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> The Telegram Open Network is probably dead. The emergency order stops Telegram from “delivering Grams to any persons, or taking any other steps to effect any

by jorvi 7y ago

> The Telegram Open Network is probably dead. The emergency order stops Telegram from “delivering Grams to any persons, or taking any other steps to effect any unregistered offer or sale of Grams.” This is worldwide — not just for the US. This completely blows my mind. How does the SEC have any power in telling a hypothetical European situated in Europe if they can or can't buy Gram from European sellers..?

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
That's how it generally works. If you're subject to a court's jurisdiction, and the court orders you not to do something, you can't dodge the order by just doing it in some place where the court doesn't have jurisdiction.
- jorvi 7y ago
  But that is not how it generally works. If Unilever gets told by a UK court they can't sell peanut butter because that court doesn't like peanut butter, it doesn't mean Unilever is suddenly forbidden from selling peanut butter in the USA. Edit: to clear up the analogy - UK courts don't have a say over what Unilever can and can't sell in USA jurisdiction. Likewise, the SEC can (should?) only regulate trade within USA jurisdiction or by USA entities. If Telegram wants to sell Grams on the UK market, Telegram should be able to tell the SEC to go pound sand, as any USA court orders don't mean jack outside that jurisdiction
  - shakna 7y ago
    > Edit: to clear up the analogy - UK courts don't have a say over what Unilever can and can't sell in USA jurisdiction. And the SEC is dealing with what is being sold in the US. > committed to flood the U.S. capital markets with billions of Grams by October 31, 2019 > sold more than 1 billion Grams to 39 U.S. Purchasers, raising $424.5 million from the U.S. market
    - jorvi 7y ago
      And the article says > This is worldwide — not just for the US I even quoted that in my parent comment.
throw_m239339 7y ago
As soon as you are doing business with American citizens, the SEC can and will get involved so I imagine Telegram sold Grams to americans.

by jorvi 7y ago

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

That's how it generally works. If you're subject to a court's jurisdiction, and the court orders you not to do something, you can't dodge the order by just doing it in some place where the court doesn't have jurisdiction.

jorvi 7y ago
But that is not how it generally works. If Unilever gets told by a UK court they can't sell peanut butter because that court doesn't like peanut butter, it doesn't mean Unilever is suddenly forbidden from selling peanut butter in the USA. Edit: to clear up the analogy - UK courts don't have a say over what Unilever can and can't sell in USA jurisdiction. Likewise, the SEC can (should?) only regulate trade within USA jurisdiction or by USA entities. If Telegram wants to sell Grams on the UK market, Telegram should be able to tell the SEC to go pound sand, as any USA court orders don't mean jack outside that jurisdiction
- shakna 7y ago
  > Edit: to clear up the analogy - UK courts don't have a say over what Unilever can and can't sell in USA jurisdiction. And the SEC is dealing with what is being sold in the US. > committed to flood the U.S. capital markets with billions of Grams by October 31, 2019 > sold more than 1 billion Grams to 39 U.S. Purchasers, raising $424.5 million from the U.S. market
  - jorvi 7y ago
    And the article says > This is worldwide — not just for the US I even quoted that in my parent comment.

throw_m239339 7y ago

As soon as you are doing business with American citizens, the SEC can and will get involved so I imagine Telegram sold Grams to americans.