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Oracle's new licensing requirement for Java is a bit threat to that platform. My company for technical reasons can't switch to OpenJVM so we're going to pay Ora

Oracle's new licensing requirement for Java is a bit threat to that platform. My company for technical reasons can't switch to OpenJVM so we're going to pay Oracle their new licensing money but we're not doing any greenfield Java development and are going to work towards moving our Java applications to another platform. That's an n=1 example but wouldn't be surprised if others end up migrating away, causing longterm harm to Java.

danbtl 7y ago
I'm curious, what are the technical reasons OpenJVM won't work for you?
- csomar 7y ago
  I think he complained about licensing fees?
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    But licensing fees aren't 'technical issues'. You say 'technical' to mean not related to things like licensing.
  - privateSFacct 7y ago
    Some support contracts only support if using x JDK Some software checks the exact JDK and only runs using it etc.
- vips7L 7y ago
  OpenJDK
edp 7y ago
I guess you could use the OpenJDK VM for new projects even if legacy projects are reliant on the Oracle VM.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> My company for technical reasons can't switch to OpenJVM The OpenJDK (not 'OpenJVM', that's not a thing) is literally 100% the same build as Oracle JDK now. There can't be any technical reason.
- hansjorg 7y ago
  It's the same now, but in previous versions there were important differences. Might be legacy code that's hard to make forward compatible.
  - AtlasBarfed 7y ago
    AWS is maintaining separate releases of the JDK to help offset the release shenanigans of Oracle. And there are other concerted efforts to keep control from Oracle in releases and the validity of the JDK. As long as a sufficiently large majority (and AWS is helping here a lot, admittedly) maintain such regimented discipline, the JDK will be ok. Oracle mostly wanted it to sue google for billions. That suit is basically dead, and Oracle knows the JVM isn't worth any large scale revenue.
    - guitarbill 7y ago
      Corretto is decent, but AWS just doesn't get non-Amazon devs/tooling, and so e.g. almost a year later, there is still no alpine docker image: https://github.com/corretto/corretto-8-docker/issues/1 https://github.com/corretto/corretto-8-docker/issues/1
- toyg 7y ago
  It might be the magic "support" word - random openjdk builds don't bring any commercial guarantees. This said, the likes of RedHat, Amazon and Azul are pretty happy to offer those guarantees, and I bet their prices are lower than Big Red O.
  - thenewnewguy 7y ago
    Yes, but that wouldn't be a 'technical' reason, would it?
brianmc21 7y ago
We were told not to download any new versions of java due to oracle trying to extract money for it. Basically we are going to do the same. Purge every oracle product slowly but surely
- BoyRobot777 7y ago
  > We were told <...> Yeah. Say no more... If only you would have looked. Anyhow, Oracle does the following: - Contributes pretty much all of the closed source technologies (or what was originally to become closed source) of the Oracle JDK to OpenJDK, for example giving the community: JDK Flight Recorder; JDK Mission Control; ZGC; …and probably more stuff I can’t think of right now; - Ensures the Oracle JDK and the OpenJDK builds are virtually indistinguishable; - Starts providing a free OpenJDK build (which includes all these donated technologies); - Provides uncountable man hours of maintaining and innovating the Java platform; - Ensures that the community knows where to find the free bits by linking to them, and slaps on a bright yellow warning sign, so that everyone can see that the licensing has changed; And how does the community react, you wonder? Yep, that’s right. “Oracle is the Devil”, “This is a bait and switch operation” etc. Ad nauseum. ONCE AGAIN. You do not need to use OracleJDK. Just use OpenJDK from AdoptOpenJDK.
  - vips7L 7y ago
    Isn't oracle only charging for support of older jdk's as well? If you just stay on the current version path of upgrading every 6 months you shouldn't have to pay for anything at all. Does any language offer free support for years old versions?
  - brianmc21 7y ago
    I am aware... I work in old school financial services there is more red tape and politics with these types of things. I am merely stating what our plans are. We don't really use Java for any new development on our team so the easier solution is to just avoid it. There is a big team that will need to switch over but that isn't our problem. The long short of it is we aren't a booming industry and we do it for the money so one less vendor we have to send a 7 figure check to will only increase the bonus pool.
ako 7y ago
We switched to AdoptOpenJDK, zero problems so far.
twic 7y ago
So rewriting everything onto a new platform is cheaper and less risky than doing the work to break dependencies on Oracle JDK? I know nothing about your situation, but it sounds to me like you've made a mistake somewhere.

danbtl 7y ago

I'm curious, what are the technical reasons OpenJVM won't work for you?

csomar 7y ago
I think he complained about licensing fees?
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  But licensing fees aren't 'technical issues'. You say 'technical' to mean not related to things like licensing.
- privateSFacct 7y ago
  Some support contracts only support if using x JDK Some software checks the exact JDK and only runs using it etc.
vips7L 7y ago
OpenJDK

edp 7y ago

I guess you could use the OpenJDK VM for new projects even if legacy projects are reliant on the Oracle VM.

chrisseaton 7y ago

> My company for technical reasons can't switch to OpenJVM The OpenJDK (not 'OpenJVM', that's not a thing) is literally 100% the same build as Oracle JDK now. There can't be any technical reason.

hansjorg 7y ago
It's the same now, but in previous versions there were important differences. Might be legacy code that's hard to make forward compatible.
- AtlasBarfed 7y ago
  AWS is maintaining separate releases of the JDK to help offset the release shenanigans of Oracle. And there are other concerted efforts to keep control from Oracle in releases and the validity of the JDK. As long as a sufficiently large majority (and AWS is helping here a lot, admittedly) maintain such regimented discipline, the JDK will be ok. Oracle mostly wanted it to sue google for billions. That suit is basically dead, and Oracle knows the JVM isn't worth any large scale revenue.
  - guitarbill 7y ago
    Corretto is decent, but AWS just doesn't get non-Amazon devs/tooling, and so e.g. almost a year later, there is still no alpine docker image: https://github.com/corretto/corretto-8-docker/issues/1 https://github.com/corretto/corretto-8-docker/issues/1
toyg 7y ago
It might be the magic "support" word - random openjdk builds don't bring any commercial guarantees. This said, the likes of RedHat, Amazon and Azul are pretty happy to offer those guarantees, and I bet their prices are lower than Big Red O.
- thenewnewguy 7y ago
  Yes, but that wouldn't be a 'technical' reason, would it?

brianmc21 7y ago

We were told not to download any new versions of java due to oracle trying to extract money for it. Basically we are going to do the same. Purge every oracle product slowly but surely

BoyRobot777 7y ago
> We were told <...> Yeah. Say no more... If only you would have looked. Anyhow, Oracle does the following: - Contributes pretty much all of the closed source technologies (or what was originally to become closed source) of the Oracle JDK to OpenJDK, for example giving the community: JDK Flight Recorder; JDK Mission Control; ZGC; …and probably more stuff I can’t think of right now; - Ensures the Oracle JDK and the OpenJDK builds are virtually indistinguishable; - Starts providing a free OpenJDK build (which includes all these donated technologies); - Provides uncountable man hours of maintaining and innovating the Java platform; - Ensures that the community knows where to find the free bits by linking to them, and slaps on a bright yellow warning sign, so that everyone can see that the licensing has changed; And how does the community react, you wonder? Yep, that’s right. “Oracle is the Devil”, “This is a bait and switch operation” etc. Ad nauseum. ONCE AGAIN. You do not need to use OracleJDK. Just use OpenJDK from AdoptOpenJDK.
- vips7L 7y ago
  Isn't oracle only charging for support of older jdk's as well? If you just stay on the current version path of upgrading every 6 months you shouldn't have to pay for anything at all. Does any language offer free support for years old versions?
- brianmc21 7y ago
  I am aware... I work in old school financial services there is more red tape and politics with these types of things. I am merely stating what our plans are. We don't really use Java for any new development on our team so the easier solution is to just avoid it. There is a big team that will need to switch over but that isn't our problem. The long short of it is we aren't a booming industry and we do it for the money so one less vendor we have to send a 7 figure check to will only increase the bonus pool.

ako 7y ago

We switched to AdoptOpenJDK, zero problems so far.

twic 7y ago

So rewriting everything onto a new platform is cheaper and less risky than doing the work to break dependencies on Oracle JDK? I know nothing about your situation, but it sounds to me like you've made a mistake somewhere.