48 ms·

Meh. I bailed out of the Mac ecosystem last year, as my mid-2012 retina Macbook was finally getting too creaky, and the latest Mac hardware was a regression in

by nkoren 7y ago

Meh. I bailed out of the Mac ecosystem last year, as my mid-2012 retina Macbook was finally getting too creaky, and the latest Mac hardware was a regression in many respects, while simultaneously utterly unaffordable. I'm now dual-booting Ubuntu/Windows 10 on a Dell XPS 15". What this experience has taught me is that computing in 2019 basically sucks. The problems with 2000-era Linux, as described in the article, are very similar to the problems with 2019-era Linux. External monitors are a particular pain point for me. I've got an HDPI laptop and I want to plug into an old non-HDPI era monitor. Doesn't work. Spend the next 10 hours poking around forums, trying weird XWindows options, installing Wayland, etc. Still doesn't work. Eventually, give up. Windows 10 works marginally better. Both remain vastly inferior to MacOs. I'm not saying that the grass isn't greener on the other side. Macs are regressing, but the grass isn't greener on either side. Let's stop pretending otherwise.

darrmit 7y ago
I came here to say the same. I do have more issues with macOS than I did, say, 5 years ago. However, the constant Windows update cycle is a nightmare and Linux still can't seem to get battery life and things like Bluetooth (audio inputs, etc.) quite right, so I'm left with hoping that Apple gets their stuff back together. Operating system stability just seems to have declined in general in the last 3-5 years.
- computerex 7y ago
  Have you tried using tlp/powertop? I'd say my battery life is pretty comparable to Windows after having done some optimizations using aforementioned tools.
  - darrmit 7y ago
    I have not, but will check it out. My problem is I love the idea of being able to tinker and get to a super stable, lovable mobile Linux setup, but I just don't have time right now. Maybe someday. :)
    - computerex 7y ago
      I think with tlp/powertop you can leave settings to their (good) default values. It's just a matter of installing these tools.
    - tsuraan 7y ago
      It's not much tinkering at all. Once you've installed powertop (probably just "dnf install powertop" or "apt install powertop", or whatever your favorite flavour is), you can just run "sudo powertop --auto-tune"[0]. If you do like to tinker, you could maybe write your own init script to run that on boot, but your distro probably included one already. 0 - https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/ https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/
  - i_am_proteus 7y ago
    Can confirm. Battery life on my T420 went from about 3 to about 7 hours after installing. No manual config necessary. I mention "T420" because I think it's pretty manufacturer-specific. ThinkPad and XPS usually have good hardware support on commmon Linux distributions, but other laptops may not.
  - xtracto 7y ago
    As with the other comment saying "have you used X/Y command" it is funny, given the original article. Someone should setup a list of all these "tricks" and non-standard "patches" that people have to use in Linux after installing it so that it works decently. Nowadays my desktop PC is a Linux (Mint) one. I like it, and I use it for several things, including gaming. But I don't kid me, the usability is utter crap, and coming from a 25 year yourny with Linux, it is still playing catchup with regards to hardware control (audio, bluetooth, wifi, etc).
    - computerex 7y ago
      Why do you think the usability is crap? Can you be more specific? I haven't had any issues with audio/bluetooth/wifi and many many people at my workplace use linux for development and I haven't heard about audio/wifi related issues since maybe 10 years ago.
      - feanaro 7y ago
        Yeah, I don't get it. I set it up for a lot of my family, including grandpas and whatnot, taught them how to upgrade packages and basically forgot about it. With Windows that was never possible.
      - xtracto 7y ago
        Sure: - bluetooth headphones refuse to connect half of the time (they work 100% on my phone and on windows on same hardware) - audio: sometimes sound just refuses to play.. have to restart graphical session. - upgrade: after upgrading mint to latest version, restarting got stuck in the terminal: it was missing some package. Had to manually pat install it. - Android studio/mobile: have to fight for the OS to recognize connected mobile for adb. - Game: CS:GO sometimes sound is either choppy or "fixing" it in game settings makes it leggy. Same game in steam as well works fine in windows in same hardware. And the list of thousand paper cuts could go on. Don't get me wrong, I still use Mint as my main OS in that computer. I have always been a Linux/BSD enthusiast. When I was in my 20s I enjoyed a lot tinkering with it, to make X11R6 work, then winmodems, then sound cards (with alsa), then wifi , etc. But nowadays at 37, I care less and less about dealing with that kind of thing.
- lostmsu 7y ago
  Can you elaborate on what do you mean by Windows update cycle? I have a Mac Mini, that I rarely touch to check a new release of something on Mac, and practically every time I have to use it, an update is pending. Not sure how this is worse, than Windows.
  - airstrike 7y ago
    With Windows it feels the same way, except a lot of what Windows Update does runs silently in the background, sometimes during your most precious computing hours with no way to stop it except force quitting through the Task Manager. And half the time the updates fail. And when you quickly want to shut down sometimes Windows also forces an update...
    - lostmsu 7y ago
      There is the active hours setting, and I have not seen an update fail in quite a long time (several years).
      - ulises314 7y ago
        This, everyone is complaining on how bad desktop OSes are now but even windows is great now, compared to mobile devices, desktop is heaven.
      - tekknik 7y ago
        last i checked microsoft still doesn’t have scheduled boot times (granted this would likely be a bios setting on windows boxes) so i’d have to leave my PC on overnight to run the updates. it’s a bandaid, not a fix for the update problem.
        GordonS 7y ago
        You can use Task Scheduler to stop/start your PC at specific times.
        7y ago
- erikbye 7y ago
  Regarding Windows update cycle, you have the option of using LTSC, pausing updates for up to 35 days (yes, that's a built-in option now), or adjust update settings with GPO.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    You’re always fighting upstream that way. Even at a massive enterprise with a 9 figure account relationship with Microsoft, they just won’t fix issues after a few weeks of release. The product groups will rope a dope you until you hit some product cycle milestone and then tell you to fuck off. The company has laid off or reallocated everyone and moved them to Azure. It’s Windows latest or bust. Since Apple is a shitshow with Mac and Google is too mercurial to rely on, dumpster fire is the new normal. If you can do it, the smart money right now is to invest in iOS and watch Chrome.
    - derefr 7y ago
      I mean, the GP and most people who hear "fighting the Windows update cycle" assume you mean "fighting against being forced to interrupt your work and reboot to update" (the constant complain among Windows users) rather than something about intentionally avoiding new versions of the OS. If you were an OS company and it were possible to force everyone to be running on master (and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities), wouldn't you, too? But even then, this isn't true: > It’s Windows latest or bust Windows IoT Core is pretty stable. Wouldn't want your ATM or billboard rebooting every night. There are folks at Microsoft who remember how to do LTS software. They just don't think it's a good idea in a consumer product.
      - a1369209993 7y ago
        > and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities That's not what running on master means. It means that all of your (many) security vulnerabilities are ones you don't know about[1] and random things keep breaking for no reason (and when you report them, it breaks in a way that's just different enough to let your bug report be closed as FIXED). 1: except (if you pay attention) the ones the developer advertises as 'features', like ssh with a default password of "password" baked into the kernel for "inventory management".
- fragmede 7y ago
  What Linux has gotten right (on my hardware), is wake from suspend. That laptop never has problems with that. What's frustrating, is my work MBP laptop, can't seem to reliably wake from sleep (inc using my external monitor).
computerex 7y ago
I started using linux in 2006 and I'd say linux is best its ever been. I used to have so many problems with my graphics drivers, now things usually work out of the box. I have not had any problems with multi-monitor support, although I have heard that HDPI screen experience still needs to be refined. I have a macbook pro running Mojave, and my gaming desktop runs Windows, my personal and favorite device runs Manjaro linux. I use all 3 main operating systems regularly and I'd say the linux story suits me and my needs best.
- fqw3b58w4n6 7y ago
  Same here, about 2008 for me. The complaints I have are pretty minimal (audio is a bit wonky sometimes, but nothing difficult to resolve; hilariously enough my laptop does have wifi issues, but I don't care, I'm plugged in 99% of the time anyways). To be fair, I'm using the exact opposite of an out of the box experience. I've been refining my setup for years and using it is truly a joy to me.
  - KibbutzDalia 7y ago
    So you have wonky audio and bad Wi-Fi and you think it’s fine? That’s very odd, in my reading of it.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Seconded. Graphics drivers work OOTB and the Open ATI/AMD drivers are actually pretty good. Steam (with Proton) work well for most games save for the newest AAA titles, and WINE is pretty solid. Base install Fedora isn't too bad, and Linux Mint pretty good as well.
kn100 7y ago
W.r.t your hidpi/non-hidpi issue - a 'proper' solution is slowly making its way out of the woodwork. Wayland apparently will allow us to solve this problem, but in the meantime here's my solution if it'll help you. I have a 4k dell xps 13 and a 2k monitor. I have this script set up to run on boot. https://gist.github.com/kn100/7193667d393fcf34d4d5c6c359a695af https://gist.github.com/kn100/7193667d393fcf34d4d5c6c359a695... What this does is it forces your internal display to run at exactly quarter resolution (ie 1600x900), and adds your second display at its native resolution to the setup. Since the panel is running at a multiple of its native resolution, it still looks fine, if not quite as pixel perfect. This has the nice side effect of making the laptop feel a bit faster since it's driving a quarter of the pixels it usually has to drive. This makes the monitor panel do the scaling too, which is nice. With this setup, both displays will be running at a roughly similar DPI which will make scaling issues... a non issue! I hope this helps.
- quincunx 7y ago
  You're very kind to offer help like this, but from the article: "... the only way to fix it is to find terminal commands from discussion forums, type them in and hope for the best" quote seems apt.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 7y ago
    There's a tool called arandr that'll let you do most of this visually: I use it everytime I rearrange my monitors.
- Pizzaputer 7y ago
  This is insane. I thought issues like these were solved problems ? Is there no distro/display server that just works for a setup such as this?
  - boudin 7y ago
    The wayland protocol solve this. I do think that at least gnome 3.34+ and wlroot based window managers support this, but it needs to be confirmed as i don't have this setup and just used ratios on same dpi monitors. Not sure how it works with X based app also that are run through xwayland.
mattigames 7y ago
Opinions are a funny thing, I find MacOs vastly inferior to Windows, but I grew up with Windows so I'm biased that way; I'm betting you and people claiming 'the good old days of mac' are biased too.
- geerlingguy 7y ago
  There were periods where the outlook and software quality was bleak... and there were periods where the outlook and software quality was amazing. Right now is not anywhere near as bad as it’s been a few times in the past (pre-OS X, early OS X days especially)... but if someone doesn’t turn around the ship things are headed that way currently.
  - nkoren 7y ago
    Ironically, in those days I was at my OS happiest. I'd built a multi-core BeOS monster, and felt like I was a decade ahead of the rest of the world. Two decades later, and I still can't find as performant or useable a system as that.
    - waddlesplash 7y ago
      Haiku? :)
- jonwinstanley 7y ago
  I grew up using Windows and after 20 years switched to Mac and could not believe I had waited for so long. What parts of Windows do you prefer over MacOS?
  - lostmsu 7y ago
    Mostly hardware support. I need my NVidia GPUs until AMD is on par in TensorFlow performance.
  - mattigames 7y ago
    I remember the few times I had to interact with MacOs to be really frustrating but I don't remember all the specifics, I remember actionable buttons being too small (so easier to miss), and the top bar changing options depending on what app is focused to bother me as well, because thats and extra click (to make the top bar appear) for every interaction there when you have 2 apps side to side. In general from what I know the key functional advantages Windows has are: Software from 15 years ago still works fine without issues, real Linux inside by default (Ubuntu on WLS), videogames.
llimllib 7y ago
I was linux-only from 2002 to about 2009, on laptops, when I switched to Mac. I just set up a linux desktop for kicks the last couple of weeks, and it doesn't seem to me to be any better than it was a decade ago. * No way to adjust mouse scroll speed; official answer seems to be "don't want that". (Or install imwheel and change your mouse scroll to be equal to hitting the down button (!) which breaks other stuff) * To make an icon on the favorites bar in gnome, you have to edit a .desktop text file! Madness. I mean, I'm a programmer, so I'm capable of it, but it's seriously annoying * modifying keyboard shortcuts is extremely difficult; I really wish linux had a karabiner equivalent * searching for help usually yields results that are half a decade or more old, and it's very difficult to figure out if it's current advice or not * installing a gnome-shell extension was way more difficult than it should be * brew isn't the best, but on linux I need to use both brew _and_ apt because you can't reliably get anything approaching up-to-date software with apt I remain reasonably happy with it, but Mac is still so far ahead of it in terms of usability it's wild.
- erikbye 7y ago
  Many of these complaints are resolved by using another desktop environment, e.g. KDE. Others of the distro (use another one if you want up-to-date packages).
  - Frondo 7y ago
    I last used KDE about a year ago, so I'm not sure if this is still a problem, but even KDE doesn't let you slow down mouse cursor speed, only make it faster. Is that still the case? They didn't even have a slider for controlling mouse speed, only a numerical text entry. It boggles the mind.
    - palebluedot 7y ago
      Settings->Input Devices->Mouse There is a slider for adjusting pointer speed.
    - MegaDeKay 7y ago
      The "Mouse" Systems Setting I have on screen on my up-to-date KDE right now has a slider for pointer speed with no numerical entry. There is only a small handful of other settings that quite useful (acceleration profile, invert scroll direction, and a couple other things). KDE has been working hard on usability lately.
Aperocky 7y ago
I’ve seen people use Dell XPS, but the huge bottom bezel and lack of macs touchpad threw me off. At this point, it seem like the only selling point of Apple being it’s touchpad. And even everyone knows it there doesn’t seem to be anyone catching up. I even managed to play Diablo 2 with just touchpad. I really don’t like the direction apple is heading though, starting with the pointless touchbar. I hope some day other company can create a touchpad rivaling Mac and Linux push a patch that can make use of that touchpad in the same way/same quality that Mac does
- computerex 7y ago
  The keyboard also feels like slamming your fingers against a wall. There is no travel distance, and a speck of dust can disable keys. There are also thermal issues with the chassis, and the lack of ports is also a hassle for developers. I totally agree though that the touchpad experience is the best on Apple hardware + osx. Pure joy to use the Apple touchpad, really wish other manufacturers would take a leaf from Apple.
- erikbye 7y ago
  I manage fine with the touchpad on my Surface Book 2, not as good as Apple's, but certainly usable. Tap clicks work well.
- nkoren 7y ago
  The XPS is alright. Its touchpad hasn't been as big a transition as I'd feared -- although the loss of kinetic scrolling is certainly lamented. My main issues with the XPS are: - Only slightly quieter than a vacuum cleaner. - Unless you want to use the fancy GPU in Linux, in which case it's louder than a vacuum cleaner and has a very short battery life. (I keep the GPU disabled) - Camera is placed at the bottom of the bezel, which is an ideal location for observing your fingers on the keyboard, or if you give the screen a jaunty tilt, peering far up your nostrils. Serves no other purpose. I really can't fathom the process by which that camera got greenlit. I use an external clip-on camera instead. A Mac would certainly be better. For the same amount of power and storage, it would also be 3x the price, and (in recent years) probaly less robust.
shams93 7y ago
The fixes for meltdown/specter cause some real slowdown of Intel performance, why is my quad core i7 so creaky compared to my old a6 with and, the i7 should smoke an old and a6 but thanks to these hardware bugs the i7 is creaky and slow.
erikbye 7y ago
How is macOS any better? Default macOS, without third-party software. Does vanilla macOS even have keyboard-based window management yet? Does it still have weird modals where you're forced to use the mouse to select an option?
- machello13 7y ago
  > Does it still have weird modals where you're forced to use the mouse to select an option? I don't think I've ever encountered a modal like this. Not with "Use keyboard navigation to move focus between controls" turned on. By keyboard-based window management you mean being able to tile windows? That can be added with a third-party app pretty easily, but I think it's much a much less fundamental problem than those pointed out in Linux.
  - erikbye 7y ago
    So that answers my question? You still, in 2019, cannot even move a window/app on the desktop in vanilla macOS using your keyboard? That, to me, is crazy. How can a company with the resources of Apple not implement this basic feature? Simply the equivalent of Windows' win + arrow keys would be a huge improvement. I know third party software offers such features and more, I am simply not interested, some are even paid software. I need no such software with Windows or the Linux DEs I use. Besides, it's just one example of crazy things missing from macOS. > but I think it's much a much less fundamental problem than those pointed out in Linux. What fundamental problems?
    - ben509 7y ago
      > You still, in 2019, cannot even move a window/app on the desktop in vanilla macOS using your keyboard? > That, to me, is crazy. How can a company with the resources of Apple not implement this basic feature? That's one solution to the problem of selecting the thing you want to work on. Apple's solution has been to throw hardware at the problem. You have gestures, expose, mission control, etc. all available from a really good touchpad. It would be crazy for a linux distro to take that approach because they can't bundle a high quality touchpad with every laptop they sell. I definitely don't claim their approach that they will do best of class support for a pointing-heavy workload will suit everyone, just that it makes sense for a combined OS and hardware vendor.
puranjay 7y ago
I don't know how we came to this point. Laptops in 2019 certainly suck across the board. A good keyboard is almost impossible to find and reliability isn't a thing we even consider. In contrast, I don't think there has ever been a better time for desktops. Mechanical keyboards have become fashionable again, AMD has brought the fight to Intel's table, and GPUs have never been faster and cheaper.
- Mindwipe 7y ago
  Although all major OSes are still a massive pain even on Desktops currently.
  - ulises314 7y ago
    Really? I run Raspbian, Windows and FreeBSD on my home on different machines for different purposes, and though all three have their weaknesses, they are much better than they were two decades ago.
  - KibbutzDalia 7y ago
    Have you tried Arch Linux, by the way?
rayiner 7y ago
Yes. My 2012 retina MacBook was getting long in the tooth last year, so I got an X1 Carbon with all the bells and whistles. Remarkably, the on board LTE just plain never worked. (It would randomly die after a few uses requiring a hard reboot.) The screen bezel delaminated and has to be replaced. Developed three dead pixels after a few months of use. Recently started rebooting randomly with a full battery. My dad had similar problems with an X1 Carbon which he bought on my recommendation. And Windows 10 is still bad. So many apps are not DPI aware. Windows Store apps are better in this regard, but often are stripped down and bereft of features. (Out of the box it was unusable. I installed LTSC which made things better. But I haven’t had to reinstall my OS, except to sell a machine, since I first moved to Mac from Linux in 2007.) My wife, by contrast, bit the bullet and got a 2018 MacBook Pro to replace her 2012 retina. It took her a bit to adjust to the new keyboard, but she’s a much happier camper than I am.
- mumblemumble 7y ago
  > So many apps are not DPI aware. I tried switching to a Windows laptop at work a couple years ago, and bounced off of it (returning to an ancient MacBook) basically entirely because of this. That, in combination with the laptop's 4K monitor, conspired to make it impossible for me to read text in some applications I used without a magnifying glass. I suspect that Windows might be totally fine with so many apps not being DPI aware if laptop manufacturers weren't also doing things like creating 15" 4K monitors.
- dkonofalski 7y ago
  >So many apps are not DPI aware. I tried to use Windows on my laptop to run some ETL software, not because I was trying to get off of macOS but because that particular tool only exists on Windows for right now, and running it on a 4K display or a HiDPI display makes it completely unusable. The fonts for the icons and everything else are so unbelievably tiny and using the scaling features just makes everything bigger. If Windows had a good way of dealing with apps that aren't HiDPI aware, it wouldn't be an issue but even the tools that they do have aren't consistent in how they fix the issue. Scaling the UI by 200% isn't a good fix.
  - 7y ago
mikestew 7y ago
Windows 10 works marginally better. Both remain vastly inferior to MacOs. That's where I'm stuck. We're all-in at our house on Apple stuff. I'm no Windows hater per se, hell, I used to work at Microsoft and my wife still does. And there was a time that I'd say about Mac OS: "this is what an operating system should be". Oh, you most certainly disagree, but bear with me. I don't say that anymore. Too much half-assed shit, and yada yada, no need to repeat it here; macOS ain't what it used to be. But what else am I going to use? I keep rootin' for Linux, but every time I boot one of my VMs, well, it ain't replacing macOS just yet. Windows (at least the NT variants) when I worked for MSFT was a perfectly servicable operating system. It wasn't Unix, but it was better than classic Mac OS, and pretty damned solid. But I have to use Windows 10 at work now, and I fucking hate it. Again, no need to repeat it all here, I just do. Yeah, Mac hardware sucks, too. I guess when my 2012 retina dies, I'll have to...oh, wait a minute, I'm still plugging away on a seven year old laptop? That I've dragged all over God's creation and use daily? Still as functional as the day I bought it? I dunno, will I find a better alternative come replacement time? Or has the quality of everything else gone down, too? I know, I know, X1 Carbon, XPS; but then my gut seems to think that I hear just as much complaining about those, too. So in truth, when the 2012 MBP dies, I have no idea what I'm going to do to replace it. EDIT: thanks, folks. Don't know why I hadn't considered used 2015. If a 2012 is fine, I ought to be tickled with a 2015, right? :-) Sidenote: "which listed the magical indentation that purges reserved space." Unless you're using Python, I think the author wants to replace "indentation" with "incantation".
- e40 7y ago
  So in truth, when the 2012 MBP dies, I have no idea what I'm going to do to replace it. There are used MBPs available from various reputable sources. That's my goto at work, when someone's laptop dies.
  - wwweston 7y ago
    Would love a list of any reputable sources... the keyboard is starting to fail on my beloved mid 2012 (last model with matte screen!).
phatfish 7y ago
I have Fedora 30 running KDE as a desktop in a VM and a laptop. In the VM its actually very nice. Dolphin is nicer than Explorer, with tabs and better view options. The desktop customization options work well and I can set it up very similar to a Windows task bar as I am used to. The most annoying issue I've noticed is that copy and paste would stop working cross application sometimes (pretty poor). But turning off an "auto copy on select" option seems to fix that. Still an issue as its broken by default. The laptop (AMD Matebook) is a different story. There is just not the hardware testing capacity that Microsoft and their hardware vendors provide. So kernel updates will break hibernate/sleep, or it has never worked. The trackpad will stop responding to taps after resuming, and other issues. There are also some minor graphical issues but that's mainly down to AMD drivers. KDE is the best its ever been. The issues come from hardware issues that can never be fully tested and fixed without a vendor taking Linux support seriously.
- 0b0001 7y ago
  There are other things under the hood. Things that a desktop OS can't do anymore, not today. Your password manager kWallet is, once unlocked at system start, an unencrypted file where any application can access any password. If kMail fetches a signed mail in background, you'll be unexpectedly prompted to accept the certificate with no indication where the pop-up came from. Password dialogues have no priority whatsoever. When a password dialogue pops up just before another application starts, you're likely to enter your password into the wrong dialogue.
fortran77 7y ago
Windows 10 on the "happy path" (the right hardware) works very well. My desktop machine is a box by ThinkMate (dual Xeon, 256 GB Ram, Dual 2080 video cards, dual 5K monitors). It "just works" -- including all the power management functions sleep, hibernate, monitor sleep, wake on ethernet, fan control, etc. Super quiet unless all the GPUs are running full blast. My laptop is a Surface Book. Again, it "just works". Plug in a monitor, share the desktop, sleep and wake. And other vendors are getting better at not putting in crapware that breaks windows, like hard-to-uninstall 30-day trial versions that nag you, or silly "extra keys" or help software (IBM used to have a key that brought up an IBM help system that was completely useless--and it used to get pressed accidentally.) I switched from Mac to Windows when Windows 10 came out and haven't looked back. It "just works."
- Kaos-Industries 7y ago
  Props for escaping the Apple cult for Windows, but I'm sorry, how much RAM? Why does anyone need that much RAM? And more importantly, how much did it cost?
  - heelix 7y ago
    My work threadripper was 128G @ $1100(usd) last month for non-ecc ram. Server at twice that decency is likely a pretty penny.
  - fortran77 7y ago
    The whole box was about 8K (w/o the monitors). Go to ThinkMate.com and price it for ECC ram. Prices change often. It's less than you think! We do signal processing software in C++ and GPGPU so we like a lot of ram to hold samples. I probably only needed half of it. I think people who want to compile Rust also need hundreds of GB or RAM....
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  Did you ever get ECC corrected error?
  - 7y ago
jamesponddotco 7y ago
Been using macOS and Ubuntu for years now, and while I try to make Ubuntu my primary operating system so I can ditch my slow MacBook Air 2018, I always end up going back to it. Look, I love Ubuntu. Heck, I am a recognized Ubuntu Member, was the leader of the LoCo Team for my country for a while, helped a few universities in my state switch to Ubuntu from Windows, have a plaque signed by Mark Shuttleworth acknowledging my contributions and everything. But macOS is simply better, even though it sucks monkey balls right now — better for me, of course. My Ubuntu machine — which I built to edit photos and game — currently runs on a Threadripper 2950X with two VEGA 64 GPUs. It should be a beast, and it is, but the entire computer freezes from time to time and requires a hard reboot to come back to life. Nothing I could find in the logs so far. Sometimes that happens once a week, sometimes it happens five times a day — heck, I had it happen right after a reboot once. While the MacBook Air chokes when I open more than say, 45 tabs in Safari, I never had similar issues, and I only reboot this computer when I forget to charge it. You can say Apple is dead all you want, but there will always be people like me that will go the Apple route because they are tired of troubleshooting shit all day — I spent a fair amount of time doing that in my earlier days, and I spend all day doing that at work, so why would I want to do that 24/7?
- rusk 7y ago
  > the entire computer freezes from time to time Hate to point out what may be obvious, but since this is a self-build, have you entirely eliminated hardware issues? Bad connections or components that just don’t jive properly together? Just saying cause the first thing that came to mind when you described the issue is something similar I had a while back with mismatched RAM; it doesnt sound as though the comparison controls for these kinds of causes.
  - jamesponddotco 7y ago
    Yep, already did rule these things out — it also doesn't happen in Ubuntu 18.04 or Windows, only on Ubuntu 19.04. My guess is that this is a kernel or GPU driver issue, since it doesn't happen in Ubuntu 18.04, but it will take time to find exactly which version of the kernel get this to stop.
- 7y ago
asjw 7y ago
Oddly enough my experience in years of computing on different platforms, including some exotic one, is the exact opposite. For me MacOS is the worst when it comes to external monitors. It kinds works good enough, but never great. Especially with old hardware.
linguae 7y ago
I wholeheartedly agree. The state of personal computing in 2019 is one of uncomfortable compromises. I'm still using my Macs; I have a 2013 Mac Pro that I regularly use at home, a 2013 MacBook Air that I also regularly use whenever I'm not at home, and a work-issued 2018 MacBook Pro that I use all the time. I believe that the macOS experience and value proposition has regressed from what it was earlier this decade. I resent the move toward non-upgradeable RAM and storage, and I resent the higher prices, especially with the 2019 Mac Pro, which starts at $5999 (compare that to the $2999 entry-level price of the 2013 Mac Pro). I am also concerned about the direction of the Mac; I am concerned that within the next five years the Mac will be a locked-down platform with some allowances for programmability. I feel that the writing is on the wall regarding the future of the Mac, and eventually I'll have to change platforms. I've been testing the waters with Windows 10 and Linux. I have a Dell XPS 9570 with Windows 10 Professional that I sometimes use. It's an excellent machine (I like it better than my work-issued 2018 MacBook Pro), and I really like Windows' Linux subsystem, but Windows 10 has its annoyances, most notably the ads and the mandatory updates. I also think Windows 10's interface looks gaudy with its oversized bars (especially the title bars), although Windows 10 doesn't look as bad on a 4K monitor. I also use the Linux Mint distribution on a ThinkPad T430 that I use for web browsing, traveling, and some light programming. I like the Cinnamon desktop, and I can generally find replacements for many of the macOS applications I use. However, I miss the fit-and-finish of macOS. I miss the consistency between applications found in macOS. I miss macOS's pervasive support for PDFs, and macOS's superior font rendering compared to Linux. I miss macOS's Dictionary.app, which I regularly use for both English and Japanese; so far I have not found anything like it on other platforms. So, while I could sell my Macs and switch entirely to Windows 10 and Linux tomorrow and still remain productive, I will lose many of the positive aspects of the Mac that keep me on the platform. macOS is still the desktop that emphasizes fit-and-finish and consistency among applications, and I will lose this fit-and-finish and consistency when switching to other platforms. Honestly, I think the time is ripe for another operating system, one that picks up where macOS has left off yet is not restricted to a specific vendor's hardware. Personally I believe the desktop operating system of the future will be one that draws from some ideas from the past that have never been fully realized. The high-level interface will be inspired by the Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines, preferably those from the classic Mac era (I admit, as much as I like Mac OS X, I believe that the classic Mac OS era was actually superior from a usability standpoint, even if its infrastructure wasn't solid). Application software should be built using components inspired by Apple's OpenDoc project. The system should be an object system inspired by Smalltalk or CLOS that enables pervasive programmability of the environment and supports an objects-all-the-way-down environment, and the operating system should provide a REPL for programmers. The difficult part will be how to make such an operating system happen, since building an operating system is a large effort, and I believe part of the reason why the desktop computing situation in 2019 is the way that it is has to do with market forces. Still, I'm dreaming of such an operating system being developed.
fsociety 7y ago
Use Fedora! It's a significantly better user-experience and has better support for hi-DPI screens.
helpPeople 7y ago
Windows is inferior to MacOS? Bold claim given Enterprise exclusively uses Windows. Your opinion might tarnish your reputation
- oriolid 7y ago
  Enterprise is also the inspiration behind Dilbert. I agree that Windows is nowhere as bad as it was in the 90s and early 2000s and OS X isn't as good as it was in 2014, but software development on Windows is still slightly painful.
  - ahartmetz 7y ago
    Windows 2000 was actually pretty nice, it was my favorite Windows. It was an already quite refined member of the NT series and also the last no-nonsense NT. XP felt garish and annoying, even though the actual technology improved overall, especially with the service packs.
    - oriolid 7y ago
      Windows 2000 SP3 was felt really nice compared to constant crashing with 95/98 and XP's ugly UI and again increased crashes. But if you try 2000 now, it's clumsy and it was only SP3 that was finally stable. XP could be easily improved by just switching to classic UI style and any wallpaper other than the default teletubbyland. Still I think 7 was the first Windows that didn't need reboot at least once per day and would't give blue screens.
haolez 7y ago
I’m a long time Linux user and I’ve recently switched to a Chromebook (I wanted a huge batter life). I intended to install Linux on it, but ChromeOS is very mature nowadays and it supports both Android and Linux apps (even graphic ones, like VSCode). I’m sticking to it for now. The experience is incredibly polished.
- fragmede 7y ago
  Chromebooks are "Linux" depending on which definition of Linux you want to use, and getting a Linux environment with some root access is possible without disabling Google's code signing - a VM is run, where you have root, with all the overhead that implies. (I hear it's fine when running on powerful hardware, but it's a bad time on cheap Chromebooks.) It's not really root, eg, you can't change the wifi MAC address of the host. (Yes, it's 2019, and I still find myself doing that. Yes it's stupid.) You can disable the code signing and get true root, without having to fully go in and install a desktop Linux, with all that implies (positive and negative). There's a boot screen that can be disabled but that requires opening up the hardware. It's certainly nice, and a viable option these days, but I wanted to give caveats, as it's imperfect. I used to be a Thinkpad person (I miss my trackpoint dearly) but I'm on a Chromebook these days.
  - haolez 7y ago
    By Linux I meant “Linux DEs”. Thanks for clarifying.
Nursie 7y ago
>> I've got an HDPI laptop and I want to plug into an old non-HDPI era monitor. Doesn't work. At all? That's unusual... I've got a 4K screen and a 1920x1200 screen next to each other, I use XFCE. I had to fart around with xrandr for a couple of hours but now I have the desktop working better than Windows or OS X - no fuzzy font rendering when moving windows between monitors like OS X, no weird size jumps like Windows.
robocat 7y ago
I had a Dell XPS15, Ubuntu 18.04, with a set of fixes applied (I think GitHub JackHack96 dell-xps-9570-ubuntu-respin). It worked OK with either 1080p or 4k external monitors - this was my everyday development machine. No way was it perfect, but it was usable. Windows 10 has other issues. I don't use Mac, but I could see it clearly is far better at dealing with HiDpi monitors.
fit2rule 7y ago
I've been a "MacBook" user since 2002 (tiBook), with subsidiary Linux machines playing second fiddle for when I'm at the Homebase. Before that, I was 80% Linux and 20% SGI/MIPS for most of the 90's. I Wish someone would make a Linux laptop as physically appealing as the 2018 MacBook Pro. I have a GPD Pocket. Its pretty damn close. Gimme the same (or better, naturally) specs, but better form-factor than the MacBook Pro, and I will switch immediately. Alas, until then, I'm using a MacBook. READY TO SWITCH THOUGH! ITS THE HARDWARE, NOT THE SOFTWARE!
robbie-c 7y ago
I have the same Dell Windows/Ubuntu setup. In case this helps you, I found that whilst plugging in a DisplayPort monitor into the USB-C port didn't work, I could get my 4k monitor to work either by going through a USB-C Dock made by Dell, or by using an Hdmi cable. I also managed to get a 2015 MBP second-hand quite cheaply, and although the specs are a bit weaker it is a lot more pleasant to use.
pier25 7y ago
My main machine is an iMac but I recently setup a Windows desktop machine for making music and gaming because none of the curren Apple offering fit my needs. Even in 2019 a lot of Windows software doesn't support scaling correctly. It seems like outside of the very big and popular applications everything is a win32 app from 20 years ago.
ernie24 7y ago
I am stil amazed at whan my late 2013 Mac Book Pro can do. Recently I've bought one of the cheapest 4k monitor (27" Philips 276E). Connected to Mac Book via some cheap DP-miniDP cord and it works perfectly - sharp image, no problems of any sort. I doubt if most of the other laptops from that era, or even slighlty newer would allow me to do that.

by nkoren 7y ago

darrmit 7y ago

I came here to say the same. I do have more issues with macOS than I did, say, 5 years ago. However, the constant Windows update cycle is a nightmare and Linux still can't seem to get battery life and things like Bluetooth (audio inputs, etc.) quite right, so I'm left with hoping that Apple gets their stuff back together. Operating system stability just seems to have declined in general in the last 3-5 years.

computerex 7y ago
Have you tried using tlp/powertop? I'd say my battery life is pretty comparable to Windows after having done some optimizations using aforementioned tools.
- darrmit 7y ago
  I have not, but will check it out. My problem is I love the idea of being able to tinker and get to a super stable, lovable mobile Linux setup, but I just don't have time right now. Maybe someday. :)
  - computerex 7y ago
    I think with tlp/powertop you can leave settings to their (good) default values. It's just a matter of installing these tools.
  - tsuraan 7y ago
    It's not much tinkering at all. Once you've installed powertop (probably just "dnf install powertop" or "apt install powertop", or whatever your favorite flavour is), you can just run "sudo powertop --auto-tune"[0]. If you do like to tinker, you could maybe write your own init script to run that on boot, but your distro probably included one already. 0 - https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/ https://www.systutorials.com/docs/linux/man/8-powertop/
- i_am_proteus 7y ago
  Can confirm. Battery life on my T420 went from about 3 to about 7 hours after installing. No manual config necessary. I mention "T420" because I think it's pretty manufacturer-specific. ThinkPad and XPS usually have good hardware support on commmon Linux distributions, but other laptops may not.
- xtracto 7y ago
  As with the other comment saying "have you used X/Y command" it is funny, given the original article. Someone should setup a list of all these "tricks" and non-standard "patches" that people have to use in Linux after installing it so that it works decently. Nowadays my desktop PC is a Linux (Mint) one. I like it, and I use it for several things, including gaming. But I don't kid me, the usability is utter crap, and coming from a 25 year yourny with Linux, it is still playing catchup with regards to hardware control (audio, bluetooth, wifi, etc).
  - computerex 7y ago
    Why do you think the usability is crap? Can you be more specific? I haven't had any issues with audio/bluetooth/wifi and many many people at my workplace use linux for development and I haven't heard about audio/wifi related issues since maybe 10 years ago.
    - feanaro 7y ago
      Yeah, I don't get it. I set it up for a lot of my family, including grandpas and whatnot, taught them how to upgrade packages and basically forgot about it. With Windows that was never possible.
    - xtracto 7y ago
      Sure: - bluetooth headphones refuse to connect half of the time (they work 100% on my phone and on windows on same hardware) - audio: sometimes sound just refuses to play.. have to restart graphical session. - upgrade: after upgrading mint to latest version, restarting got stuck in the terminal: it was missing some package. Had to manually pat install it. - Android studio/mobile: have to fight for the OS to recognize connected mobile for adb. - Game: CS:GO sometimes sound is either choppy or "fixing" it in game settings makes it leggy. Same game in steam as well works fine in windows in same hardware. And the list of thousand paper cuts could go on. Don't get me wrong, I still use Mint as my main OS in that computer. I have always been a Linux/BSD enthusiast. When I was in my 20s I enjoyed a lot tinkering with it, to make X11R6 work, then winmodems, then sound cards (with alsa), then wifi , etc. But nowadays at 37, I care less and less about dealing with that kind of thing.
lostmsu 7y ago
Can you elaborate on what do you mean by Windows update cycle? I have a Mac Mini, that I rarely touch to check a new release of something on Mac, and practically every time I have to use it, an update is pending. Not sure how this is worse, than Windows.
- airstrike 7y ago
  With Windows it feels the same way, except a lot of what Windows Update does runs silently in the background, sometimes during your most precious computing hours with no way to stop it except force quitting through the Task Manager. And half the time the updates fail. And when you quickly want to shut down sometimes Windows also forces an update...
  - lostmsu 7y ago
    There is the active hours setting, and I have not seen an update fail in quite a long time (several years).
    - ulises314 7y ago
      This, everyone is complaining on how bad desktop OSes are now but even windows is great now, compared to mobile devices, desktop is heaven.
    - tekknik 7y ago
      last i checked microsoft still doesn’t have scheduled boot times (granted this would likely be a bios setting on windows boxes) so i’d have to leave my PC on overnight to run the updates. it’s a bandaid, not a fix for the update problem.
      - GordonS 7y ago
        You can use Task Scheduler to stop/start your PC at specific times.
        7y ago
erikbye 7y ago
Regarding Windows update cycle, you have the option of using LTSC, pausing updates for up to 35 days (yes, that's a built-in option now), or adjust update settings with GPO.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  You’re always fighting upstream that way. Even at a massive enterprise with a 9 figure account relationship with Microsoft, they just won’t fix issues after a few weeks of release. The product groups will rope a dope you until you hit some product cycle milestone and then tell you to fuck off. The company has laid off or reallocated everyone and moved them to Azure. It’s Windows latest or bust. Since Apple is a shitshow with Mac and Google is too mercurial to rely on, dumpster fire is the new normal. If you can do it, the smart money right now is to invest in iOS and watch Chrome.
  - derefr 7y ago
    I mean, the GP and most people who hear "fighting the Windows update cycle" assume you mean "fighting against being forced to interrupt your work and reboot to update" (the constant complain among Windows users) rather than something about intentionally avoiding new versions of the OS. If you were an OS company and it were possible to force everyone to be running on master (and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities), wouldn't you, too? But even then, this isn't true: > It’s Windows latest or bust Windows IoT Core is pretty stable. Wouldn't want your ATM or billboard rebooting every night. There are folks at Microsoft who remember how to do LTS software. They just don't think it's a good idea in a consumer product.
    - a1369209993 7y ago
      > and thereby not have any security vulnerabilities That's not what running on master means. It means that all of your (many) security vulnerabilities are ones you don't know about[1] and random things keep breaking for no reason (and when you report them, it breaks in a way that's just different enough to let your bug report be closed as FIXED). 1: except (if you pay attention) the ones the developer advertises as 'features', like ssh with a default password of "password" baked into the kernel for "inventory management".
fragmede 7y ago
What Linux has gotten right (on my hardware), is wake from suspend. That laptop never has problems with that. What's frustrating, is my work MBP laptop, can't seem to reliably wake from sleep (inc using my external monitor).

computerex 7y ago

I started using linux in 2006 and I'd say linux is best its ever been. I used to have so many problems with my graphics drivers, now things usually work out of the box. I have not had any problems with multi-monitor support, although I have heard that HDPI screen experience still needs to be refined. I have a macbook pro running Mojave, and my gaming desktop runs Windows, my personal and favorite device runs Manjaro linux. I use all 3 main operating systems regularly and I'd say the linux story suits me and my needs best.

fqw3b58w4n6 7y ago
Same here, about 2008 for me. The complaints I have are pretty minimal (audio is a bit wonky sometimes, but nothing difficult to resolve; hilariously enough my laptop does have wifi issues, but I don't care, I'm plugged in 99% of the time anyways). To be fair, I'm using the exact opposite of an out of the box experience. I've been refining my setup for years and using it is truly a joy to me.
- KibbutzDalia 7y ago
  So you have wonky audio and bad Wi-Fi and you think it’s fine? That’s very odd, in my reading of it.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
Seconded. Graphics drivers work OOTB and the Open ATI/AMD drivers are actually pretty good. Steam (with Proton) work well for most games save for the newest AAA titles, and WINE is pretty solid. Base install Fedora isn't too bad, and Linux Mint pretty good as well.

kn100 7y ago

W.r.t your hidpi/non-hidpi issue - a 'proper' solution is slowly making its way out of the woodwork. Wayland apparently will allow us to solve this problem, but in the meantime here's my solution if it'll help you. I have a 4k dell xps 13 and a 2k monitor. I have this script set up to run on boot. https://gist.github.com/kn100/7193667d393fcf34d4d5c6c359a695af https://gist.github.com/kn100/7193667d393fcf34d4d5c6c359a695... What this does is it forces your internal display to run at exactly quarter resolution (ie 1600x900), and adds your second display at its native resolution to the setup. Since the panel is running at a multiple of its native resolution, it still looks fine, if not quite as pixel perfect. This has the nice side effect of making the laptop feel a bit faster since it's driving a quarter of the pixels it usually has to drive. This makes the monitor panel do the scaling too, which is nice. With this setup, both displays will be running at a roughly similar DPI which will make scaling issues... a non issue! I hope this helps.

quincunx 7y ago
You're very kind to offer help like this, but from the article: "... the only way to fix it is to find terminal commands from discussion forums, type them in and hope for the best" quote seems apt.
- fiddlerwoaroof 7y ago
  There's a tool called arandr that'll let you do most of this visually: I use it everytime I rearrange my monitors.
Pizzaputer 7y ago
This is insane. I thought issues like these were solved problems ? Is there no distro/display server that just works for a setup such as this?
- boudin 7y ago
  The wayland protocol solve this. I do think that at least gnome 3.34+ and wlroot based window managers support this, but it needs to be confirmed as i don't have this setup and just used ratios on same dpi monitors. Not sure how it works with X based app also that are run through xwayland.

mattigames 7y ago

Opinions are a funny thing, I find MacOs vastly inferior to Windows, but I grew up with Windows so I'm biased that way; I'm betting you and people claiming 'the good old days of mac' are biased too.

geerlingguy 7y ago
There were periods where the outlook and software quality was bleak... and there were periods where the outlook and software quality was amazing. Right now is not anywhere near as bad as it’s been a few times in the past (pre-OS X, early OS X days especially)... but if someone doesn’t turn around the ship things are headed that way currently.
- nkoren 7y ago
  Ironically, in those days I was at my OS happiest. I'd built a multi-core BeOS monster, and felt like I was a decade ahead of the rest of the world. Two decades later, and I still can't find as performant or useable a system as that.
  - waddlesplash 7y ago
    Haiku? :)
jonwinstanley 7y ago
I grew up using Windows and after 20 years switched to Mac and could not believe I had waited for so long. What parts of Windows do you prefer over MacOS?
- lostmsu 7y ago
  Mostly hardware support. I need my NVidia GPUs until AMD is on par in TensorFlow performance.
- mattigames 7y ago
  I remember the few times I had to interact with MacOs to be really frustrating but I don't remember all the specifics, I remember actionable buttons being too small (so easier to miss), and the top bar changing options depending on what app is focused to bother me as well, because thats and extra click (to make the top bar appear) for every interaction there when you have 2 apps side to side. In general from what I know the key functional advantages Windows has are: Software from 15 years ago still works fine without issues, real Linux inside by default (Ubuntu on WLS), videogames.

llimllib 7y ago

I was linux-only from 2002 to about 2009, on laptops, when I switched to Mac. I just set up a linux desktop for kicks the last couple of weeks, and it doesn't seem to me to be any better than it was a decade ago. * No way to adjust mouse scroll speed; official answer seems to be "don't want that". (Or install imwheel and change your mouse scroll to be equal to hitting the down button (!) which breaks other stuff) * To make an icon on the favorites bar in gnome, you have to edit a .desktop text file! Madness. I mean, I'm a programmer, so I'm capable of it, but it's seriously annoying * modifying keyboard shortcuts is extremely difficult; I really wish linux had a karabiner equivalent * searching for help usually yields results that are half a decade or more old, and it's very difficult to figure out if it's current advice or not * installing a gnome-shell extension was way more difficult than it should be * brew isn't the best, but on linux I need to use both brew _and_ apt because you can't reliably get anything approaching up-to-date software with apt I remain reasonably happy with it, but Mac is still so far ahead of it in terms of usability it's wild.

erikbye 7y ago
Many of these complaints are resolved by using another desktop environment, e.g. KDE. Others of the distro (use another one if you want up-to-date packages).
- Frondo 7y ago
  I last used KDE about a year ago, so I'm not sure if this is still a problem, but even KDE doesn't let you slow down mouse cursor speed, only make it faster. Is that still the case? They didn't even have a slider for controlling mouse speed, only a numerical text entry. It boggles the mind.
  - palebluedot 7y ago
    Settings->Input Devices->Mouse There is a slider for adjusting pointer speed.
  - MegaDeKay 7y ago
    The "Mouse" Systems Setting I have on screen on my up-to-date KDE right now has a slider for pointer speed with no numerical entry. There is only a small handful of other settings that quite useful (acceleration profile, invert scroll direction, and a couple other things). KDE has been working hard on usability lately.

Aperocky 7y ago

I’ve seen people use Dell XPS, but the huge bottom bezel and lack of macs touchpad threw me off. At this point, it seem like the only selling point of Apple being it’s touchpad. And even everyone knows it there doesn’t seem to be anyone catching up. I even managed to play Diablo 2 with just touchpad. I really don’t like the direction apple is heading though, starting with the pointless touchbar. I hope some day other company can create a touchpad rivaling Mac and Linux push a patch that can make use of that touchpad in the same way/same quality that Mac does

computerex 7y ago
The keyboard also feels like slamming your fingers against a wall. There is no travel distance, and a speck of dust can disable keys. There are also thermal issues with the chassis, and the lack of ports is also a hassle for developers. I totally agree though that the touchpad experience is the best on Apple hardware + osx. Pure joy to use the Apple touchpad, really wish other manufacturers would take a leaf from Apple.
erikbye 7y ago
I manage fine with the touchpad on my Surface Book 2, not as good as Apple's, but certainly usable. Tap clicks work well.
nkoren 7y ago
The XPS is alright. Its touchpad hasn't been as big a transition as I'd feared -- although the loss of kinetic scrolling is certainly lamented. My main issues with the XPS are: - Only slightly quieter than a vacuum cleaner. - Unless you want to use the fancy GPU in Linux, in which case it's louder than a vacuum cleaner and has a very short battery life. (I keep the GPU disabled) - Camera is placed at the bottom of the bezel, which is an ideal location for observing your fingers on the keyboard, or if you give the screen a jaunty tilt, peering far up your nostrils. Serves no other purpose. I really can't fathom the process by which that camera got greenlit. I use an external clip-on camera instead. A Mac would certainly be better. For the same amount of power and storage, it would also be 3x the price, and (in recent years) probaly less robust.

shams93 7y ago

The fixes for meltdown/specter cause some real slowdown of Intel performance, why is my quad core i7 so creaky compared to my old a6 with and, the i7 should smoke an old and a6 but thanks to these hardware bugs the i7 is creaky and slow.

erikbye 7y ago

How is macOS any better? Default macOS, without third-party software. Does vanilla macOS even have keyboard-based window management yet? Does it still have weird modals where you're forced to use the mouse to select an option?

machello13 7y ago
> Does it still have weird modals where you're forced to use the mouse to select an option? I don't think I've ever encountered a modal like this. Not with "Use keyboard navigation to move focus between controls" turned on. By keyboard-based window management you mean being able to tile windows? That can be added with a third-party app pretty easily, but I think it's much a much less fundamental problem than those pointed out in Linux.
- erikbye 7y ago
  So that answers my question? You still, in 2019, cannot even move a window/app on the desktop in vanilla macOS using your keyboard? That, to me, is crazy. How can a company with the resources of Apple not implement this basic feature? Simply the equivalent of Windows' win + arrow keys would be a huge improvement. I know third party software offers such features and more, I am simply not interested, some are even paid software. I need no such software with Windows or the Linux DEs I use. Besides, it's just one example of crazy things missing from macOS. > but I think it's much a much less fundamental problem than those pointed out in Linux. What fundamental problems?
  - ben509 7y ago
    > You still, in 2019, cannot even move a window/app on the desktop in vanilla macOS using your keyboard? > That, to me, is crazy. How can a company with the resources of Apple not implement this basic feature? That's one solution to the problem of selecting the thing you want to work on. Apple's solution has been to throw hardware at the problem. You have gestures, expose, mission control, etc. all available from a really good touchpad. It would be crazy for a linux distro to take that approach because they can't bundle a high quality touchpad with every laptop they sell. I definitely don't claim their approach that they will do best of class support for a pointing-heavy workload will suit everyone, just that it makes sense for a combined OS and hardware vendor.

puranjay 7y ago

I don't know how we came to this point. Laptops in 2019 certainly suck across the board. A good keyboard is almost impossible to find and reliability isn't a thing we even consider. In contrast, I don't think there has ever been a better time for desktops. Mechanical keyboards have become fashionable again, AMD has brought the fight to Intel's table, and GPUs have never been faster and cheaper.

Mindwipe 7y ago
Although all major OSes are still a massive pain even on Desktops currently.
- ulises314 7y ago
  Really? I run Raspbian, Windows and FreeBSD on my home on different machines for different purposes, and though all three have their weaknesses, they are much better than they were two decades ago.
- KibbutzDalia 7y ago
  Have you tried Arch Linux, by the way?

rayiner 7y ago

Yes. My 2012 retina MacBook was getting long in the tooth last year, so I got an X1 Carbon with all the bells and whistles. Remarkably, the on board LTE just plain never worked. (It would randomly die after a few uses requiring a hard reboot.) The screen bezel delaminated and has to be replaced. Developed three dead pixels after a few months of use. Recently started rebooting randomly with a full battery. My dad had similar problems with an X1 Carbon which he bought on my recommendation. And Windows 10 is still bad. So many apps are not DPI aware. Windows Store apps are better in this regard, but often are stripped down and bereft of features. (Out of the box it was unusable. I installed LTSC which made things better. But I haven’t had to reinstall my OS, except to sell a machine, since I first moved to Mac from Linux in 2007.) My wife, by contrast, bit the bullet and got a 2018 MacBook Pro to replace her 2012 retina. It took her a bit to adjust to the new keyboard, but she’s a much happier camper than I am.

mumblemumble 7y ago
> So many apps are not DPI aware. I tried switching to a Windows laptop at work a couple years ago, and bounced off of it (returning to an ancient MacBook) basically entirely because of this. That, in combination with the laptop's 4K monitor, conspired to make it impossible for me to read text in some applications I used without a magnifying glass. I suspect that Windows might be totally fine with so many apps not being DPI aware if laptop manufacturers weren't also doing things like creating 15" 4K monitors.
dkonofalski 7y ago
>So many apps are not DPI aware. I tried to use Windows on my laptop to run some ETL software, not because I was trying to get off of macOS but because that particular tool only exists on Windows for right now, and running it on a 4K display or a HiDPI display makes it completely unusable. The fonts for the icons and everything else are so unbelievably tiny and using the scaling features just makes everything bigger. If Windows had a good way of dealing with apps that aren't HiDPI aware, it wouldn't be an issue but even the tools that they do have aren't consistent in how they fix the issue. Scaling the UI by 200% isn't a good fix.
- 7y ago

mikestew 7y ago

Windows 10 works marginally better. Both remain vastly inferior to MacOs. That's where I'm stuck. We're all-in at our house on Apple stuff. I'm no Windows hater per se, hell, I used to work at Microsoft and my wife still does. And there was a time that I'd say about Mac OS: "this is what an operating system should be". Oh, you most certainly disagree, but bear with me. I don't say that anymore. Too much half-assed shit, and yada yada, no need to repeat it here; macOS ain't what it used to be. But what else am I going to use? I keep rootin' for Linux, but every time I boot one of my VMs, well, it ain't replacing macOS just yet. Windows (at least the NT variants) when I worked for MSFT was a perfectly servicable operating system. It wasn't Unix, but it was better than classic Mac OS, and pretty damned solid. But I have to use Windows 10 at work now, and I fucking hate it. Again, no need to repeat it all here, I just do. Yeah, Mac hardware sucks, too. I guess when my 2012 retina dies, I'll have to...oh, wait a minute, I'm still plugging away on a seven year old laptop? That I've dragged all over God's creation and use daily? Still as functional as the day I bought it? I dunno, will I find a better alternative come replacement time? Or has the quality of everything else gone down, too? I know, I know, X1 Carbon, XPS; but then my gut seems to think that I hear just as much complaining about those, too. So in truth, when the 2012 MBP dies, I have no idea what I'm going to do to replace it. EDIT: thanks, folks. Don't know why I hadn't considered used 2015. If a 2012 is fine, I ought to be tickled with a 2015, right? :-) Sidenote: "which listed the magical indentation that purges reserved space." Unless you're using Python, I think the author wants to replace "indentation" with "incantation".

e40 7y ago
So in truth, when the 2012 MBP dies, I have no idea what I'm going to do to replace it. There are used MBPs available from various reputable sources. That's my goto at work, when someone's laptop dies.
- wwweston 7y ago
  Would love a list of any reputable sources... the keyboard is starting to fail on my beloved mid 2012 (last model with matte screen!).

phatfish 7y ago

I have Fedora 30 running KDE as a desktop in a VM and a laptop. In the VM its actually very nice. Dolphin is nicer than Explorer, with tabs and better view options. The desktop customization options work well and I can set it up very similar to a Windows task bar as I am used to. The most annoying issue I've noticed is that copy and paste would stop working cross application sometimes (pretty poor). But turning off an "auto copy on select" option seems to fix that. Still an issue as its broken by default. The laptop (AMD Matebook) is a different story. There is just not the hardware testing capacity that Microsoft and their hardware vendors provide. So kernel updates will break hibernate/sleep, or it has never worked. The trackpad will stop responding to taps after resuming, and other issues. There are also some minor graphical issues but that's mainly down to AMD drivers. KDE is the best its ever been. The issues come from hardware issues that can never be fully tested and fixed without a vendor taking Linux support seriously.

0b0001 7y ago
There are other things under the hood. Things that a desktop OS can't do anymore, not today. Your password manager kWallet is, once unlocked at system start, an unencrypted file where any application can access any password. If kMail fetches a signed mail in background, you'll be unexpectedly prompted to accept the certificate with no indication where the pop-up came from. Password dialogues have no priority whatsoever. When a password dialogue pops up just before another application starts, you're likely to enter your password into the wrong dialogue.

fortran77 7y ago

Windows 10 on the "happy path" (the right hardware) works very well. My desktop machine is a box by ThinkMate (dual Xeon, 256 GB Ram, Dual 2080 video cards, dual 5K monitors). It "just works" -- including all the power management functions sleep, hibernate, monitor sleep, wake on ethernet, fan control, etc. Super quiet unless all the GPUs are running full blast. My laptop is a Surface Book. Again, it "just works". Plug in a monitor, share the desktop, sleep and wake. And other vendors are getting better at not putting in crapware that breaks windows, like hard-to-uninstall 30-day trial versions that nag you, or silly "extra keys" or help software (IBM used to have a key that brought up an IBM help system that was completely useless--and it used to get pressed accidentally.) I switched from Mac to Windows when Windows 10 came out and haven't looked back. It "just works."

Kaos-Industries 7y ago
Props for escaping the Apple cult for Windows, but I'm sorry, how much RAM? Why does anyone need that much RAM? And more importantly, how much did it cost?
- heelix 7y ago
  My work threadripper was 128G @ $1100(usd) last month for non-ecc ram. Server at twice that decency is likely a pretty penny.
- fortran77 7y ago
  The whole box was about 8K (w/o the monitors). Go to ThinkMate.com and price it for ECC ram. Prices change often. It's less than you think! We do signal processing software in C++ and GPGPU so we like a lot of ram to hold samples. I probably only needed half of it. I think people who want to compile Rust also need hundreds of GB or RAM....
vbezhenar 7y ago
Did you ever get ECC corrected error?
- 7y ago

jamesponddotco 7y ago

Been using macOS and Ubuntu for years now, and while I try to make Ubuntu my primary operating system so I can ditch my slow MacBook Air 2018, I always end up going back to it. Look, I love Ubuntu. Heck, I am a recognized Ubuntu Member, was the leader of the LoCo Team for my country for a while, helped a few universities in my state switch to Ubuntu from Windows, have a plaque signed by Mark Shuttleworth acknowledging my contributions and everything. But macOS is simply better, even though it sucks monkey balls right now — better for me, of course. My Ubuntu machine — which I built to edit photos and game — currently runs on a Threadripper 2950X with two VEGA 64 GPUs. It should be a beast, and it is, but the entire computer freezes from time to time and requires a hard reboot to come back to life. Nothing I could find in the logs so far. Sometimes that happens once a week, sometimes it happens five times a day — heck, I had it happen right after a reboot once. While the MacBook Air chokes when I open more than say, 45 tabs in Safari, I never had similar issues, and I only reboot this computer when I forget to charge it. You can say Apple is dead all you want, but there will always be people like me that will go the Apple route because they are tired of troubleshooting shit all day — I spent a fair amount of time doing that in my earlier days, and I spend all day doing that at work, so why would I want to do that 24/7?

rusk 7y ago
> the entire computer freezes from time to time Hate to point out what may be obvious, but since this is a self-build, have you entirely eliminated hardware issues? Bad connections or components that just don’t jive properly together? Just saying cause the first thing that came to mind when you described the issue is something similar I had a while back with mismatched RAM; it doesnt sound as though the comparison controls for these kinds of causes.
- jamesponddotco 7y ago
  Yep, already did rule these things out — it also doesn't happen in Ubuntu 18.04 or Windows, only on Ubuntu 19.04. My guess is that this is a kernel or GPU driver issue, since it doesn't happen in Ubuntu 18.04, but it will take time to find exactly which version of the kernel get this to stop.
7y ago

asjw 7y ago

Oddly enough my experience in years of computing on different platforms, including some exotic one, is the exact opposite. For me MacOS is the worst when it comes to external monitors. It kinds works good enough, but never great. Especially with old hardware.

linguae 7y ago

I wholeheartedly agree. The state of personal computing in 2019 is one of uncomfortable compromises. I'm still using my Macs; I have a 2013 Mac Pro that I regularly use at home, a 2013 MacBook Air that I also regularly use whenever I'm not at home, and a work-issued 2018 MacBook Pro that I use all the time. I believe that the macOS experience and value proposition has regressed from what it was earlier this decade. I resent the move toward non-upgradeable RAM and storage, and I resent the higher prices, especially with the 2019 Mac Pro, which starts at $5999 (compare that to the $2999 entry-level price of the 2013 Mac Pro). I am also concerned about the direction of the Mac; I am concerned that within the next five years the Mac will be a locked-down platform with some allowances for programmability. I feel that the writing is on the wall regarding the future of the Mac, and eventually I'll have to change platforms. I've been testing the waters with Windows 10 and Linux. I have a Dell XPS 9570 with Windows 10 Professional that I sometimes use. It's an excellent machine (I like it better than my work-issued 2018 MacBook Pro), and I really like Windows' Linux subsystem, but Windows 10 has its annoyances, most notably the ads and the mandatory updates. I also think Windows 10's interface looks gaudy with its oversized bars (especially the title bars), although Windows 10 doesn't look as bad on a 4K monitor. I also use the Linux Mint distribution on a ThinkPad T430 that I use for web browsing, traveling, and some light programming. I like the Cinnamon desktop, and I can generally find replacements for many of the macOS applications I use. However, I miss the fit-and-finish of macOS. I miss the consistency between applications found in macOS. I miss macOS's pervasive support for PDFs, and macOS's superior font rendering compared to Linux. I miss macOS's Dictionary.app, which I regularly use for both English and Japanese; so far I have not found anything like it on other platforms. So, while I could sell my Macs and switch entirely to Windows 10 and Linux tomorrow and still remain productive, I will lose many of the positive aspects of the Mac that keep me on the platform. macOS is still the desktop that emphasizes fit-and-finish and consistency among applications, and I will lose this fit-and-finish and consistency when switching to other platforms. Honestly, I think the time is ripe for another operating system, one that picks up where macOS has left off yet is not restricted to a specific vendor's hardware. Personally I believe the desktop operating system of the future will be one that draws from some ideas from the past that have never been fully realized. The high-level interface will be inspired by the Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines, preferably those from the classic Mac era (I admit, as much as I like Mac OS X, I believe that the classic Mac OS era was actually superior from a usability standpoint, even if its infrastructure wasn't solid). Application software should be built using components inspired by Apple's OpenDoc project. The system should be an object system inspired by Smalltalk or CLOS that enables pervasive programmability of the environment and supports an objects-all-the-way-down environment, and the operating system should provide a REPL for programmers. The difficult part will be how to make such an operating system happen, since building an operating system is a large effort, and I believe part of the reason why the desktop computing situation in 2019 is the way that it is has to do with market forces. Still, I'm dreaming of such an operating system being developed.

fsociety 7y ago

Use Fedora! It's a significantly better user-experience and has better support for hi-DPI screens.

helpPeople 7y ago

Windows is inferior to MacOS? Bold claim given Enterprise exclusively uses Windows. Your opinion might tarnish your reputation

oriolid 7y ago
Enterprise is also the inspiration behind Dilbert. I agree that Windows is nowhere as bad as it was in the 90s and early 2000s and OS X isn't as good as it was in 2014, but software development on Windows is still slightly painful.
- ahartmetz 7y ago
  Windows 2000 was actually pretty nice, it was my favorite Windows. It was an already quite refined member of the NT series and also the last no-nonsense NT. XP felt garish and annoying, even though the actual technology improved overall, especially with the service packs.
  - oriolid 7y ago
    Windows 2000 SP3 was felt really nice compared to constant crashing with 95/98 and XP's ugly UI and again increased crashes. But if you try 2000 now, it's clumsy and it was only SP3 that was finally stable. XP could be easily improved by just switching to classic UI style and any wallpaper other than the default teletubbyland. Still I think 7 was the first Windows that didn't need reboot at least once per day and would't give blue screens.

haolez 7y ago

I’m a long time Linux user and I’ve recently switched to a Chromebook (I wanted a huge batter life). I intended to install Linux on it, but ChromeOS is very mature nowadays and it supports both Android and Linux apps (even graphic ones, like VSCode). I’m sticking to it for now. The experience is incredibly polished.

fragmede 7y ago
Chromebooks are "Linux" depending on which definition of Linux you want to use, and getting a Linux environment with some root access is possible without disabling Google's code signing - a VM is run, where you have root, with all the overhead that implies. (I hear it's fine when running on powerful hardware, but it's a bad time on cheap Chromebooks.) It's not really root, eg, you can't change the wifi MAC address of the host. (Yes, it's 2019, and I still find myself doing that. Yes it's stupid.) You can disable the code signing and get true root, without having to fully go in and install a desktop Linux, with all that implies (positive and negative). There's a boot screen that can be disabled but that requires opening up the hardware. It's certainly nice, and a viable option these days, but I wanted to give caveats, as it's imperfect. I used to be a Thinkpad person (I miss my trackpoint dearly) but I'm on a Chromebook these days.
- haolez 7y ago
  By Linux I meant “Linux DEs”. Thanks for clarifying.

Nursie 7y ago

>> I've got an HDPI laptop and I want to plug into an old non-HDPI era monitor. Doesn't work. At all? That's unusual... I've got a 4K screen and a 1920x1200 screen next to each other, I use XFCE. I had to fart around with xrandr for a couple of hours but now I have the desktop working better than Windows or OS X - no fuzzy font rendering when moving windows between monitors like OS X, no weird size jumps like Windows.

robocat 7y ago

I had a Dell XPS15, Ubuntu 18.04, with a set of fixes applied (I think GitHub JackHack96 dell-xps-9570-ubuntu-respin). It worked OK with either 1080p or 4k external monitors - this was my everyday development machine. No way was it perfect, but it was usable. Windows 10 has other issues. I don't use Mac, but I could see it clearly is far better at dealing with HiDpi monitors.

fit2rule 7y ago

I've been a "MacBook" user since 2002 (tiBook), with subsidiary Linux machines playing second fiddle for when I'm at the Homebase. Before that, I was 80% Linux and 20% SGI/MIPS for most of the 90's. I Wish someone would make a Linux laptop as physically appealing as the 2018 MacBook Pro. I have a GPD Pocket. Its pretty damn close. Gimme the same (or better, naturally) specs, but better form-factor than the MacBook Pro, and I will switch immediately. Alas, until then, I'm using a MacBook. READY TO SWITCH THOUGH! ITS THE HARDWARE, NOT THE SOFTWARE!

robbie-c 7y ago

I have the same Dell Windows/Ubuntu setup. In case this helps you, I found that whilst plugging in a DisplayPort monitor into the USB-C port didn't work, I could get my 4k monitor to work either by going through a USB-C Dock made by Dell, or by using an Hdmi cable. I also managed to get a 2015 MBP second-hand quite cheaply, and although the specs are a bit weaker it is a lot more pleasant to use.

pier25 7y ago

My main machine is an iMac but I recently setup a Windows desktop machine for making music and gaming because none of the curren Apple offering fit my needs. Even in 2019 a lot of Windows software doesn't support scaling correctly. It seems like outside of the very big and popular applications everything is a win32 app from 20 years ago.

ernie24 7y ago

I am stil amazed at whan my late 2013 Mac Book Pro can do. Recently I've bought one of the cheapest 4k monitor (27" Philips 276E). Connected to Mac Book via some cheap DP-miniDP cord and it works perfectly - sharp image, no problems of any sort. I doubt if most of the other laptops from that era, or even slighlty newer would allow me to do that.