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A Relationship with Jeffrey Epstein That Bill Gates Now ‘Regrets’

77 points by claudeganon 7y ago

catalogia 7y ago
I thought the relationship between Epstein and Gates was meant to be mostly bullshit, with Epstein harassing Bill Gates on a handful of occasions then bragging to other people that he was friends with Bill. That's the story I heard a few weeks ago anyway.
- temac 7y ago
  That was the previous position of the Bill Gates camp. Given he changed the narrative, I would not be surprised about further developments.
- alexis_fr 7y ago
  I suspect this was the case with most of Epstein’s relationships. Like a sticky salesman. Every one of those situations must have been severely, severely embarrassing for people who were non-interested in whatever Epstein was selling.
- hlarsen 7y ago
  yeah... the old stories were a bit different a month or two ago: "... any account of a business partnership or personal relationship between the two is simply not true." https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/jeffrey-epstein-bezos-musk-billionaires-dinner https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/jeffrey-ep... The Microsoft founder said he was “never at any parties or anything like that,” and that all the meetings they held together “were meetings with men.” “I met him,” Gates told the Journal. “I didn’t have any business relationship or friendship with him. I didn’t go to New Mexico or Florida or Palm Beach or any of that. There were people around him who were saying, hey, if you want to raise money for global health and get more philanthropy, he knows a lot of rich people.” https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/10/20858936/bill-gates-jeffrey-epstein-meetings-interview https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/10/20858936/bill-gates-jeffr...
- efuquen 7y ago
  If you read the article that does not at all seem to be the case.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    Yes, the new narrative seems much worse. I wonder if it's the truth this time.
- ZeroGravitas 7y ago
  I heard the story was that Epstein was talking to Bill and Melinda about their daughter's appearnace in a 'scary' way that made them both feel uncomfortable. Or that might have been one of Epstein's other associates.
- simplicio 7y ago
  According to the article, Gates visited Epstein in Epstein's apartment several times. So that doesn't really square with Gate's being an unwilling participant. It's a weird story. It's hard to imagine Gates, whose foundation is the largest charitable organization in the world, really needed Epsteins advice on setting up charitable funds, which seems to be the official line. And Gates certainly wouldn't need help networking or coming up with $$.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    Gates probably needed something else from Epstein, likely having to do with his ties to intelligence agencies.
- nshepperd 7y ago
  That story does not strike me as highly inconsistent with TFA. Just took a few times to go from polite tolerance of an annoying person to telling him to fuck off.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
draw_down 7y ago
https://twitter.com/nickwiger/status/1183086808046829568 https://twitter.com/nickwiger/status/1183086808046829568
drcode 7y ago
Just curious, why are most people in 2019 so convinced that Bill Gates is "the worlds greatest guy"? Don't we have plenty of evidence of a long history of shady business practices (that really only ended around 1998 when Microsoft lost their stranglehold on the computer industry due to the internet) and isn't it likely that Bill Gates most likely has the world's greatest PR team? Also, do we have any evidence that Bill Gates is a generous guy when he isn't attaching his name to it for self promotion? I'm sincerely asking these questions: I agree he seems like an OK guy these days... but the rational part of me kinda wonders what evidence we have that he isn't just the product of a giant PR campaign.
- omarchowdhury 7y ago
  Possibly due to the philanthropic efforts of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
  - drcode 7y ago
    You're missing my point. Other rich people donate anonymously or through a foundation that doesn't have their name on it.
    - anchpop 7y ago
      > Other rich people donate anonymously How do you know?
      - dwoozle 7y ago
        Charities report anonymous donations.
      - catalogia 7y ago
        There are a lot of museums, historic sites, schools, etc with names of donors on plaques hanging on some wall, and many of them attribute very large donations to "anonymous donor."
smacktoward 7y ago
I imagine that anyone who had a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein now regrets it. Funny how none of them discovered those regrets after Epstein hit the front pages.
- drcode 7y ago
  To be fair, I'm sure some people regretted it earlier in private, before there was an expectation to put their opinions into the public record.
  - smacktoward 7y ago
    The question isn't putting their opinions into the public record, it's the wisdom of maintaining the relationship in the first place. Epstein was convicted of sex trafficking in 2008, eleven years before his story became national news. A cursory Google search of his name anytime after his conviction would have turned that up. And yet all these luminaries were happy to continue keeping his company and taking his money through those eleven years -- until he became a public relations liability. Even if they privately had regrets about maintaining a relationship with Epstein, clearly those regrets weren't strong enough for any of them to actually, you know, do anything.
    - miracle2k 7y ago
      He was convicted in 2008 of soliciting prostitution, with there being public accusations of underage prostitution, something that Epstein claimed however to be not aware of. See [1]. Given that people convicted of crimes such as prostitution deserve to be re-integrated into society rather than being shunned, it's not clear you can accuse Bill Gates of much except maybe taking on a PR risk to himself to be kind to another human being. I am assuming he did not have a relationship with Epstein for the money. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/02/usa.internationalcrime1 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/02/usa.internatio...
      - AndrewBissell 7y ago
breck 7y ago
This is an interesting read, but I don't think it's fair to judge someone by who they hung out with a few times. I wish we didn't live in a world where someone has to say they "Regret" hanging out with someone. If you could not hang out with people that have made mistakes, you could not hang out with anyone. If you could not hang out with people who have criminal records, among the people you could not hang out with would be MLK. I grew up in a poorer city where a few of the people I hung out with are in jail for long sentences, or drug dealers, or dead from drugs. Do I regret hanging out with them? No. If you run away from anything you are told is bad or evil you are going to live in a bubble. That shows cowardice and not courage. Better to use your brain and think for yourself (and not engage in the bad behavior or condone it, but not flip the bozo bit on anyone who has been accused of anything). Does that mean I'm a bad person? Do Emily Flitter and James B. Stewart only hang out with perfect angels?
- blazespin 7y ago
  Presumably there is a lot more the NYT didn't report because it was unsubstantiated. You don't write these kind of pieces against someone super powerful for no reason.
  - craigc 7y ago
    I agree there is a lot they left out, but as I posted elsewhere in this thread, I think the Times actually went extremely lightly on Bill Gates. It read to me like his PR team authored it. Seems almost like they are trying to get ahead of some new information that may soon come to light.
- Barrin92 7y ago
  What exactly went on in your head that made you in all seriousness compare Martin Luther King to someone who was at the time in question already convicted of child sex trafficking. That is the most obscene thing I've read in a while. I don't even care about people who do drugs, but someone who exploits children, seriously? That isn't just some random mistake, let alone ethical protest against an unjust law, it's one of the vilest crimes anyone can engage in.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cperciva 7y ago
Did Bill Gates ignore some warning signs? Sure. On the other hand, Jeffrey Epstein from all appearances was a billionaire who was close to many other wealthy and influential individuals, and claimed that he wanted to help the Gates Foundation. When you're spending your days talking to people and saying "for every X dollars you give us, we can save another life" you probably end up looking at things differently. If I were in Bill Gates' shoes and thought there was a chance that Jeffrey Epstein would provide (personally and via his connections) enough money to save hundreds of thousands of lives... honestly? I would absolutely ignore the "convicted sex offender" thing too. Because, you know, hundreds of thousands of lives.
- simplicio 7y ago
  Does Gates really need help networking with wealthy people? If Gates wants to talk some oil tycoon or whatever into donating cash, wouldn't he be better off just asking himself instead of sending a convicted sex-offender in his place.
  - cperciva 7y ago
    Does Gates really need help networking with wealthy people? You might be surprised. I'm sure that Gates can pick up a phone, say "I want to talk to Mr. X" and one of his flunkies will make it happen; but introductions are incredibly important -- especially if you're asking for something.
  - seanmcdirmid 7y ago
    > Does Gates really need help networking with wealthy people? He is fairly introverted as far as wealthy people go, I wouldn't be surprised if his circle of true connections is much smaller than you would think.
- msghacq 7y ago
  Being convicted of child rape is a little more than "some warning signs". There's no reason any decent or intelligent person would put themselves in that situation. Gates seems intelligent so that only leaves that he either A: didn't care or B: partook in Epstein's services.
blazespin 7y ago
NYT hopefully has a lot more they aren't reporting. I'd hate to think they'd write an article like this just because they met a few times. But who knows with NYT these days. Not that I want Bill to be the bad guy, but if he is, it should come up. Enough with the preying on the vulnerable. This is 2019 Is it me or is it pretty obvious that Epstein's ploy was to implicitly blackmail rich people after seducing them with young women? reply
- onetimemanytime 7y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if Bill was blackmailed at some point, being human and all. Even if the woman was 18 and a day, it would still hurt Bill's reputation, on many counts (why would an old man want to sleep with such a young woman, for one?). And we know that there's no real difference between an 17.5 year old and an 18 year old. But one might send you to jail... From our chairs it's easy to say how dare he but ...
deleted 7y ago
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craigc 7y ago
This piece reads like it was authored by Bill Gates’ PR team. The Times has to do better than this. They do not question a single assertion and take it all as fact. > Ms. Arnold said Mr. Gates and the foundation had been unaware that Mr. Epstein had been seeking any fee. > Some of the Gates Foundation employees said they had been unaware of Mr. Epstein’s criminal record and had been shocked to learn that the foundation was working with a sex offender. > In March 2013, Mr. Gates flew on Mr. Epstein’s Gulfstream plane from Teterboro Airport in New Jersey to Palm Beach, Fla., according to a flight manifest. Ms. Arnold said Mr. Gates — who has his own $40 million jet — hadn’t been aware it was Mr. Epstein’s plane. > Mr. Epstein complained to an acquaintance at the end of 2014 that Mr. Gates had stopped talking to him, according to a person familiar with the discussion. Obviously, everyone is in damage control mode and looking to distance themselves from Epstein, but there is a very good chance that Bill Gates and others knew exactly what he was involved in and went along with it anyway. How do you fly on someone’s private plane without realizing it is their plane?
- ryanlol 7y ago
  >How do you fly on someone’s private plane without realizing it is their plane? Easily, you just assume it’s a charter. When you fly on private jets every day you stop thinking about these things really fast.
  - craigc 7y ago
    Haha. I clearly do not have any experience in that area, but I guess that does make some sense.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  The same way you might get in a car with someone and not realizing that it's not their car. A rich person isn't going to boast to an even richer person that it's their plane.
- nshepperd 7y ago
  > How do you fly on someone’s private plane without realizing it is their plane? I was wondering this too, so I googled it: https://flyxo.com/operator-partners/ https://flyxo.com/operator-partners/ Apparently, if you own a private jet, you can rent it out on the equivalent of Uber. Seems like the sort of thing rich people would use a lot when their own plane is somewhere else.
kgarten 7y ago
Why is this post flagged?

77 points by claudeganon 7y ago

I thought the relationship between Epstein and Gates was meant to be mostly bullshit, with Epstein harassing Bill Gates on a handful of occasions then bragging to other people that he was friends with Bill. That's the story I heard a few weeks ago anyway.

temac 7y ago
That was the previous position of the Bill Gates camp. Given he changed the narrative, I would not be surprised about further developments.
alexis_fr 7y ago
I suspect this was the case with most of Epstein’s relationships. Like a sticky salesman. Every one of those situations must have been severely, severely embarrassing for people who were non-interested in whatever Epstein was selling.
hlarsen 7y ago
yeah... the old stories were a bit different a month or two ago: "... any account of a business partnership or personal relationship between the two is simply not true." https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/jeffrey-epstein-bezos-musk-billionaires-dinner https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/jeffrey-ep... The Microsoft founder said he was “never at any parties or anything like that,” and that all the meetings they held together “were meetings with men.” “I met him,” Gates told the Journal. “I didn’t have any business relationship or friendship with him. I didn’t go to New Mexico or Florida or Palm Beach or any of that. There were people around him who were saying, hey, if you want to raise money for global health and get more philanthropy, he knows a lot of rich people.” https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/10/20858936/bill-gates-jeffrey-epstein-meetings-interview https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/10/20858936/bill-gates-jeffr...
efuquen 7y ago
If you read the article that does not at all seem to be the case.
- catalogia 7y ago
  Yes, the new narrative seems much worse. I wonder if it's the truth this time.
ZeroGravitas 7y ago
I heard the story was that Epstein was talking to Bill and Melinda about their daughter's appearnace in a 'scary' way that made them both feel uncomfortable. Or that might have been one of Epstein's other associates.
simplicio 7y ago
According to the article, Gates visited Epstein in Epstein's apartment several times. So that doesn't really square with Gate's being an unwilling participant. It's a weird story. It's hard to imagine Gates, whose foundation is the largest charitable organization in the world, really needed Epsteins advice on setting up charitable funds, which seems to be the official line. And Gates certainly wouldn't need help networking or coming up with $$.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  Gates probably needed something else from Epstein, likely having to do with his ties to intelligence agencies.
nshepperd 7y ago
That story does not strike me as highly inconsistent with TFA. Just took a few times to go from polite tolerance of an annoying person to telling him to fuck off.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

draw_down 7y ago

https://twitter.com/nickwiger/status/1183086808046829568 https://twitter.com/nickwiger/status/1183086808046829568

drcode 7y ago

Just curious, why are most people in 2019 so convinced that Bill Gates is "the worlds greatest guy"? Don't we have plenty of evidence of a long history of shady business practices (that really only ended around 1998 when Microsoft lost their stranglehold on the computer industry due to the internet) and isn't it likely that Bill Gates most likely has the world's greatest PR team? Also, do we have any evidence that Bill Gates is a generous guy when he isn't attaching his name to it for self promotion? I'm sincerely asking these questions: I agree he seems like an OK guy these days... but the rational part of me kinda wonders what evidence we have that he isn't just the product of a giant PR campaign.

omarchowdhury 7y ago
Possibly due to the philanthropic efforts of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation.
- drcode 7y ago
  You're missing my point. Other rich people donate anonymously or through a foundation that doesn't have their name on it.
  - anchpop 7y ago
    > Other rich people donate anonymously How do you know?
    - dwoozle 7y ago
      Charities report anonymous donations.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      There are a lot of museums, historic sites, schools, etc with names of donors on plaques hanging on some wall, and many of them attribute very large donations to "anonymous donor."

smacktoward 7y ago

I imagine that anyone who had a relationship with Jeffrey Epstein now regrets it. Funny how none of them discovered those regrets after Epstein hit the front pages.

drcode 7y ago
To be fair, I'm sure some people regretted it earlier in private, before there was an expectation to put their opinions into the public record.
- smacktoward 7y ago
  The question isn't putting their opinions into the public record, it's the wisdom of maintaining the relationship in the first place. Epstein was convicted of sex trafficking in 2008, eleven years before his story became national news. A cursory Google search of his name anytime after his conviction would have turned that up. And yet all these luminaries were happy to continue keeping his company and taking his money through those eleven years -- until he became a public relations liability. Even if they privately had regrets about maintaining a relationship with Epstein, clearly those regrets weren't strong enough for any of them to actually, you know, do anything.
  - miracle2k 7y ago
    He was convicted in 2008 of soliciting prostitution, with there being public accusations of underage prostitution, something that Epstein claimed however to be not aware of. See [1]. Given that people convicted of crimes such as prostitution deserve to be re-integrated into society rather than being shunned, it's not clear you can accuse Bill Gates of much except maybe taking on a PR risk to himself to be kind to another human being. I am assuming he did not have a relationship with Epstein for the money. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/02/usa.internationalcrime1 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/02/usa.internatio...
    - AndrewBissell 7y ago

breck 7y ago

This is an interesting read, but I don't think it's fair to judge someone by who they hung out with a few times. I wish we didn't live in a world where someone has to say they "Regret" hanging out with someone. If you could not hang out with people that have made mistakes, you could not hang out with anyone. If you could not hang out with people who have criminal records, among the people you could not hang out with would be MLK. I grew up in a poorer city where a few of the people I hung out with are in jail for long sentences, or drug dealers, or dead from drugs. Do I regret hanging out with them? No. If you run away from anything you are told is bad or evil you are going to live in a bubble. That shows cowardice and not courage. Better to use your brain and think for yourself (and not engage in the bad behavior or condone it, but not flip the bozo bit on anyone who has been accused of anything). Does that mean I'm a bad person? Do Emily Flitter and James B. Stewart only hang out with perfect angels?

blazespin 7y ago
Presumably there is a lot more the NYT didn't report because it was unsubstantiated. You don't write these kind of pieces against someone super powerful for no reason.
- craigc 7y ago
  I agree there is a lot they left out, but as I posted elsewhere in this thread, I think the Times actually went extremely lightly on Bill Gates. It read to me like his PR team authored it. Seems almost like they are trying to get ahead of some new information that may soon come to light.
Barrin92 7y ago
What exactly went on in your head that made you in all seriousness compare Martin Luther King to someone who was at the time in question already convicted of child sex trafficking. That is the most obscene thing I've read in a while. I don't even care about people who do drugs, but someone who exploits children, seriously? That isn't just some random mistake, let alone ethical protest against an unjust law, it's one of the vilest crimes anyone can engage in.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

cperciva 7y ago

Did Bill Gates ignore some warning signs? Sure. On the other hand, Jeffrey Epstein from all appearances was a billionaire who was close to many other wealthy and influential individuals, and claimed that he wanted to help the Gates Foundation. When you're spending your days talking to people and saying "for every X dollars you give us, we can save another life" you probably end up looking at things differently. If I were in Bill Gates' shoes and thought there was a chance that Jeffrey Epstein would provide (personally and via his connections) enough money to save hundreds of thousands of lives... honestly? I would absolutely ignore the "convicted sex offender" thing too. Because, you know, hundreds of thousands of lives.

simplicio 7y ago
Does Gates really need help networking with wealthy people? If Gates wants to talk some oil tycoon or whatever into donating cash, wouldn't he be better off just asking himself instead of sending a convicted sex-offender in his place.
- cperciva 7y ago
  Does Gates really need help networking with wealthy people? You might be surprised. I'm sure that Gates can pick up a phone, say "I want to talk to Mr. X" and one of his flunkies will make it happen; but introductions are incredibly important -- especially if you're asking for something.
- seanmcdirmid 7y ago
  > Does Gates really need help networking with wealthy people? He is fairly introverted as far as wealthy people go, I wouldn't be surprised if his circle of true connections is much smaller than you would think.
msghacq 7y ago
Being convicted of child rape is a little more than "some warning signs". There's no reason any decent or intelligent person would put themselves in that situation. Gates seems intelligent so that only leaves that he either A: didn't care or B: partook in Epstein's services.

blazespin 7y ago

NYT hopefully has a lot more they aren't reporting. I'd hate to think they'd write an article like this just because they met a few times. But who knows with NYT these days. Not that I want Bill to be the bad guy, but if he is, it should come up. Enough with the preying on the vulnerable. This is 2019 Is it me or is it pretty obvious that Epstein's ploy was to implicitly blackmail rich people after seducing them with young women? reply

onetimemanytime 7y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if Bill was blackmailed at some point, being human and all. Even if the woman was 18 and a day, it would still hurt Bill's reputation, on many counts (why would an old man want to sleep with such a young woman, for one?). And we know that there's no real difference between an 17.5 year old and an 18 year old. But one might send you to jail... From our chairs it's easy to say how dare he but ...

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

craigc 7y ago

This piece reads like it was authored by Bill Gates’ PR team. The Times has to do better than this. They do not question a single assertion and take it all as fact. > Ms. Arnold said Mr. Gates and the foundation had been unaware that Mr. Epstein had been seeking any fee. > Some of the Gates Foundation employees said they had been unaware of Mr. Epstein’s criminal record and had been shocked to learn that the foundation was working with a sex offender. > In March 2013, Mr. Gates flew on Mr. Epstein’s Gulfstream plane from Teterboro Airport in New Jersey to Palm Beach, Fla., according to a flight manifest. Ms. Arnold said Mr. Gates — who has his own $40 million jet — hadn’t been aware it was Mr. Epstein’s plane. > Mr. Epstein complained to an acquaintance at the end of 2014 that Mr. Gates had stopped talking to him, according to a person familiar with the discussion. Obviously, everyone is in damage control mode and looking to distance themselves from Epstein, but there is a very good chance that Bill Gates and others knew exactly what he was involved in and went along with it anyway. How do you fly on someone’s private plane without realizing it is their plane?

ryanlol 7y ago
>How do you fly on someone’s private plane without realizing it is their plane? Easily, you just assume it’s a charter. When you fly on private jets every day you stop thinking about these things really fast.
- craigc 7y ago
  Haha. I clearly do not have any experience in that area, but I guess that does make some sense.
RandomBacon 7y ago
The same way you might get in a car with someone and not realizing that it's not their car. A rich person isn't going to boast to an even richer person that it's their plane.
nshepperd 7y ago
> How do you fly on someone’s private plane without realizing it is their plane? I was wondering this too, so I googled it: https://flyxo.com/operator-partners/ https://flyxo.com/operator-partners/ Apparently, if you own a private jet, you can rent it out on the equivalent of Uber. Seems like the sort of thing rich people would use a lot when their own plane is somewhere else.

kgarten 7y ago

Why is this post flagged?