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I wonder how much of this is companies distancing themselves from Facebook rather than being purely about the cryptocurrency project.

Matthias247 7y ago
On the other hand if it weren't facebook they likely would not even have been interested in yet-another cryptocurrency. Especially if it's even not available, but just a work-in-progress thing.
- judge2020 7y ago
  If they had created this without FB (and didn't announce it at all), FB could have snuck in later and they would have taken over payments without anyone noticing
  - gl00pp 7y ago
    But no one would have taken it seriously without FB pushing it.
- nostrademons 7y ago
  They've been interested for a while - Stripe used to accept Bitcoin, and various Stripe employees have said they're watching developments in the space. For that matter, a number of other big tech companies (notably Apple) said they're watching the space. I think the main issue is that cryptocurrency still has a few unsolved research & regulatory problems (like how to handle more than 10 TPS, or how to record taxes transparently) before it's ready for mainstream adoption. No big company wants to take the risk that an unsolved research problem may not have a solution, and so they wait and see how the space evolves rather than committing large amounts of resources to it. (Other than FB, who has resources to burn.) If it starts taking off they'll buy a bunch of startups and then start throwing engineers at it; otherwise they risk nothing.
  - lawn 7y ago
    Cryptocurrencies do have scaling issues, but it's very easy to process more than 10 TPS. Just because Bitcoin chose not to doesn't mean others cannot.
catalogia 7y ago
They knew it was relating to crypto from day one, they've not received new information in that regard so I don't think we can attribute that to their change of heart. I wager it's the bad press and negative reactions (particularly from European governments) Facebook/Libra have gotten. That's something they possibly didn't anticipate.
StevePerkins 7y ago
I doubt they were ever TRULY enthusiastic about this project, since its premise cuts into their primary bread-and-butter legacy business. I suspect their involvment was almost more of a "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" sort of thing. The idea that it's better to be involved than shut out. But if I were them, I would be low-key thrilled that this is falling apart.
- ilaksh 7y ago
  The primary threat for payment processors and fiat currency is real cryptocurrency. Libra is a fake cryptocurrency that the payment processors and governments hoped would help to hold off the cryptocurrencies for a few extra years. It would have allowed the payment processors to continue to profit from transactions and made it practical for governments to control payments and wallets. They are probably pulling out for two reasons. One, having all of the payment processors involved makes it too obvious that it's not actually a cryptocurrency. Two, it's dead in the water, and to even have a slight hope of reviving it, that association with payment processors needs to go away. If they are able to resurrect it, expect the companies to come back down the line.
  - StevePerkins 7y ago
    I'm sorry. Sometimes goldbugs, and the crypto hardcore, get pretty far out there on the edge. It can be confusing whether something is an interesting point, worthy of discussion... or just outright "alternative reality", like climate change denial, that you should walk away from. Are you actually saying that: 1. The payment processors joined this consortium to AVOID helping crytocurrencies catch on in the mainstream? 2. The payment processors are lying about pulling out. Facebook secretly pushed them out, because Facebook wants to start over with a more "pure" cryptocurrency?
    - ilaksh 7y ago
      1. Look into the technical details carefully. Its not really a cryptocurrency except on the surface. Core aspects of the design absolutely preclude any truly distributed operation. Everything goes through a small number of nodes. It should be obvious that payment processors do not want cryptocurrencies to catch on. I know many people will never understand this, but the true purpose of cryptocurrency is to act as digital cash. This makes the payment processor business model obsolete. 2. My theory is that Visa et al voluntarily left for the time being because they could see that it was not going to work, and especially was not going to work with them sponsoring it. Facebook is never going to try for a real cryptocurrency, the model will stay the same, but if the project has any chance of moving forward (at this point it is a very slim chance) then it needs to disassociate at least temporarily from the payment processors. The technical parts will not actually become decentralized. Just the bad marketing from Visa and friends will go away for awhile. It seems like there is a strong possibility that this particular project is going to be completely killed though anyway. One more thing about the "alternative reality". Yes, my worldview is obviously very different from yours. But maybe if you consider carefully you may realize that your worldview may not be 100% accurate in all ways.

Matthias247 7y ago

On the other hand if it weren't facebook they likely would not even have been interested in yet-another cryptocurrency. Especially if it's even not available, but just a work-in-progress thing.

judge2020 7y ago
If they had created this without FB (and didn't announce it at all), FB could have snuck in later and they would have taken over payments without anyone noticing
- gl00pp 7y ago
  But no one would have taken it seriously without FB pushing it.
nostrademons 7y ago
They've been interested for a while - Stripe used to accept Bitcoin, and various Stripe employees have said they're watching developments in the space. For that matter, a number of other big tech companies (notably Apple) said they're watching the space. I think the main issue is that cryptocurrency still has a few unsolved research & regulatory problems (like how to handle more than 10 TPS, or how to record taxes transparently) before it's ready for mainstream adoption. No big company wants to take the risk that an unsolved research problem may not have a solution, and so they wait and see how the space evolves rather than committing large amounts of resources to it. (Other than FB, who has resources to burn.) If it starts taking off they'll buy a bunch of startups and then start throwing engineers at it; otherwise they risk nothing.
- lawn 7y ago
  Cryptocurrencies do have scaling issues, but it's very easy to process more than 10 TPS. Just because Bitcoin chose not to doesn't mean others cannot.

catalogia 7y ago

They knew it was relating to crypto from day one, they've not received new information in that regard so I don't think we can attribute that to their change of heart. I wager it's the bad press and negative reactions (particularly from European governments) Facebook/Libra have gotten. That's something they possibly didn't anticipate.

StevePerkins 7y ago

I doubt they were ever TRULY enthusiastic about this project, since its premise cuts into their primary bread-and-butter legacy business. I suspect their involvment was almost more of a "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" sort of thing. The idea that it's better to be involved than shut out. But if I were them, I would be low-key thrilled that this is falling apart.

ilaksh 7y ago
The primary threat for payment processors and fiat currency is real cryptocurrency. Libra is a fake cryptocurrency that the payment processors and governments hoped would help to hold off the cryptocurrencies for a few extra years. It would have allowed the payment processors to continue to profit from transactions and made it practical for governments to control payments and wallets. They are probably pulling out for two reasons. One, having all of the payment processors involved makes it too obvious that it's not actually a cryptocurrency. Two, it's dead in the water, and to even have a slight hope of reviving it, that association with payment processors needs to go away. If they are able to resurrect it, expect the companies to come back down the line.
- StevePerkins 7y ago
  I'm sorry. Sometimes goldbugs, and the crypto hardcore, get pretty far out there on the edge. It can be confusing whether something is an interesting point, worthy of discussion... or just outright "alternative reality", like climate change denial, that you should walk away from. Are you actually saying that: 1. The payment processors joined this consortium to AVOID helping crytocurrencies catch on in the mainstream? 2. The payment processors are lying about pulling out. Facebook secretly pushed them out, because Facebook wants to start over with a more "pure" cryptocurrency?
  - ilaksh 7y ago
    1. Look into the technical details carefully. Its not really a cryptocurrency except on the surface. Core aspects of the design absolutely preclude any truly distributed operation. Everything goes through a small number of nodes. It should be obvious that payment processors do not want cryptocurrencies to catch on. I know many people will never understand this, but the true purpose of cryptocurrency is to act as digital cash. This makes the payment processor business model obsolete. 2. My theory is that Visa et al voluntarily left for the time being because they could see that it was not going to work, and especially was not going to work with them sponsoring it. Facebook is never going to try for a real cryptocurrency, the model will stay the same, but if the project has any chance of moving forward (at this point it is a very slim chance) then it needs to disassociate at least temporarily from the payment processors. The technical parts will not actually become decentralized. Just the bad marketing from Visa and friends will go away for awhile. It seems like there is a strong possibility that this particular project is going to be completely killed though anyway. One more thing about the "alternative reality". Yes, my worldview is obviously very different from yours. But maybe if you consider carefully you may realize that your worldview may not be 100% accurate in all ways.