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My old therapist (who literally saved my life fwiw) made me go through a series of IQ tests and I also received a similar score (141). At the time, he was attem

My old therapist (who literally saved my life fwiw) made me go through a series of IQ tests and I also received a similar score (141). At the time, he was attempting to prove that I had intelligence, and that I was smarter than I gave myself credit for. But the thing that I noticed was that it actually spun me in the opposite direction - when I thought I wasn't smart I could explain away the lack of motivation or success or whatever. When it was "proven" that I was "intelligent", I just felt like more of a failure. I had this big brain that I was barely using. I'm glad I know, because it feels good to know I guess. But I don't think that making me take that test really moved the needle for me in terms of self worth or success or anything like that. I had to figure my shit out via other methods (while working with that therapist). I suppose the point of this message is only to say that I empathize with your situation.

mdorazio 7y ago
Similar boat for me, but in my case it was that everyone else then raised their expectations. Because if you're "gifted" or whatever term they use these days, clearly you should be accomplishing amazing things constantly and if you don't you're a disappointment to the world at large. That kind of burden is pretty awful for most kids to grow up with.
- alexbanks 7y ago
  I was in gifted classes growing up, but it felt like a big fraud. I never really did any of the work, so my grades were always mediocre at best. But then testing came around and I'd score in the top %s, and continue to get placed in classes I wasn't willing to work hard enough to succeed at. It was this treadmill of failure and shame. It was really really awful, but my mom always said if I placed that high I had to take those classes, so I just kept going. It was definitely a pretty damaging process.
  - TurkishPoptart 7y ago
    This is me. Did you at least become a software engineer?
    - alexbanks 7y ago
      I did. I've been employed as an eng for 8 years.
dragontamer 7y ago
A lot of my teachers... and one of my parents... made this mistake with me. "You're so smart, why are you unable to do X ??". Which only made me feel as if I was dumb. Obviously, my teachers and parents were raising me the best they thought was possible, but I think they were mistaken with this strategy. I read a blogpost that really spoke to me: NEVER tell a child that they are smart, or dumb. Frankly, it doesn't matter. If they are unable to do X, tell them "You are unable to do X", no if-and-or-buts about it. Tell them you expect them to be able to do X, but in a way that doesn't bring up "intelligence" or "general performance". Its something I strive for with the next generation: my little cousins or nephews (no kids of my own yet) will be told what my expectations of them are, but I try to avoid the "intelligence trap" when talking with them.
- K0SM0S 7y ago
  You're totally right. "Mindset" by Dr Carol Dweck is probably the most important book (research) on this topic. A must-read for anyone pretending to educate kids, actually to anyone period.
  - Kaveren 7y ago
    funny you say that because growth mindset seems to be one of the clearest examples of modern feel-good science. invariably when a topic about intelligence gets posted we need someone to come around with an IQ around the 140 mark (I have no reason to doubt they are being honest fwiw) to tell us how because they personally failed, genetic intelligence is really unimportant (smarter rebuttals acknowledge that genetics plays a major role in intelligence, but that IQ is a really poor proxy of this, which is debatable). this ultimately culminates in Almost Everyone Can Be Good At Almost Everything If They Try Hard With A Good Minset, The Growth Mindset. the science is weak. it's baffling how her book can be a "must-read". https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/08/no-clarity-around-growth-mindset-yet/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/08/no-clarity-around-grow... https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/05/07/growth-mindset-4-growth-of-office/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/05/07/growth-mindset-4-growt... https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/what-is-your-mindset https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/what-is-your-mindset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck#Criticism edit: this article only addresses MENSA members, so i think this submission is bad. most well-adjusted intelligent people want nothing to do with MENSA. so even the claims of the submission are questionable.
J5892 7y ago
It had the opposite effect on me. I began to feel guilty for wasting my intelligence. I knew my older brother was at least as smart as me, and fell into an addiction cycle early on, so I was determined to not follow in his footsteps. Granted, I still went on to slack off and spend 7 years as an undergrad, but it payed off in the end.
BurningFrog 7y ago
> When it was "proven" that I was "intelligent", I just felt like more of a failure Sounds like you're smart enough to always find an argument for hating yourself :)
- alexbanks 7y ago
  There is a reason I am in therapy :)
mikorym 7y ago
To be fair, I work in finance and the people who are successful are often pretty "stupid". (CAs, I am looking at you.) Whatever it is that an IQ test scores, it doesn't score for success in business or in "life". In order for this not to be a useless post, FWIW: most mathematicians that I know and that are highly regarded would not do well in IQ tests, I would think. The clever ones solve problems and move on; the pioneers are less clever, more committed and more random, idiosyncratic.

mdorazio 7y ago

Similar boat for me, but in my case it was that everyone else then raised their expectations. Because if you're "gifted" or whatever term they use these days, clearly you should be accomplishing amazing things constantly and if you don't you're a disappointment to the world at large. That kind of burden is pretty awful for most kids to grow up with.

alexbanks 7y ago
I was in gifted classes growing up, but it felt like a big fraud. I never really did any of the work, so my grades were always mediocre at best. But then testing came around and I'd score in the top %s, and continue to get placed in classes I wasn't willing to work hard enough to succeed at. It was this treadmill of failure and shame. It was really really awful, but my mom always said if I placed that high I had to take those classes, so I just kept going. It was definitely a pretty damaging process.
- TurkishPoptart 7y ago
  This is me. Did you at least become a software engineer?
  - alexbanks 7y ago
    I did. I've been employed as an eng for 8 years.

dragontamer 7y ago

A lot of my teachers... and one of my parents... made this mistake with me. "You're so smart, why are you unable to do X ??". Which only made me feel as if I was dumb. Obviously, my teachers and parents were raising me the best they thought was possible, but I think they were mistaken with this strategy. I read a blogpost that really spoke to me: NEVER tell a child that they are smart, or dumb. Frankly, it doesn't matter. If they are unable to do X, tell them "You are unable to do X", no if-and-or-buts about it. Tell them you expect them to be able to do X, but in a way that doesn't bring up "intelligence" or "general performance". Its something I strive for with the next generation: my little cousins or nephews (no kids of my own yet) will be told what my expectations of them are, but I try to avoid the "intelligence trap" when talking with them.

K0SM0S 7y ago
You're totally right. "Mindset" by Dr Carol Dweck is probably the most important book (research) on this topic. A must-read for anyone pretending to educate kids, actually to anyone period.
- Kaveren 7y ago
  funny you say that because growth mindset seems to be one of the clearest examples of modern feel-good science. invariably when a topic about intelligence gets posted we need someone to come around with an IQ around the 140 mark (I have no reason to doubt they are being honest fwiw) to tell us how because they personally failed, genetic intelligence is really unimportant (smarter rebuttals acknowledge that genetics plays a major role in intelligence, but that IQ is a really poor proxy of this, which is debatable). this ultimately culminates in Almost Everyone Can Be Good At Almost Everything If They Try Hard With A Good Minset, The Growth Mindset. the science is weak. it's baffling how her book can be a "must-read". https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/08/no-clarity-around-growth-mindset-yet/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/04/08/no-clarity-around-grow... https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/05/07/growth-mindset-4-growth-of-office/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/05/07/growth-mindset-4-growt... https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/what-is-your-mindset https://www.buzzfeed.com/tomchivers/what-is-your-mindset https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Dweck#Criticism edit: this article only addresses MENSA members, so i think this submission is bad. most well-adjusted intelligent people want nothing to do with MENSA. so even the claims of the submission are questionable.

J5892 7y ago

It had the opposite effect on me. I began to feel guilty for wasting my intelligence. I knew my older brother was at least as smart as me, and fell into an addiction cycle early on, so I was determined to not follow in his footsteps. Granted, I still went on to slack off and spend 7 years as an undergrad, but it payed off in the end.

BurningFrog 7y ago

> When it was "proven" that I was "intelligent", I just felt like more of a failure Sounds like you're smart enough to always find an argument for hating yourself :)

alexbanks 7y ago
There is a reason I am in therapy :)

mikorym 7y ago

To be fair, I work in finance and the people who are successful are often pretty "stupid". (CAs, I am looking at you.) Whatever it is that an IQ test scores, it doesn't score for success in business or in "life". In order for this not to be a useless post, FWIW: most mathematicians that I know and that are highly regarded would not do well in IQ tests, I would think. The clever ones solve problems and move on; the pioneers are less clever, more committed and more random, idiosyncratic.