5 ms·

Tilton

131 points by breck 7y ago

inamberclad 7y ago
I like how the website of the author of a book titled "How JavaScript Works" apparently has no JavaScript on his website.
- antisemiotic 7y ago
  A doctor doesn't have to be sick with all the diseases they know about.
  - ljm 7y ago
    It would suck to be an oncologist if that was true.
  - e12e 7y ago
    True. But I was reminded of this quote from Firefly: Jubal Early: You oughta be shot, or stabbed, lose a leg... to be a surgeon. You know? Know the kind of pain you're dealing with. They make Psychiatrists get psychoanalyzed before they can get certified, but they don't make surgeons get cut on. That seem right to you?
- sureaboutthis 7y ago
  Like almost all web developers of today, you think one should use javascript "just because" and not for any technical need.
- mythz 7y ago
  Maybe Douglas Crockford [1] knows JS well enough not to use it on content-only websites - instead prefers using clean semantic minimal markup that will work on every browser. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Crockford https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Crockford
johnmarcus 7y ago
I liked Json.org, another site by the author.
kizer 7y ago
So where’s the spec
- shakna 7y ago
  The closest you'll get is probably this [0]. Which though not enough spec-like to guarantee compatibility would probably be enough to make a rough implementation. [0] https://www.crockford.com/tilton/tilton.html https://www.crockford.com/tilton/tilton.html
  - fuball63 7y ago
    There's also C++ source here: http://www.crockford.com/tilton/index.html http://www.crockford.com/tilton/index.html
shakna 7y ago
> I do not expect anyone to use Tilton, but I use Tilton every day. char* newString = new char[newMaxLength]; memmove(newString, string, maxLength); delete string; string = newString; It's great that it works for Crockford, but he's right. Peeking into Tilton reveals a tool obviously built to work well enough for a developer. That's fine. But nobody else should probably touch it.
- a_t48 7y ago
  I’m going to be that guy - why not make a PR or at least an issue? Is he not allowed to put out a good tool that might need improvement in hope of others either using it or improving it?
  - shakna 7y ago
    Why? The tool works fine for it's purpose - as a tool in Crockford's hands. It just shouldn't be blindly trusted as production-ready for anyone not intimately acquainted with the interiors. (That and Tilton isn't even in VC as far as I can tell.)
  - aaronblohowiak 7y ago
    I don't think he thinks it is a good tool. >At this point I should have noticed that this language was going to be inexcusably ugly, but astonishingly, I did not notice at the time. I kept pushing on, inspired by better languages like TRAC and LISP. I determined that this was the wrong approach for dealing with browser incompatibility, but I completed the language anyway. I named it Tilton after Robert Tilton, a television faith healer and speaker of tongues. I believe that Tilton is the ugliest programming language that was not intended to be an ugly programming language.
Udo 7y ago
> The convention of combining angle brackets with special characters was popularized by PHP. PHP makes use of the <? ?> notation which lends itself to good integration with text editors, since this is the canonical XML syntax specifically reserved for processing instructions. In this context, because it's not PHP-specific, there would be nothing wrong with using <? ?> for your own language or preprocessor, and I'd rather prefer it for the additional reason that it's easier to find and type a question mark on many kayboard layouts. If I ever attempt to make a web language again, that's what I'd probably stick with. That being said, whatever works for you. It's certainly better than what I came up with in the late nineties when I made my first CGI-based HTML preprocessor... I used to encase everything in $ signs, which looked extremely messy and entertained our web designers to no end because they assumed I was thinking about money a lot. However, at the time, that notation did have some advantages because web layout editors had a lesser chance of destroying it as compared to anything weird with angle brackets :D
pjc50 7y ago
> I do not expect anyone to use Tilton, but I use Tilton every day I like the humility of this. And also the "build your own tools" philosophy, where they end up fit to your own hand. Web templating systems seem to be one of those things which are both so simple and so subject to aesthetic preference that everyone builds their own at least once in their career.
TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes
- rubyn00bie 7y ago
  Oh the memories... I remember how stoked I was when I finally found out I didn't have to edit each of my "HTML" pages by hand, or use some shitty templating object built into Frontpage or Dreamweaver, just to change my header or those wicked sweet affiliates.

131 points by breck 7y ago

I like how the website of the author of a book titled "How JavaScript Works" apparently has no JavaScript on his website.

antisemiotic 7y ago
A doctor doesn't have to be sick with all the diseases they know about.
- ljm 7y ago
  It would suck to be an oncologist if that was true.
- e12e 7y ago
  True. But I was reminded of this quote from Firefly: Jubal Early: You oughta be shot, or stabbed, lose a leg... to be a surgeon. You know? Know the kind of pain you're dealing with. They make Psychiatrists get psychoanalyzed before they can get certified, but they don't make surgeons get cut on. That seem right to you?
sureaboutthis 7y ago
Like almost all web developers of today, you think one should use javascript "just because" and not for any technical need.
mythz 7y ago
Maybe Douglas Crockford [1] knows JS well enough not to use it on content-only websites - instead prefers using clean semantic minimal markup that will work on every browser. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Crockford https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Crockford

johnmarcus 7y ago

I liked Json.org, another site by the author.

kizer 7y ago

So where’s the spec

shakna 7y ago
The closest you'll get is probably this [0]. Which though not enough spec-like to guarantee compatibility would probably be enough to make a rough implementation. [0] https://www.crockford.com/tilton/tilton.html https://www.crockford.com/tilton/tilton.html
- fuball63 7y ago
  There's also C++ source here: http://www.crockford.com/tilton/index.html http://www.crockford.com/tilton/index.html

shakna 7y ago

> I do not expect anyone to use Tilton, but I use Tilton every day. char* newString = new char[newMaxLength]; memmove(newString, string, maxLength); delete string; string = newString; It's great that it works for Crockford, but he's right. Peeking into Tilton reveals a tool obviously built to work well enough for a developer. That's fine. But nobody else should probably touch it.

a_t48 7y ago
I’m going to be that guy - why not make a PR or at least an issue? Is he not allowed to put out a good tool that might need improvement in hope of others either using it or improving it?
- shakna 7y ago
  Why? The tool works fine for it's purpose - as a tool in Crockford's hands. It just shouldn't be blindly trusted as production-ready for anyone not intimately acquainted with the interiors. (That and Tilton isn't even in VC as far as I can tell.)
- aaronblohowiak 7y ago
  I don't think he thinks it is a good tool. >At this point I should have noticed that this language was going to be inexcusably ugly, but astonishingly, I did not notice at the time. I kept pushing on, inspired by better languages like TRAC and LISP. I determined that this was the wrong approach for dealing with browser incompatibility, but I completed the language anyway. I named it Tilton after Robert Tilton, a television faith healer and speaker of tongues. I believe that Tilton is the ugliest programming language that was not intended to be an ugly programming language.

Udo 7y ago

> The convention of combining angle brackets with special characters was popularized by PHP. PHP makes use of the <? ?> notation which lends itself to good integration with text editors, since this is the canonical XML syntax specifically reserved for processing instructions. In this context, because it's not PHP-specific, there would be nothing wrong with using <? ?> for your own language or preprocessor, and I'd rather prefer it for the additional reason that it's easier to find and type a question mark on many kayboard layouts. If I ever attempt to make a web language again, that's what I'd probably stick with. That being said, whatever works for you. It's certainly better than what I came up with in the late nineties when I made my first CGI-based HTML preprocessor... I used to encase everything in $ signs, which looked extremely messy and entertained our web designers to no end because they assumed I was thinking about money a lot. However, at the time, that notation did have some advantages because web layout editors had a lesser chance of destroying it as compared to anything weird with angle brackets :D

pjc50 7y ago

> I do not expect anyone to use Tilton, but I use Tilton every day I like the humility of this. And also the "build your own tools" philosophy, where they end up fit to your own hand. Web templating systems seem to be one of those things which are both so simple and so subject to aesthetic preference that everyone builds their own at least once in their career.

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes

rubyn00bie 7y ago
Oh the memories... I remember how stoked I was when I finally found out I didn't have to edit each of my "HTML" pages by hand, or use some shitty templating object built into Frontpage or Dreamweaver, just to change my header or those wicked sweet affiliates.