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The scheme behind the lack of downwards compatibility was always a pain with OSX. It's great for the app developers because they can offer you a paid upgrade to

The scheme behind the lack of downwards compatibility was always a pain with OSX. It's great for the app developers because they can offer you a paid upgrade to a new compatible version. But UX wise it's so bad it makes you consider moving to another OS. I once had ProTools on a MacPro and found it out the hard way. I thought I could just upgrade to the next OSX version like with almost any other OS. But after the upgrade many apps including ProTools didn't work anymore and could only get up an running again after paying thousands of euro's to upgrade not only ProTools, also all it's plugins and a lot of other unrelated apps as well. That was my last MacPro, and I never bought and never will buy any OSX app again.

thomascgalvin 7y ago
Killing 32 bit support is going to cost me about $600 per year, because I still have a pre-CC copy of Photoshop, In Design, and so on. I am absolutely furious at Apple for this.
- llamataboot 7y ago
  so, uh, just don't upgrade?
  - ninkendo 7y ago
    Right? If you want to use legacy software, use legacy software. You can even dual boot!
    - Someone 7y ago
      You can even run the older version in a VM, with restrictions. https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf: ”you are granted a limited, non- transferable, non-exclusive license: […] iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using macOS Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use.”
- camillomiller 7y ago
  What is the value that photoshop is adding to your business? Is it conducive to you earning enough to maintain a subscription? If not, why do you use photoshop? If yes, why shouldn’t adobe maximize their profits with a subscription based business model? It’s the market baby. Not defending adobe here, just giving a different perspective. Moreover, why should Apple stick with legacy tech to appease users like you?
  - anoncake 7y ago
    > If yes, why shouldn’t adobe maximize their profits with a subscription based business model? It’s the market baby. It's inefficient. You should get a good if its marginal cost is below its value to you. If Photoshop is worth 550 to you, the marginal cost of a copy is neglible and Adobe charges 600 €, you don't buy it and the market just threw away 550 €. That is partially justified in that the business somehow has to finance the actual development and other fixed costs, and we don't have a much better mechanism for that yet. But preventing someone from using software because they can't afford someone's profits is just pure waste.
  - dannyw 7y ago
    What about all the artists who aren’t a business? What about all the hobbyists? And finally... what about all the people that aren’t rich enough to spend $$$ a YEAR on photoshop? Do they not deserve to keep using software they have already paid for, at great expense to them? Are they not worth “appeasing” because they’re not ~fortunate~ lucky enough in life, as you were? Adobe has taken away this option. All power to them, but if you paid for a license, you have a right to keep using that software. Apple is the one here breaking software people have paid for.
    - mthoms 7y ago
      >Apple is the one here breaking software people have paid for. No, Apple is releasing brand-new software (MacOS Catalina) for free. If you can't, or don't want to run it, then don't. It honestly sounds like you think you are entitled to it for some reason.
- clairity 7y ago
  yes, it's been clear that that's where adobe was heading (adobe is where most of your ire should be directed, imho). pixelmator and affinity designer jumped into the market at the right time (a few years ago) to capture adobe refugees like me for my (mostly modest) visual design needs. in any case, you can stay on mojave to run creative suite for now, and perhaps via a VM in the future. catalina doesn't seem to have any killer features (other than maybe sidecar) that make it a must-have upgrade (and apparently enough bugs to make it a should-wait upgrade).
  - dillonmckay 7y ago
    Can recommend Pixelmator Pro. I could not justify a CC subscription for how infrequent I need to edit images (every other month).
    - dannyw 7y ago
      Bigger fan of Affinity Photo; a lot more powerful to me.
- dave5104 7y ago
  Try out Affinity Photo. If $600 a year is too high an expense for what you produce with Photoshop, then it's likely Affinity Photo will more than exceed what you need. It's a flat $50.
- techslave 7y ago
  or you could just stay on 10.14
- pembrook 7y ago
  This comment is a perfect illustration of the bizarre irrationality people have when discussing Apple. You’re stuck on a 6+ year old piece of software because Adobe moved to a higher priced cloud-based model...maybe you should be mad at Adobe...6 years ago...not Apple?
  - KenanSulayman 7y ago
    Why though? He literally chose to stick with the old software, protesting with his money. Seriously though, what's the problem with expecting 32bit software to keep working?
    - pembrook 7y ago
      The same problem with expecting 8-bit software to keep working. All organizations have limited resources. Each hour spent supporting 32 bit is an hour that could’ve been spent on more important things.
      - ohiovr 7y ago
        8 bit software still works.
        braindeath 7y ago
        8 bit software still works on OS X Catalina? Last I checked just as this guy is nursing his old ass pre CC adobe software along nothing is stopping them from continuing with an older OS X.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So which platform supports 8 bit software?
        ohiovr 7y ago
        Emulators support nearly everything. I can even run a TI994a program on a PC, Mac, or Linux. If you can't run emulators on Mac that is sad news to me. Maybe bad example, it was technically 16 bit, but it was well over 30 years old. Here is a pet emulator: https://www.masswerk.at/pet/ https://www.masswerk.at/pet/ Just the other day my brother told me he met a really talented graphics designer that still primarily uses some 25 year old sign design software. Never heard of it before, and don't remember the name. We balk at having to pay monthly for software we bought over 10 years ago and even today we'd not miss any new features offered. Great artists (I'm not one of them) can produce great visuals. Limitation can be better for creativity than no restrictions for some anyway.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Terretta 7y ago
  Why would you switch the OS you're running? Snow Leopard for life! The OS and the hardware it ran on, still run that Adobe release now just as well as they did then. I'm not sure the treadmill has resulted in things feeling importantly different for standard tools over the last 10 - 15 years.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    My next Hackintosh will be Mavericks. I'm going to use ESXi so hardware compatibility is less of an issue. I'd love to do Snow Leopard instead but tracking down old software that's compatible has proven difficult. I'm convinced it's out there—iffy backwards compatibility means there shouldn't necessarily be fewer compatible apps, just different ones—it's just tracking them down in 2019 that's a problem. Mavericks is my compromise.
  - shakna 7y ago
    > Why would you switch the OS you're running? Snow Leopard for life! Because Snow Leopard is full of unpatched security holes. [0] Including RCEs. [0] https://wyzguyscybersecurity.com/apple-patched-safari-and-osx-but-not-snow-leopard/ https://wyzguyscybersecurity.com/apple-patched-safari-and-os...
    - Terretta 7y ago
      Snow Leopard was tongue in cheek as it comes up among OSX fans as the best OS made. To your point, there are plenty newer MacOS versions that might still suit ones taste, still run 32 bit apps, and still get patched. There are plenty alternatives to surfing Safari. Heck, you can even get modern Firefox compiled for Power Macintosh G3, G4, or G5 (not for Lion 10.7 or newer, which dropped Power Mac support): https://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/ https://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/ iCab (at icab.de) is another labor of love, though release notes look like 2018. Sites like Low End Mac help find things that can live on (example 2015 article, though incomplete and dated): https://lowendmac.com/2015/what-is-the-best-browser-for-os-x-10-6-snow-leopard/ https://lowendmac.com/2015/what-is-the-best-browser-for-os-x...
- sanguy 7y ago
  If you are happy to run old Adobe pre-CC applications why would you not consider to stay on 10.14 as well? It's the same logic.
  - kibibu 7y ago
    Because Apple will stop supplying security updates?
    - derrasterpunkt 7y ago
      Is Adobe updating the pre-cc‘s? I mean security wise. Acrobat‘s vulnerability’s come to mind. Edit: I’m pretty sure my 10.13(!) received a security update last month. There will be security updates for 10.14 at least till next years macOS flavor.
    - mthoms 7y ago
      Mojave support ends in September 2021. You can still run your 32 bit Adobe apps with free security updates until then. That will have given you at least 10 years of use from your Adobe Suite purchase. (After that time the apps will still run like they always did, but you may choose to keep that machine offline for security reasons). I tend to think that's a pretty reasonable value for your money.
    - sbuk 7y ago
      Adobe have already done that for Photoshop CS6...
- alwillis 7y ago
  I recently got Affinity Designer and Publisher, each for $39 during a promotion this summer; the regular price is $49. If you look at the specs for Designer, it makes Adobe look kind of bad in comparison: https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/full-feature-list/ https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/full-feature-list/ Also, the non-Adobe Mac graphics software market is pretty robust, with Acorn, Pixelmator, Polarr Photo Editor, CorelDraw, etc. I've been an Acorn user for years; has all of the important features of Photoshop in a much more accessible interface for a fraction of the price. Just checked—it's on sale for $14.99: https://flyingmeat.com/acorn/ https://flyingmeat.com/acorn/

thomascgalvin 7y ago

Killing 32 bit support is going to cost me about $600 per year, because I still have a pre-CC copy of Photoshop, In Design, and so on. I am absolutely furious at Apple for this.

llamataboot 7y ago
so, uh, just don't upgrade?
- ninkendo 7y ago
  Right? If you want to use legacy software, use legacy software. You can even dual boot!
  - Someone 7y ago
    You can even run the older version in a VM, with restrictions. https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf https://www.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macOS1012.pdf: ”you are granted a limited, non- transferable, non-exclusive license: […] iii) to install, use and run up to two (2) additional copies or instances of the Apple Software within virtual operating system environments on each Mac Computer you own or control that is already running the Apple Software, for purposes of: (a) software development; (b) testing during software development; (c) using macOS Server; or (d) personal, non-commercial use.”
camillomiller 7y ago
What is the value that photoshop is adding to your business? Is it conducive to you earning enough to maintain a subscription? If not, why do you use photoshop? If yes, why shouldn’t adobe maximize their profits with a subscription based business model? It’s the market baby. Not defending adobe here, just giving a different perspective. Moreover, why should Apple stick with legacy tech to appease users like you?
- anoncake 7y ago
  > If yes, why shouldn’t adobe maximize their profits with a subscription based business model? It’s the market baby. It's inefficient. You should get a good if its marginal cost is below its value to you. If Photoshop is worth 550 to you, the marginal cost of a copy is neglible and Adobe charges 600 €, you don't buy it and the market just threw away 550 €. That is partially justified in that the business somehow has to finance the actual development and other fixed costs, and we don't have a much better mechanism for that yet. But preventing someone from using software because they can't afford someone's profits is just pure waste.
- dannyw 7y ago
  What about all the artists who aren’t a business? What about all the hobbyists? And finally... what about all the people that aren’t rich enough to spend $$$ a YEAR on photoshop? Do they not deserve to keep using software they have already paid for, at great expense to them? Are they not worth “appeasing” because they’re not ~fortunate~ lucky enough in life, as you were? Adobe has taken away this option. All power to them, but if you paid for a license, you have a right to keep using that software. Apple is the one here breaking software people have paid for.
  - mthoms 7y ago
    >Apple is the one here breaking software people have paid for. No, Apple is releasing brand-new software (MacOS Catalina) for free. If you can't, or don't want to run it, then don't. It honestly sounds like you think you are entitled to it for some reason.
clairity 7y ago
yes, it's been clear that that's where adobe was heading (adobe is where most of your ire should be directed, imho). pixelmator and affinity designer jumped into the market at the right time (a few years ago) to capture adobe refugees like me for my (mostly modest) visual design needs. in any case, you can stay on mojave to run creative suite for now, and perhaps via a VM in the future. catalina doesn't seem to have any killer features (other than maybe sidecar) that make it a must-have upgrade (and apparently enough bugs to make it a should-wait upgrade).
- dillonmckay 7y ago
  Can recommend Pixelmator Pro. I could not justify a CC subscription for how infrequent I need to edit images (every other month).
  - dannyw 7y ago
    Bigger fan of Affinity Photo; a lot more powerful to me.
dave5104 7y ago
Try out Affinity Photo. If $600 a year is too high an expense for what you produce with Photoshop, then it's likely Affinity Photo will more than exceed what you need. It's a flat $50.
techslave 7y ago
or you could just stay on 10.14
pembrook 7y ago
This comment is a perfect illustration of the bizarre irrationality people have when discussing Apple. You’re stuck on a 6+ year old piece of software because Adobe moved to a higher priced cloud-based model...maybe you should be mad at Adobe...6 years ago...not Apple?
- KenanSulayman 7y ago
  Why though? He literally chose to stick with the old software, protesting with his money. Seriously though, what's the problem with expecting 32bit software to keep working?
  - pembrook 7y ago
    The same problem with expecting 8-bit software to keep working. All organizations have limited resources. Each hour spent supporting 32 bit is an hour that could’ve been spent on more important things.
    - ohiovr 7y ago
      8 bit software still works.
      - braindeath 7y ago
        8 bit software still works on OS X Catalina? Last I checked just as this guy is nursing his old ass pre CC adobe software along nothing is stopping them from continuing with an older OS X.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        So which platform supports 8 bit software?
        ohiovr 7y ago
        Emulators support nearly everything. I can even run a TI994a program on a PC, Mac, or Linux. If you can't run emulators on Mac that is sad news to me. Maybe bad example, it was technically 16 bit, but it was well over 30 years old. Here is a pet emulator: https://www.masswerk.at/pet/ https://www.masswerk.at/pet/ Just the other day my brother told me he met a really talented graphics designer that still primarily uses some 25 year old sign design software. Never heard of it before, and don't remember the name. We balk at having to pay monthly for software we bought over 10 years ago and even today we'd not miss any new features offered. Great artists (I'm not one of them) can produce great visuals. Limitation can be better for creativity than no restrictions for some anyway.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Terretta 7y ago
Why would you switch the OS you're running? Snow Leopard for life! The OS and the hardware it ran on, still run that Adobe release now just as well as they did then. I'm not sure the treadmill has resulted in things feeling importantly different for standard tools over the last 10 - 15 years.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  My next Hackintosh will be Mavericks. I'm going to use ESXi so hardware compatibility is less of an issue. I'd love to do Snow Leopard instead but tracking down old software that's compatible has proven difficult. I'm convinced it's out there—iffy backwards compatibility means there shouldn't necessarily be fewer compatible apps, just different ones—it's just tracking them down in 2019 that's a problem. Mavericks is my compromise.
- shakna 7y ago
  > Why would you switch the OS you're running? Snow Leopard for life! Because Snow Leopard is full of unpatched security holes. [0] Including RCEs. [0] https://wyzguyscybersecurity.com/apple-patched-safari-and-osx-but-not-snow-leopard/ https://wyzguyscybersecurity.com/apple-patched-safari-and-os...
  - Terretta 7y ago
    Snow Leopard was tongue in cheek as it comes up among OSX fans as the best OS made. To your point, there are plenty newer MacOS versions that might still suit ones taste, still run 32 bit apps, and still get patched. There are plenty alternatives to surfing Safari. Heck, you can even get modern Firefox compiled for Power Macintosh G3, G4, or G5 (not for Lion 10.7 or newer, which dropped Power Mac support): https://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/ https://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/ iCab (at icab.de) is another labor of love, though release notes look like 2018. Sites like Low End Mac help find things that can live on (example 2015 article, though incomplete and dated): https://lowendmac.com/2015/what-is-the-best-browser-for-os-x-10-6-snow-leopard/ https://lowendmac.com/2015/what-is-the-best-browser-for-os-x...
sanguy 7y ago
If you are happy to run old Adobe pre-CC applications why would you not consider to stay on 10.14 as well? It's the same logic.
- kibibu 7y ago
  Because Apple will stop supplying security updates?
  - derrasterpunkt 7y ago
    Is Adobe updating the pre-cc‘s? I mean security wise. Acrobat‘s vulnerability’s come to mind. Edit: I’m pretty sure my 10.13(!) received a security update last month. There will be security updates for 10.14 at least till next years macOS flavor.
  - mthoms 7y ago
    Mojave support ends in September 2021. You can still run your 32 bit Adobe apps with free security updates until then. That will have given you at least 10 years of use from your Adobe Suite purchase. (After that time the apps will still run like they always did, but you may choose to keep that machine offline for security reasons). I tend to think that's a pretty reasonable value for your money.
  - sbuk 7y ago
    Adobe have already done that for Photoshop CS6...
alwillis 7y ago
I recently got Affinity Designer and Publisher, each for $39 during a promotion this summer; the regular price is $49. If you look at the specs for Designer, it makes Adobe look kind of bad in comparison: https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/full-feature-list/ https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/designer/full-feature-list/ Also, the non-Adobe Mac graphics software market is pretty robust, with Acorn, Pixelmator, Polarr Photo Editor, CorelDraw, etc. I've been an Acorn user for years; has all of the important features of Photoshop in a much more accessible interface for a fraction of the price. Just checked—it's on sale for $14.99: https://flyingmeat.com/acorn/ https://flyingmeat.com/acorn/