6 ms·

Going to read those, but meanhile, any tips on proofing that you can offer here on HN?

blue_devil 7y ago
Keep your dough warm and cosy by wrapping it up. Conversely, if you live in a hot climate, put your dough in the fridge so as not to overproof it.
- OJFord 7y ago
  Are fridges warmer in warmer climates? I'd have assumed the target temperature was the same.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kop316 7y ago
Proofing? Control your temp and time if possible. Understand that a cooler temp will mean a longer proof. But also a longer proof gives you a more yeasty flavor. The first book flour water salt yeast was the first book I got, and they really help you learn how to bake yeast breads.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  Letting it sit in the fridge overnight works really well. It looks like nothing has happened but you get excellent over rise and a better taste.
throwaway8879 7y ago
It took me somewhere around 10 tries until I baked my first perfect bread. My overall advice would be to knead really well, unless you're doing a no-knead bread. As to your question about proofing, be gentle, let it rest in a warm spot for a fair length of time - but not too long so as to let it collapse. A lot of this will depend on the weather where you are.
- hansthehorse 7y ago
  I use the oven with the light on method. Works pretty well for me.
- jillesvangurp 7y ago
  Some of the best advice here is that you need gluten strength and structure. You develop strength over time (by waiting) or by helping the dough by doing some kneading. The first proof is about building gluten strength; the second and final proof is about puffing the final gluten structure. Structuring is basically a series of stretches and folds that shape the bread and arrange the stretches of gluten. You need gluten strength to be able to do that. Bread without structure won't puff up properly and will be dense. Bread that is over proofed, loses it's structure (it collapses) because when the yeast runs out of food and starts breaking down your gluten. Indeed the temperature, water content, yeast strength & amount all factor into what will happen. So, adjust timings in recipes accordingly and use the fridge to your advantage to slow things down. A slow cold proof builds more taste than a quick warm one.
- tasuki 7y ago
  I've baked no-knead bread before and I'm still confused - what exactly is the difference between bread that requires kneading and bread that doesn't require it?
  - MegaDeKay 7y ago
    The hallmarks of a no knead bread are primarily small amounts of yeast, long proofs, and high hydration. It is possible to convert one recipe to another, but you won't necessarily end up with the same result. For example, no knead develops its own gluten network as it rises, but the dough won't have the same strength as kneading five or ten minutes by hand will. So don't expect a nice tall sandwich bread out of a no knead recipe.
    - tasuki 7y ago
      Thank you!
xattt 7y ago
I’ve used the Cooks Illustrated recommendation of 3 cups of boiled water in a bread pan in an oven on a lower rack to make a makeshift proof box.
- ampulex 7y ago
  I use a variant of this: a 2-quart bowl with hot tap water sits in the microwave, which is small and relatively well insulated. I also use this when doing overnight pre-ferments during the winter.
awinder 7y ago
Many ovens have proof settings but they are basically just turning the light on and maybe running the circulator fan. That’s basically all I’ve needed for the minority of recipes I use that kinda require that. Most recipes don’t need anything other than time and a moderately temperatured kitchen, like the difference between 72°F and 80°F for most recipes just means a little extra time at the lower temperature. Basically what I’m saying is don’t buy a fancy proofing set up, maybe use the oven with the light bulb on, but probably just make sure you leave good time / wake up earlier ;-).
- ip26 7y ago
  My oven heats up to about 170F on proof mode, and my kitchen is frequently 60°F in winter, so a proofer wound up being a good buy for me. But to be sure it was not needed for just getting started.
hnick 7y ago
It's not what most people think of as bread but I tried Nancy's Silverton's pizza dough and enjoyed it a lot (link below). We did a test and letting it sit in the fridge covered for 3-4 days definitely improved it over the suggested same-day use in the recipe. A longer, slower rise seems to be the trend if you can find the time, and the fridge ensures a consistent temperature. It also made it easier to work with, the recipe was quite wet (I've heard wetter is better for pizza dough but it was super sticky). https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/10/nancy-silvertons-pizza-dough-recipe.html https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/10/nancy-silvertons...
joshvm 7y ago
Being consistent helps, that way you know whether its a technique problem or under/over-proofing. I live in a poorly insulated house and baking bread over winter is a pain. I ended up making my own proofing box - way cheaper than buying an off-the-shelf chamber (some of which are $100+). Get an expanded polystyrene crate [1], the sort of things market traders use, a seedling mat and a relay thermostat. Wire together and you have a reasonably accurate climate controlled box. The box will be the most expensive thing, but I bought a very large one (too large, to be honest) and it was about £35. For a single loaf, you only need an interior volume enough to fit something a standard plastic food container [3]. A 4L container will barely do a 1kg batch, so size up. This is essentially the design that Noma use in their fermentation book [2]. Hint: you can see the design in the preview on Google Books (page 42). I set mine around 26-27C for bread, seems to work quite well. I've not bothered to measure how accurate the setpoint is. [1] https://hydropac.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/deluxe-1.jpg https://hydropac.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/deluxe-1.j... [2] https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Noma_Guide_to_Fermentation.html?id=-iJ9DwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Noma_Guide_to_Fer... [3] https://www.nisbets.co.uk/cambro-square-polycarbonate-food-storage-container-5700ml/db010 https://www.nisbets.co.uk/cambro-square-polycarbonate-food-s...

Keep your dough warm and cosy by wrapping it up. Conversely, if you live in a hot climate, put your dough in the fridge so as not to overproof it.

OJFord 7y ago
Are fridges warmer in warmer climates? I'd have assumed the target temperature was the same.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

kop316 7y ago

Proofing? Control your temp and time if possible. Understand that a cooler temp will mean a longer proof. But also a longer proof gives you a more yeasty flavor. The first book flour water salt yeast was the first book I got, and they really help you learn how to bake yeast breads.

lostlogin 7y ago
Letting it sit in the fridge overnight works really well. It looks like nothing has happened but you get excellent over rise and a better taste.

throwaway8879 7y ago

It took me somewhere around 10 tries until I baked my first perfect bread. My overall advice would be to knead really well, unless you're doing a no-knead bread. As to your question about proofing, be gentle, let it rest in a warm spot for a fair length of time - but not too long so as to let it collapse. A lot of this will depend on the weather where you are.

hansthehorse 7y ago
I use the oven with the light on method. Works pretty well for me.
jillesvangurp 7y ago
Some of the best advice here is that you need gluten strength and structure. You develop strength over time (by waiting) or by helping the dough by doing some kneading. The first proof is about building gluten strength; the second and final proof is about puffing the final gluten structure. Structuring is basically a series of stretches and folds that shape the bread and arrange the stretches of gluten. You need gluten strength to be able to do that. Bread without structure won't puff up properly and will be dense. Bread that is over proofed, loses it's structure (it collapses) because when the yeast runs out of food and starts breaking down your gluten. Indeed the temperature, water content, yeast strength & amount all factor into what will happen. So, adjust timings in recipes accordingly and use the fridge to your advantage to slow things down. A slow cold proof builds more taste than a quick warm one.
tasuki 7y ago
I've baked no-knead bread before and I'm still confused - what exactly is the difference between bread that requires kneading and bread that doesn't require it?
- MegaDeKay 7y ago
  The hallmarks of a no knead bread are primarily small amounts of yeast, long proofs, and high hydration. It is possible to convert one recipe to another, but you won't necessarily end up with the same result. For example, no knead develops its own gluten network as it rises, but the dough won't have the same strength as kneading five or ten minutes by hand will. So don't expect a nice tall sandwich bread out of a no knead recipe.
  - tasuki 7y ago
    Thank you!

xattt 7y ago

I’ve used the Cooks Illustrated recommendation of 3 cups of boiled water in a bread pan in an oven on a lower rack to make a makeshift proof box.

ampulex 7y ago
I use a variant of this: a 2-quart bowl with hot tap water sits in the microwave, which is small and relatively well insulated. I also use this when doing overnight pre-ferments during the winter.

awinder 7y ago

Many ovens have proof settings but they are basically just turning the light on and maybe running the circulator fan. That’s basically all I’ve needed for the minority of recipes I use that kinda require that. Most recipes don’t need anything other than time and a moderately temperatured kitchen, like the difference between 72°F and 80°F for most recipes just means a little extra time at the lower temperature. Basically what I’m saying is don’t buy a fancy proofing set up, maybe use the oven with the light bulb on, but probably just make sure you leave good time / wake up earlier ;-).

ip26 7y ago
My oven heats up to about 170F on proof mode, and my kitchen is frequently 60°F in winter, so a proofer wound up being a good buy for me. But to be sure it was not needed for just getting started.

hnick 7y ago

It's not what most people think of as bread but I tried Nancy's Silverton's pizza dough and enjoyed it a lot (link below). We did a test and letting it sit in the fridge covered for 3-4 days definitely improved it over the suggested same-day use in the recipe. A longer, slower rise seems to be the trend if you can find the time, and the fridge ensures a consistent temperature. It also made it easier to work with, the recipe was quite wet (I've heard wetter is better for pizza dough but it was super sticky). https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/10/nancy-silvertons-pizza-dough-recipe.html https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2011/10/nancy-silvertons...

joshvm 7y ago

Being consistent helps, that way you know whether its a technique problem or under/over-proofing. I live in a poorly insulated house and baking bread over winter is a pain. I ended up making my own proofing box - way cheaper than buying an off-the-shelf chamber (some of which are $100+). Get an expanded polystyrene crate [1], the sort of things market traders use, a seedling mat and a relay thermostat. Wire together and you have a reasonably accurate climate controlled box. The box will be the most expensive thing, but I bought a very large one (too large, to be honest) and it was about £35. For a single loaf, you only need an interior volume enough to fit something a standard plastic food container [3]. A 4L container will barely do a 1kg batch, so size up. This is essentially the design that Noma use in their fermentation book [2]. Hint: you can see the design in the preview on Google Books (page 42). I set mine around 26-27C for bread, seems to work quite well. I've not bothered to measure how accurate the setpoint is. [1] https://hydropac.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/deluxe-1.jpg https://hydropac.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/deluxe-1.j... [2] https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Noma_Guide_to_Fermentation.html?id=-iJ9DwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Noma_Guide_to_Fer... [3] https://www.nisbets.co.uk/cambro-square-polycarbonate-food-storage-container-5700ml/db010 https://www.nisbets.co.uk/cambro-square-polycarbonate-food-s...