struck down in 2016 specifically for this reason, for example.
    - weberc2 7y ago
      Sure. Let's strike that shit down. Make sure ID requirements are even across the board. Seems like a pretty tractable problem.
      - zucker42 7y ago
        Designing a system where people in power take actions that cause them to be less likely to remain in power is probably one of the most intractable problems in political science. It's why the U.S. has first past the post, why gerrymandering is a problem, and why voter ID laws are racist.

wbronitsky 7y ago

US history is why its a big deal to show your ID to vote. Wikipedia has a great summary of the racist policies voter ID laws were made to enforce, and that voter fraud is "vanishingly rare" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_States#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws_in_the_United_St...

seanmcdirmid 7y ago
If only the southern racists during Jim Crow promoted voter suppression tactics as a way of reducing voter fraud like today.
weberc2 7y ago
Maybe voter fraud is "vanishingly rare", but that statement in the wikipedia article only links to a NYT article which says: > Academic studies have repeatedly concluded that fraud at the ballot box — the sort that photo identification requirements might reduce — is already vanishingly rare. With no citation. Anyway, "vanishingly rare" could mean that fewer than 1% of votes are fraudulent, but those fraudulent votes could be concentrated in a handful of key counties thereby having a big impact. I'm not arguing in favor of tougher voter ID restrictions but rather in favor of educated discourse.
- wbronitsky 7y ago
  I want to point out that there is no citation for this straw-man thought experiment. Even the Heritage Foundation, which is incentivized to dig up as much voter fraud as it possibly can, has only found fewer than 1250 individual cases in what seems to be the last decade. This is overwhelmingly lower than the preposterous 1% presented in the above straw-man. https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud Indeed my point was not just about voter fraud, but the racist history of Voter ID laws in the US. My overall point was that there is overwhelming and easily accessible evidence that voter ID laws are racist and that voter fraud is not an issue.
  - weberc2 7y ago
    I can't tell what the "straw man" argument you're referring to. Could you clarify?

_jal 7y ago

> I update my voter registration sometimes twice a year Well, almost nobody else behaves that way. As someone else who does things that are not common, my advice would be to recognize that you are way off the curve and don't universalize your experience.

crooked-v 7y ago

> Also, how is it hard to vote? Absentee ballots are totally easy to get. Certain political factions put a lot of work into making it actively more difficult to use absentee ballots. For example: https://www.apnews.com/ae1c8f1af38f4b4fb0187553be7a6e72 https://www.apnews.com/ae1c8f1af38f4b4fb0187553be7a6e72

fzeroracer 7y ago

Because generally it is very hard to commit voter fraud and adding an ID check does nothing but add an additional hoop for poor people to exercise their constitutional right.

zucker42 7y ago

10% of households don't have a computer and 15% of adults don't have a driver's license. Maybe your experiences don't generalize to the rest of the population. Also, many states require you register to far ahead of time and will arbitrarily purge you from the voting roles. So I guess my point is this is more of issue than you're making it seem.

weberc2 7y ago
> 10% of households don't have a computer Does this include smart phones? Seems like percent of people with Internet access would be more relevant. I would think public libraries would also provide a lot of coverage here. > 15% of adults don't have a driver's license What's the statistic for adults with any kind of government issued identification? Surely that's more relevant for this debate than the driver's license statistic?
- crooked-v 7y ago
  > What's the statistic for adults with any kind of government issued identification? Surely that's more relevant for this debate than the driver's license statistic? A factor to keep in mind here is that it's an established tactic for Republicans to specifically allow alternative IDs used by whites for voting purposes, while banning alternative IDs used by blacks for voting purposes. A North Carolina law was struck down in 2016 specifically for this reason, for example.
  - weberc2 7y ago
    Sure. Let's strike that shit down. Make sure ID requirements are even across the board. Seems like a pretty tractable problem.
    - zucker42 7y ago
      Designing a system where people in power take actions that cause them to be less likely to remain in power is probably one of the most intractable problems in political science. It's why the U.S. has first past the post, why gerrymandering is a problem, and why voter ID laws are racist.