7 ms·

These huge TOS agreements are akin to governmental authoritarian control. Everyone has broken something in them, we are all a criminal. Knowing this, we all liv

These huge TOS agreements are akin to governmental authoritarian control. Everyone has broken something in them, we are all a criminal. Knowing this, we all live in fear knowing that it's not a matter of 'if' but 'when' the government/corporate overlord can cancel everything we've been working on or living for because of an obscure clause that no one has ever read, which was created for this very purpose.

shadowgovt 7y ago
Google isn't nearly old enough to have the vast web of cross-contradictory regulations that a government does. I sincerely doubt most users even interface with it enough to risk violating the TOS.
- falcolas 7y ago
  Well, if you accept TFA, all it can take is blocking ads that Google really wants to show you.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Not everyone does that. I don't. ;)
- anoncake 7y ago
  I hope I will never have to go to a country that is so badly run that a private, non-democratic company without any rule of law and a customer "support" bureaucracy that could be greatly improved by making it kafkaesque looks good in comparison.
tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
I see this meme a lot on the internet, especially when the US political justice system comes up lately, and it shows just how little our generation and younger care about how government works, is intended to work, and what to do when it doesn't work, the latter point being the most important. Going to social media and complaining, for example, is a good example of what not to do. The control is only authoritarian if those being controlled by it have no recourse. As applied to governments, authoritarianism has strong central power and limited political freedoms. In the US, we believe in the principles of limited central power, and many political freedoms. (Whether or not this is the situation depending on who you are is the topic of another day because this is how it should be, and the only way it may have become not that is if we have allowed our complacencies to kick in and allow it to happen. I am a firm believer in the concept of "people get the government they deserve in a democracy." ) Ultimately the governmental authoritarian control is beholden to the people and can be eradicated. The only reason we feel as if it can't be is because we have allowed the power to creep up over the years and it seems like an insurmountable mountain, but rest assured if you pick up that pick axe and start chipping away rock by rock you absolutely can tear it down. Likewise, authoritarianism applied to a corporation implies strong central power, and limited consumer freedoms. This is also patently false in the US. The US has anti-trust laws to prevent centralized control, consumer protection agencies, and the free market. The consumer ultimately always has the freedom to choose another option. If the corporation loses too many consumers, then the corporation goes under. I understand there is a lot of nuance, but this is the basic principles of how things should operate in this country, and the mechanisms for things to operate are in fact there. The question then becomes what are it's people doing about it?
- zajd 7y ago
  > The US has anti-trust laws to prevent centralized control, consumer protection agencies, and the free market. The consumer ultimately always has the freedom to choose another option. You had me going until this, nice satire
  - asdfman123 7y ago
    Hey dude, it looks like you're shadowbanned from HN. Just thought you should know.
    - zajd 7y ago
      Yeah I don't play well to the white moderate crowd.
- mlevental 7y ago
  show me a successful peaceful revolution anywhere in world ever in the history of the world.
  - ben509 7y ago
    Women basically asked for the right to vote, and got it.
  - ISL 7y ago
    Every time there is a change of party in a modern government. It is so commonplace that we miss it, but one ruling organization steps down and another, often with opposing views, steps up.
  - krzyk 7y ago
    Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution
    - mlevental 7y ago
freyir 7y ago
> ”because of an obscure clause that no one has ever read, which was created for this very purpose.” I don’t like that OP was locked out of his email. But besides that, it’s not as if he broke some obscure TOS clause. He actively subverted the company’s revenue model to take its product for free. That’s about as obvious as it gets that you’re risking being blocked from a service.
- superwayne 7y ago
  > He used specialized software to subvert the company’s revenue model and take its product for free. How is this different than using an ad blocker in the browser?
  - aaronax 7y ago
    It does seem similar. If you don't want to see the ads, don't use the service. I don't use an ad blocker, and if I don't want to see ads I pay for the service, such as with Reddit, Ars Technica, Windows Live Mail, Netflix, and YouTube. Technically, I quit Netflix once they started showing me ads, even though they were for their own shows (general dark patterns were the more significant factor though).
    - CathedralBorrow 7y ago
      Where do you draw that line though? If I take steps to ignore/block ads that don't involve software -- like muting during ads or flipping the phone over -- am I subverting the company's revenue model? How much do I need to "see" ads?
      - keithnoizu 7y ago
        Right. It's like the slow march towards the future from the fifteen million merits episode of black mirror.
      - aaronax 7y ago
        A very good question. Muting a TV seems OK on the surface to me, but only because it is normal to me. When actually thinking about it, I realize that muting TV ads is similar to web ad blocking. So in principle I would have to say that one shouldn't mute TV ads, or skip them using +10 second buttons. Of course I will not always live my life up to that principle...
tengbretson 7y ago
"Show me the man and I’ll show you the TOS Violation"
MisterTea 7y ago
And given that emails are akin to a home address these days, you can be locked out of your entire life. Google can wipe a person off the map. Bank accounts, health care, billing, everything is tied to email accounts and phones tied to google accounts.

shadowgovt 7y ago

Google isn't nearly old enough to have the vast web of cross-contradictory regulations that a government does. I sincerely doubt most users even interface with it enough to risk violating the TOS.

falcolas 7y ago
Well, if you accept TFA, all it can take is blocking ads that Google really wants to show you.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Not everyone does that. I don't. ;)
anoncake 7y ago
I hope I will never have to go to a country that is so badly run that a private, non-democratic company without any rule of law and a customer "support" bureaucracy that could be greatly improved by making it kafkaesque looks good in comparison.

tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago

I see this meme a lot on the internet, especially when the US political justice system comes up lately, and it shows just how little our generation and younger care about how government works, is intended to work, and what to do when it doesn't work, the latter point being the most important. Going to social media and complaining, for example, is a good example of what not to do. The control is only authoritarian if those being controlled by it have no recourse. As applied to governments, authoritarianism has strong central power and limited political freedoms. In the US, we believe in the principles of limited central power, and many political freedoms. (Whether or not this is the situation depending on who you are is the topic of another day because this is how it should be, and the only way it may have become not that is if we have allowed our complacencies to kick in and allow it to happen. I am a firm believer in the concept of "people get the government they deserve in a democracy." ) Ultimately the governmental authoritarian control is beholden to the people and can be eradicated. The only reason we feel as if it can't be is because we have allowed the power to creep up over the years and it seems like an insurmountable mountain, but rest assured if you pick up that pick axe and start chipping away rock by rock you absolutely can tear it down. Likewise, authoritarianism applied to a corporation implies strong central power, and limited consumer freedoms. This is also patently false in the US. The US has anti-trust laws to prevent centralized control, consumer protection agencies, and the free market. The consumer ultimately always has the freedom to choose another option. If the corporation loses too many consumers, then the corporation goes under. I understand there is a lot of nuance, but this is the basic principles of how things should operate in this country, and the mechanisms for things to operate are in fact there. The question then becomes what are it's people doing about it?

zajd 7y ago
> The US has anti-trust laws to prevent centralized control, consumer protection agencies, and the free market. The consumer ultimately always has the freedom to choose another option. You had me going until this, nice satire
- asdfman123 7y ago
  Hey dude, it looks like you're shadowbanned from HN. Just thought you should know.
  - zajd 7y ago
    Yeah I don't play well to the white moderate crowd.
mlevental 7y ago
show me a successful peaceful revolution anywhere in world ever in the history of the world.
- ben509 7y ago
  Women basically asked for the right to vote, and got it.
- ISL 7y ago
  Every time there is a change of party in a modern government. It is so commonplace that we miss it, but one ruling organization steps down and another, often with opposing views, steps up.
- krzyk 7y ago
  Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution
  - mlevental 7y ago

freyir 7y ago

> ”because of an obscure clause that no one has ever read, which was created for this very purpose.” I don’t like that OP was locked out of his email. But besides that, it’s not as if he broke some obscure TOS clause. He actively subverted the company’s revenue model to take its product for free. That’s about as obvious as it gets that you’re risking being blocked from a service.

superwayne 7y ago
> He used specialized software to subvert the company’s revenue model and take its product for free. How is this different than using an ad blocker in the browser?
- aaronax 7y ago
  It does seem similar. If you don't want to see the ads, don't use the service. I don't use an ad blocker, and if I don't want to see ads I pay for the service, such as with Reddit, Ars Technica, Windows Live Mail, Netflix, and YouTube. Technically, I quit Netflix once they started showing me ads, even though they were for their own shows (general dark patterns were the more significant factor though).
  - CathedralBorrow 7y ago
    Where do you draw that line though? If I take steps to ignore/block ads that don't involve software -- like muting during ads or flipping the phone over -- am I subverting the company's revenue model? How much do I need to "see" ads?
    - keithnoizu 7y ago
      Right. It's like the slow march towards the future from the fifteen million merits episode of black mirror.
    - aaronax 7y ago
      A very good question. Muting a TV seems OK on the surface to me, but only because it is normal to me. When actually thinking about it, I realize that muting TV ads is similar to web ad blocking. So in principle I would have to say that one shouldn't mute TV ads, or skip them using +10 second buttons. Of course I will not always live my life up to that principle...

tengbretson 7y ago

"Show me the man and I’ll show you the TOS Violation"

MisterTea 7y ago

And given that emails are akin to a home address these days, you can be locked out of your entire life. Google can wipe a person off the map. Bank accounts, health care, billing, everything is tied to email accounts and phones tied to google accounts.