7 ms·

> In 2016, researchers sent hundreds of résumés to high-end law firms. They were identical in degrees and grade-point averages, but researchers tweaked the extr

by spking 7y ago

> In 2016, researchers sent hundreds of résumés to high-end law firms. They were identical in degrees and grade-point averages, but researchers tweaked the extracurricular activities to make some candidates seem rich (sailing, classical music) and others seem poor (track and field, country music). At the end of the study, upper-class men had been invited to 12 times more interviews than lower-class men. I think that says a lot more about "high-end law firms" than it does about American society at large.

xhgdvjky 7y ago
potentially OT: I wonder how they put music on a law resume edit.. and for that matter sports... uni groups maybe?
- np_tedious 7y ago
  New grads naming their club involvements during college is pretty commonplace, esp if they held leadership position in them
  - tyingq 7y ago
    An "interests" area is somewhat common as well. Also awards..."NCAA rowing championship" or similar.
Ancalagon 7y ago
Side note: I had no idea track and field was considered a “poor” activity!
- nerdponx 7y ago
  It's not "poor" as much as it's "not rich". Also, something to do with skin color.
- koolba 7y ago
  For most of track and field all you need is a half decent pair of shoes. Contrast that to hockey, lacrosse, or polo.
- mikestew 7y ago
  As a former top-level high school/college track and field competitor, I can tell you that track and field has a much more "urban" flavor[0] than, say, sailing. I always took sports such as lacrosse to be "sports white people play", but I guess wealth could be an indicator, too. Dunno, I was never rich enough to find out. [0] Yes, that high-pitched sound you hear is a dog whistle.
  - flukus 7y ago
    Sports can be weird and very fluid indicators. In Australia where I grew up Rugby League was played in public schools and Rugby Union in private ones, so union was associated with wealth. 20 years later union is often played in public schools in the poorest areas by migrants from the pacific islands and the indication is reversing. Every second house a swimming pool there (and beaches), so swimming wasn't seen as a wealthy activity like it is in other parts of the world/country. If you compare between countries it gets even weirder, we inherited almost all sports from England but for them tennis and cricket are they snooty sports, here they're firmly working class. Soccer and basketball for whatever reason seem to hit that egalitarian sweet spot.
- jimbokun 7y ago
  (think of the demographics of many of the people who excel at many of those events...)
Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
I would rather hire a person who likes classical music than the one who likes country/rap/bieber. From my experience, people who prefer classical music are generally smarter.
- eastWestMath 7y ago
  Yeah, see you're part of the problem.
- iamasoftwaredev 7y ago
  So basically no one from a rural area and no black people?
  - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
    There are hardly black people deep in the Ural mountains, where I happen live, near the Siberian border. Anyway. Affinity to classical music (or classical poetry, for that matter) comes not from cultural background, but from a certain level of intellectual sophistication. I don't buy the thesis that some people are born into an oppressed class and can't escape it. In our age education is easily accessible to anyone who has internet. One can learn any language for free, become a developer or a musician or a photographer, all it takes is some will to make yourself learn some marketable skills. Of course, now you'll likely say that some people are oppressed and conditioned to be unable to escape their caste, but it's just nonsense.
    - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
      "I don't buy the thesis that some people are born into an oppressed class and can't escape it." How does this match with the economist that determined that climbing out of poverty requires 20 years of nothing going wrong on average? [0][1] 0. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/economic-inequality/524610/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/economi... 1. HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16794514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16794514
    - 7y ago
idiot900 7y ago
People tend to like others similar to themselves. In this case, the upper-class people responsible for hiring presumably saw themselves in the upper-class resumes, and felt they had a better sense of who they would hire. It's like golf: in business, playing golf made you more relatable to those able to advance your career, and so golf clubs proliferated. Whether you actually liked the sport itself was often a secondary concern.
Smithalicious 7y ago
I also really doubt that the thing that's being encoded by "classical music" vs country music" is "rich vs poor" rather than "cultured vs uncultured". My immediate gut reaction is better for the "rich" hobbies than the "poor" hobbies as well, but it has nothing to do with me associating them with economic classes; the "rich" hobbies just seem more "sophisticated" and cerebral to me.

by spking 7y ago

xhgdvjky 7y ago

potentially OT: I wonder how they put music on a law resume edit.. and for that matter sports... uni groups maybe?

np_tedious 7y ago
New grads naming their club involvements during college is pretty commonplace, esp if they held leadership position in them
- tyingq 7y ago
  An "interests" area is somewhat common as well. Also awards..."NCAA rowing championship" or similar.

Ancalagon 7y ago

Side note: I had no idea track and field was considered a “poor” activity!

nerdponx 7y ago
It's not "poor" as much as it's "not rich". Also, something to do with skin color.
koolba 7y ago
For most of track and field all you need is a half decent pair of shoes. Contrast that to hockey, lacrosse, or polo.
mikestew 7y ago
As a former top-level high school/college track and field competitor, I can tell you that track and field has a much more "urban" flavor[0] than, say, sailing. I always took sports such as lacrosse to be "sports white people play", but I guess wealth could be an indicator, too. Dunno, I was never rich enough to find out. [0] Yes, that high-pitched sound you hear is a dog whistle.
- flukus 7y ago
  Sports can be weird and very fluid indicators. In Australia where I grew up Rugby League was played in public schools and Rugby Union in private ones, so union was associated with wealth. 20 years later union is often played in public schools in the poorest areas by migrants from the pacific islands and the indication is reversing. Every second house a swimming pool there (and beaches), so swimming wasn't seen as a wealthy activity like it is in other parts of the world/country. If you compare between countries it gets even weirder, we inherited almost all sports from England but for them tennis and cricket are they snooty sports, here they're firmly working class. Soccer and basketball for whatever reason seem to hit that egalitarian sweet spot.
jimbokun 7y ago
(think of the demographics of many of the people who excel at many of those events...)

Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago

I would rather hire a person who likes classical music than the one who likes country/rap/bieber. From my experience, people who prefer classical music are generally smarter.

eastWestMath 7y ago
Yeah, see you're part of the problem.
iamasoftwaredev 7y ago
So basically no one from a rural area and no black people?
- Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
  There are hardly black people deep in the Ural mountains, where I happen live, near the Siberian border. Anyway. Affinity to classical music (or classical poetry, for that matter) comes not from cultural background, but from a certain level of intellectual sophistication. I don't buy the thesis that some people are born into an oppressed class and can't escape it. In our age education is easily accessible to anyone who has internet. One can learn any language for free, become a developer or a musician or a photographer, all it takes is some will to make yourself learn some marketable skills. Of course, now you'll likely say that some people are oppressed and conditioned to be unable to escape their caste, but it's just nonsense.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    "I don't buy the thesis that some people are born into an oppressed class and can't escape it." How does this match with the economist that determined that climbing out of poverty requires 20 years of nothing going wrong on average? [0][1] 0. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/economic-inequality/524610/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/economi... 1. HN thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16794514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16794514
  - 7y ago

idiot900 7y ago

People tend to like others similar to themselves. In this case, the upper-class people responsible for hiring presumably saw themselves in the upper-class resumes, and felt they had a better sense of who they would hire. It's like golf: in business, playing golf made you more relatable to those able to advance your career, and so golf clubs proliferated. Whether you actually liked the sport itself was often a secondary concern.

Smithalicious 7y ago

I also really doubt that the thing that's being encoded by "classical music" vs country music" is "rich vs poor" rather than "cultured vs uncultured". My immediate gut reaction is better for the "rich" hobbies than the "poor" hobbies as well, but it has nothing to do with me associating them with economic classes; the "rich" hobbies just seem more "sophisticated" and cerebral to me.