4 ms·

I agree with you (Someone from France doesn't have to worry about the modern version of China's 9 generation purge[1]), but as a Canadian it's very common to se

by TkTech 7y ago

I agree with you (Someone from France doesn't have to worry about the modern version of China's 9 generation purge[1]), but as a Canadian it's very common to see the Chinese students here wildly supportive of the CCP, including harassing and attacking Hong Kong protesters. I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place. With a billion and a half citizens it's unlikely they lack for fanatics to exploit. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_familial_exterminations

ekianjo 7y ago
> I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place. Resistance against the CCP is a very tiny minority since there is a heavy brainwashing about how great everything CCP does since kids go to school at a young age - and they never get any other version of reality.
- sangnoir 7y ago
  Do they also make 6 year-olds give a pledge of allegiance?
- aclsid 7y ago
  Kind of similar to North America in a way. And just like the Chinese, you guys don't realize it because as the saying goes, everybody thinks their crap doesn't stink. Sure in the case of China it is a more crude form of propaganda, but if you don't believe me, just try to find information about what happened in Ecuador just now in your newsmedia. That information was supressed by media conglomerates because of a pro-US president that ended up doing something wildly unpopular. Compare the same exact event happening in a country like Venezuela. You get the idea.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    Kind of similar to North America in a way. Not really the same. Americans are taught to love an abstract, idealised version of America, an eagle perched atop a flag, and it doesn’t really work, half of Americans hate even that, and that’s fine, no one really cares. Whereas the Chinese are taught to love a specific leader of a specific party operating a specific system, etc. And the consequences for not complying are harsh.
    - swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
      As shitty as America is, we are allowed to criticize our government. And boy do we have a lot of harsh things to say about all of them.
      - atopuzov 7y ago
        Try criticising corporations, especially the one you work for or the one the company you work for works with.
        TurkishPoptart 7y ago
        I hate Amazon.com. And Facebook. And Google! (Disclaimer: I still use Google search.)
    - aclsid 7y ago
      Oh nobody denies that you have more political freedoms, I'm talking about why for instance, would your society focus so much about China being bad, highlighting the differences, whereas countries like Vietnam, still a communist state, you get to see tourism articles and everything. What Israel is doing to some Palestinians would also qualify as shady behavior, but what I'm saying is that I don't have a personal feud with any of those countries, and I would totally visit them. But I have friends and family that based on the amount of propaganda about China are refusing to buy certain products, use software like Wechat, etc. That is sophisticated propaganda in my opinion.
- cocoggu 7y ago
  Disclaimer: I'm french and I'm living in China since my wife is Chinese. It's not only about brainwashing. 40 years ago 85% of the chinese population was below the poverty line. Today it's between 10% and 15%. Under the party governance, almost everyone saw their life standards go up substantially. A lot of the people studying abroad saw their family starting from the bottom and they can now afford to study in western universities. They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far. Just another example: We have some friends who bought a very expensive new apartment in Beijing (around 4.5M US$). This is a brand new residence founded by Wang Jianlin, the founder of Wanda Group (the most powerful estate developer in China). The government allowed him to run this project under one condition: to build 3 apartment blocks on the same field (sharing the same park) which will be given to families under the poverty line. A lot of the wealthy people complained a lot about this, 1/3 of them got a refund and the price of the apartments dropped. So to get back to my point, this is not only brainwashing. The party is giving its people a new life, and these people will be thankful and loyal for at least decades. I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though.
  - goatinaboat 7y ago
    They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far. How do they rationalise that HK had a far higher standard of living all along, by doing exactly the opposite of what the CCP said?
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    > I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though. At what point will be start going up Maslow's hierarchy of needs and what more that material / economic satisfaction? Will there come a point when people feel "rich enough" and want other things? Recently the vlogger laowhy86 and his Chinese wife have moved to the US because things have gotten a bit too 'totalitarian' for him in China: * https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    > I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though. What is the 'cultural priority' of the Chinese people? > But, with only very few exceptions, they really conceived of liberalism not as an end in itself but rather as a means to the decidedly nationalist ends of wealth and power. They believed that liberalism was part of the formula that had allowed the U.S. and Great Britain to become so mighty. [...] > It must be understood that liberalism and nationalism developed in China in lockstep, with one, in a sense, serving as means to the other. That is, liberalism was a means to serve national ends — the wealth and power of the country. And so when means and end came into conflict, as they inevitably did, the end won out. Nationalism trumped liberalism. Unity, sovereignty, and the means to preserve both were ultimately more important even to those who espoused republicanism and the franchise. * https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-their-government/ https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-t...

by TkTech 7y ago

ekianjo 7y ago

> I imagine the ones that are outspoken against the CCP have a much harder time going abroad in the first place. Resistance against the CCP is a very tiny minority since there is a heavy brainwashing about how great everything CCP does since kids go to school at a young age - and they never get any other version of reality.

sangnoir 7y ago
Do they also make 6 year-olds give a pledge of allegiance?
aclsid 7y ago
Kind of similar to North America in a way. And just like the Chinese, you guys don't realize it because as the saying goes, everybody thinks their crap doesn't stink. Sure in the case of China it is a more crude form of propaganda, but if you don't believe me, just try to find information about what happened in Ecuador just now in your newsmedia. That information was supressed by media conglomerates because of a pro-US president that ended up doing something wildly unpopular. Compare the same exact event happening in a country like Venezuela. You get the idea.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Kind of similar to North America in a way. Not really the same. Americans are taught to love an abstract, idealised version of America, an eagle perched atop a flag, and it doesn’t really work, half of Americans hate even that, and that’s fine, no one really cares. Whereas the Chinese are taught to love a specific leader of a specific party operating a specific system, etc. And the consequences for not complying are harsh.
  - swagasaurus-rex 7y ago
    As shitty as America is, we are allowed to criticize our government. And boy do we have a lot of harsh things to say about all of them.
    - atopuzov 7y ago
      Try criticising corporations, especially the one you work for or the one the company you work for works with.
      - TurkishPoptart 7y ago
        I hate Amazon.com. And Facebook. And Google! (Disclaimer: I still use Google search.)
  - aclsid 7y ago
    Oh nobody denies that you have more political freedoms, I'm talking about why for instance, would your society focus so much about China being bad, highlighting the differences, whereas countries like Vietnam, still a communist state, you get to see tourism articles and everything. What Israel is doing to some Palestinians would also qualify as shady behavior, but what I'm saying is that I don't have a personal feud with any of those countries, and I would totally visit them. But I have friends and family that based on the amount of propaganda about China are refusing to buy certain products, use software like Wechat, etc. That is sophisticated propaganda in my opinion.
cocoggu 7y ago
Disclaimer: I'm french and I'm living in China since my wife is Chinese. It's not only about brainwashing. 40 years ago 85% of the chinese population was below the poverty line. Today it's between 10% and 15%. Under the party governance, almost everyone saw their life standards go up substantially. A lot of the people studying abroad saw their family starting from the bottom and they can now afford to study in western universities. They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far. Just another example: We have some friends who bought a very expensive new apartment in Beijing (around 4.5M US$). This is a brand new residence founded by Wang Jianlin, the founder of Wanda Group (the most powerful estate developer in China). The government allowed him to run this project under one condition: to build 3 apartment blocks on the same field (sharing the same park) which will be given to families under the poverty line. A lot of the wealthy people complained a lot about this, 1/3 of them got a refund and the price of the apartments dropped. So to get back to my point, this is not only brainwashing. The party is giving its people a new life, and these people will be thankful and loyal for at least decades. I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far. How do they rationalise that HK had a far higher standard of living all along, by doing exactly the opposite of what the CCP said?
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though. At what point will be start going up Maslow's hierarchy of needs and what more that material / economic satisfaction? Will there come a point when people feel "rich enough" and want other things? Recently the vlogger laowhy86 and his Chinese wife have moved to the US because things have gotten a bit too 'totalitarian' for him in China: * https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though. What is the 'cultural priority' of the Chinese people? > But, with only very few exceptions, they really conceived of liberalism not as an end in itself but rather as a means to the decidedly nationalist ends of wealth and power. They believed that liberalism was part of the formula that had allowed the U.S. and Great Britain to become so mighty. [...] > It must be understood that liberalism and nationalism developed in China in lockstep, with one, in a sense, serving as means to the other. That is, liberalism was a means to serve national ends — the wealth and power of the country. And so when means and end came into conflict, as they inevitably did, the end won out. Nationalism trumped liberalism. Unity, sovereignty, and the means to preserve both were ultimately more important even to those who espoused republicanism and the franchise. * https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-their-government/ https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-t...