7 ms·

From what I could tell, Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo a

From what I could tell, Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). Incidentally, it also happens to sound similar to "roku" (="six").

amptorn 7y ago
It's a pretty good name I think!
rcthompson 7y ago
This is exactly the type of linguistic naming shenanigans I'd expect from the Perl community.
tvaughan 7y ago
And back when we had to read books to learn a language, the definitive guide on Perl was called "the camel book." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_Perl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_Perl
- aflag 7y ago
  I'm curious, how do you learn languages now?
  - chmod775 7y ago
    I read a blog post with the basics, then Google everything else as I need it.
    - aflag 7y ago
      Interesting. A good book is very efficient at teaching you how to think in that particular language, rather than translating the ideas you have in another language into the new language. How do you learn that with your method? It sounds to me that it would require a long time programming in the new language to come to the same realisations by yourself.
      - chmod775 7y ago
        I've been developing software for more than ten years and it is rare now that I encounter anything genuinely new "idea wise" in a programming language. The main questions I have when doing something in an unfamiliar language are now: 1. What is the syntax for X 2. Can it do Y 3. Is there a library/builtin for Z For anything else, I've probably been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I remember using some books to get a structured introduction when I started out many years ago though. Nowadays I'll probably just open whatever existing code there is, go "ah, so it's like that", and hack away with the help of Google. The stuff that takes actual learning tend to be major frameworks for me, not so much whatever programming language is used.
        weirdkid 7y ago
        This is how to learn to mimic a new language and avoid actually learning it. It’s the difference between carrying around a French phrase book and being able to converse like a native.
        b2gills 7y ago
        Yeah, I don't think that anyone learning Raku that way would realize that the {} in the following is actually a lambda. for @a { .say } So this works in basically the same way: my $lambda = { .say } @a.map( $lambda ); Or that the pointy block syntax … for @a -> $item { say $item } … works on every keyword of the form `KEYWORD (CONDITION) {BLOCK}`. if $a.method() -> $result { say $result } The pointy block is of course also a lambda. my $lambda = -> $result { say $result } --- Raku is a much more consistent language than beginners expect. The above is just one example of this. Because it is so consistent; once you learn something in one place, you can use that knowledge everywhere in the language. But first you have to realize that is even a possibility. It would take a long time to come to that conclusion if you write Raku by copy-pasting code. That is because very few languages are as strangely consistent as Raku.
    - Qcombinator 7y ago
      I think explains a lot of the polarised reactions people have towards Perl. It's trivial to understand the difference between the scalar var $foo and the array var $foo[0] if someone explains it to you or you read it; but if you're trying to Google-as-you-go, you don't even know what to search for. Those in the former group are more likely to find Perl delightful, while to the latter it's just frustrating.
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        > It's trivial to understand the difference between the scalar var $foo and the array var $foo[0] if someone explains it to you or you read it; I don't Perl much, but aren't those both scalars and @foo is an array variable. $foo[0] would be a scalar that is the first element of @foo, right?
        Qcombinator 7y ago
        Yes, indeed — I should have said "scalar element of the array var..." or something.
Grinnz 7y ago
It is also a type of Japanese pottery. "Raku pottery is "imperfect but sophisticated", so that's a fit :)" https://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2018-10-25#l584 https://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2018-...
- cestith 7y ago
  That description also fits a camel.
  - joshred 7y ago
    A camel strikes me as unsophisticated yet perfect.
    - cestith 7y ago
      I understand that impression but I think it requires a different point of view. They are highly adapted in multiple quite complex ways. It's possible we're using divergent definitions of "sophisticated". I was using the one that means complex, developed, and refined for an environment rather than the definition of being tasteful, intellectually pleasing, and socially experienced.
      - Dylan16807 7y ago
        That applies to every living thing ever, though. You're not focusing on the camel at all, or elevating it, unlike joshred's formulation.
        cestith 7y ago
        Not everything that ever lived is as adapted as the camel and not in as many ways. it has huge fat stores so it can go a long time between meals. It can go a long time without even drinking. It has for thick enough it won't sunburn but thin enough it won't overheat easily. They have a third, translucent eyelid that opens to the side like something you might see on a reptile, but they still have the two main lashed eyelids like most mammals. They have a long, strong swatting tail. Their feet, unlike a horse or goat, are not hooved. They have a split foot with webbing in the middle that resists sinking in sand or soft soil. They're able to drink brackish or even salt water. They can eat stone fruits like dates with the stone. They'll eat cactus with the spines because their mouths are so tough. They eat fish, seeds, grains, and all sorts of things. They can eat foods far too salty for other animals and will even eat bones. Arabian camels will travel tens of kilometers a day in the wild to forage, in conditions many animals couldn't even survive, but can go two weeks between meals when they must. Saying they are no more complex and adapted than any other organism sells them far short. Yet they're more stubborn than a mule, somewhat slower than a horse, they smell worse than either, and they'll spit on a person like a llama. They've been known to bite. Their shape is not is amenable to riding although they are used as mounts. So there are things one might really want to change before spending a lot of time with one.
pvaldes 7y ago
> Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to use a computer language. Too many names. Raku is a good name indeed. Like a promise of prune and simplify all the former zoo of names that could finally allow the people to focuse in the program
- coldtea 7y ago
  >One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to use a computer language. Too many names. You're overthinking it. I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them...
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    > I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them Mission acomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015
    - coldtea 7y ago
      >Mission accomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015 Yeah, as if the name is what caused the non-adoption of a 20 years late replacement for a language that had already fallen out of fashion with developers (and with many growing pains in the compiler and tooling to boot). If anything, they used the "Perl 6" for most of the time, which renders the argument even more moot...
      - pvaldes 7y ago
Sharlin 7y ago
There was something strangely familiar about the word "raku" but it took me a moment to make the connection. In Finnish, "raakku" is a common name for the mollusc species Margaritifera margaritifera, better known as the… freshwater pearl mussel! [1] I'm really not sure if this is an amazing coincidence or yet another layer of linguistic brilliance. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freshwater_pearl_mussel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freshwater_pearl_mussel
- GolDDranks 7y ago
  Oh wow, I didn't know that, but I know that there is/was a band called "Raakku ja helmet". I always thought "Raakku" was a humorous nickname of the singer, because "raakkua" means "to cry like a crow", i.e. not so well. But "raakku" meaning "a mussel" brings a whole new level of meaning: "Mussel and the Pearls".
earenndil 7y ago
Meanwhile, in hebrew, it means spoiled or decayed. :)
- cben 7y ago
  That would be Rakuv רקוב, just Raku doesn't have any meaning in Hebrew. It does sound similar when pronounced though. (Hebrew word formation is from 3-consonant roots, not concatenation, so removing a letter doesn't give a related word. It's either an invalid word or a different root with 3rd voiceless consonant רקוא which is a not a root / רקוע Raku'a "flattened" but that doesn't sounds quite differently.)
wodenokoto 7y ago
Raku means happy, fun or relaxed: https://jisho.org/word/楽 https://jisho.org/word/楽 Rakudo means paradise: https://jisho.org/word/楽土 https://jisho.org/word/楽土 Rakuda is a camel: https://jisho.org/word/駱駝 https://jisho.org/word/駱駝
zumu 7y ago
So as a Japanese speaker, I don't think I ever would have made the 'raku' == 'rakuda' camel connection. Also, while 'raku' is the reading for 楽, which connotes easy, simple and other good things, it is also the reading for a bunch of other characters--namely, 落, which means or carries the connotation of falling, declining or otherwise missing the mark. When I see the 'raku' transliteration in the context of Perl, I think of 落. Not sure if that says something about my subconscious perception of Perl or not, but I can't help but think 'Raku' is a bad choice for the name of a language mired in indecision and falling from public favor. On another note, I find the inclination of tech projects towards poorly translated Japanese words amusing. It nicely compliments the phenomena you see in the use of random English words for the naming of Japanese cars, condo buildings, and other 'prestigious' products. So if you find that ridiculous, you should find these 'Japanese' technology names ridiculous as well.
- Ultimatt 7y ago
  Raku isnt falling from public favor, it hasn't made it yet. It's an entirely different language to Perl 5. Like the difference between C and C# or Java.
  - zumu 7y ago
    Yea, sorry I'm not super familiar with the project, but that is the general vibe I get about Perl. Interestingly enough 落(raku) also has the connotation of failure or missing the target, so not very auspicious in the context of a new language either!
    - gpvos 7y ago
      > that is the general vibe I get about Perl. Perl <=5 did make it, it was quite big in the 90s and early 2000s.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

amptorn 7y ago

It's a pretty good name I think!

rcthompson 7y ago

This is exactly the type of linguistic naming shenanigans I'd expect from the Perl community.

tvaughan 7y ago

And back when we had to read books to learn a language, the definitive guide on Perl was called "the camel book." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_Perl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_Perl

aflag 7y ago
I'm curious, how do you learn languages now?
- chmod775 7y ago
  I read a blog post with the basics, then Google everything else as I need it.
  - aflag 7y ago
    Interesting. A good book is very efficient at teaching you how to think in that particular language, rather than translating the ideas you have in another language into the new language. How do you learn that with your method? It sounds to me that it would require a long time programming in the new language to come to the same realisations by yourself.
    - chmod775 7y ago
      I've been developing software for more than ten years and it is rare now that I encounter anything genuinely new "idea wise" in a programming language. The main questions I have when doing something in an unfamiliar language are now: 1. What is the syntax for X 2. Can it do Y 3. Is there a library/builtin for Z For anything else, I've probably been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I remember using some books to get a structured introduction when I started out many years ago though. Nowadays I'll probably just open whatever existing code there is, go "ah, so it's like that", and hack away with the help of Google. The stuff that takes actual learning tend to be major frameworks for me, not so much whatever programming language is used.
      - weirdkid 7y ago
        This is how to learn to mimic a new language and avoid actually learning it. It’s the difference between carrying around a French phrase book and being able to converse like a native.
        b2gills 7y ago
        Yeah, I don't think that anyone learning Raku that way would realize that the {} in the following is actually a lambda. for @a { .say } So this works in basically the same way: my $lambda = { .say } @a.map( $lambda ); Or that the pointy block syntax … for @a -> $item { say $item } … works on every keyword of the form `KEYWORD (CONDITION) {BLOCK}`. if $a.method() -> $result { say $result } The pointy block is of course also a lambda. my $lambda = -> $result { say $result } --- Raku is a much more consistent language than beginners expect. The above is just one example of this. Because it is so consistent; once you learn something in one place, you can use that knowledge everywhere in the language. But first you have to realize that is even a possibility. It would take a long time to come to that conclusion if you write Raku by copy-pasting code. That is because very few languages are as strangely consistent as Raku.
  - Qcombinator 7y ago
    I think explains a lot of the polarised reactions people have towards Perl. It's trivial to understand the difference between the scalar var $foo and the array var $foo[0] if someone explains it to you or you read it; but if you're trying to Google-as-you-go, you don't even know what to search for. Those in the former group are more likely to find Perl delightful, while to the latter it's just frustrating.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > It's trivial to understand the difference between the scalar var $foo and the array var $foo[0] if someone explains it to you or you read it; I don't Perl much, but aren't those both scalars and @foo is an array variable. $foo[0] would be a scalar that is the first element of @foo, right?
      - Qcombinator 7y ago
        Yes, indeed — I should have said "scalar element of the array var..." or something.

Grinnz 7y ago

It is also a type of Japanese pottery. "Raku pottery is "imperfect but sophisticated", so that's a fit :)" https://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2018-10-25#l584 https://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2018-...

cestith 7y ago
That description also fits a camel.
- joshred 7y ago
  A camel strikes me as unsophisticated yet perfect.
  - cestith 7y ago
    I understand that impression but I think it requires a different point of view. They are highly adapted in multiple quite complex ways. It's possible we're using divergent definitions of "sophisticated". I was using the one that means complex, developed, and refined for an environment rather than the definition of being tasteful, intellectually pleasing, and socially experienced.
    - Dylan16807 7y ago
      That applies to every living thing ever, though. You're not focusing on the camel at all, or elevating it, unlike joshred's formulation.
      - cestith 7y ago
        Not everything that ever lived is as adapted as the camel and not in as many ways. it has huge fat stores so it can go a long time between meals. It can go a long time without even drinking. It has for thick enough it won't sunburn but thin enough it won't overheat easily. They have a third, translucent eyelid that opens to the side like something you might see on a reptile, but they still have the two main lashed eyelids like most mammals. They have a long, strong swatting tail. Their feet, unlike a horse or goat, are not hooved. They have a split foot with webbing in the middle that resists sinking in sand or soft soil. They're able to drink brackish or even salt water. They can eat stone fruits like dates with the stone. They'll eat cactus with the spines because their mouths are so tough. They eat fish, seeds, grains, and all sorts of things. They can eat foods far too salty for other animals and will even eat bones. Arabian camels will travel tens of kilometers a day in the wild to forage, in conditions many animals couldn't even survive, but can go two weeks between meals when they must. Saying they are no more complex and adapted than any other organism sells them far short. Yet they're more stubborn than a mule, somewhat slower than a horse, they smell worse than either, and they'll spit on a person like a llama. They've been known to bite. Their shape is not is amenable to riding although they are used as mounts. So there are things one might really want to change before spending a lot of time with one.

pvaldes 7y ago

> Raku appears to be from Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler, which is a shortened form of rakuda-dou (="way of the camel" in Japanese). Rakudo also means "paradise". The "raku" from "way of the camel" means "camel", while the "raku" from "paradise" means "fun" or "enjoyable" (or "music"). One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to use a computer language. Too many names. Raku is a good name indeed. Like a promise of prune and simplify all the former zoo of names that could finally allow the people to focuse in the program

coldtea 7y ago
>One of the worst problems for adoption of perl6 has been always overthinking. "Hey, look at my cool name" has never convinced anybody to use a computer language. Too many names. You're overthinking it. I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them...
- pvaldes 7y ago
  > I don't think those who came up with the names did so to, or cared to, convince people to use the language with them Mission acomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >Mission accomplished then, if we take a look to the low interest in people to massively adopt the language since it was released in 2015 Yeah, as if the name is what caused the non-adoption of a 20 years late replacement for a language that had already fallen out of fashion with developers (and with many growing pains in the compiler and tooling to boot). If anything, they used the "Perl 6" for most of the time, which renders the argument even more moot...
    - pvaldes 7y ago

Sharlin 7y ago

There was something strangely familiar about the word "raku" but it took me a moment to make the connection. In Finnish, "raakku" is a common name for the mollusc species Margaritifera margaritifera, better known as the… freshwater pearl mussel! [1] I'm really not sure if this is an amazing coincidence or yet another layer of linguistic brilliance. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freshwater_pearl_mussel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freshwater_pearl_mussel

GolDDranks 7y ago
Oh wow, I didn't know that, but I know that there is/was a band called "Raakku ja helmet". I always thought "Raakku" was a humorous nickname of the singer, because "raakkua" means "to cry like a crow", i.e. not so well. But "raakku" meaning "a mussel" brings a whole new level of meaning: "Mussel and the Pearls".

earenndil 7y ago

Meanwhile, in hebrew, it means spoiled or decayed. :)

cben 7y ago
That would be Rakuv רקוב, just Raku doesn't have any meaning in Hebrew. It does sound similar when pronounced though. (Hebrew word formation is from 3-consonant roots, not concatenation, so removing a letter doesn't give a related word. It's either an invalid word or a different root with 3rd voiceless consonant רקוא which is a not a root / רקוע Raku'a "flattened" but that doesn't sounds quite differently.)

wodenokoto 7y ago

Raku means happy, fun or relaxed: https://jisho.org/word/楽 https://jisho.org/word/楽 Rakudo means paradise: https://jisho.org/word/楽土 https://jisho.org/word/楽土 Rakuda is a camel: https://jisho.org/word/駱駝 https://jisho.org/word/駱駝

zumu 7y ago

So as a Japanese speaker, I don't think I ever would have made the 'raku' == 'rakuda' camel connection. Also, while 'raku' is the reading for 楽, which connotes easy, simple and other good things, it is also the reading for a bunch of other characters--namely, 落, which means or carries the connotation of falling, declining or otherwise missing the mark. When I see the 'raku' transliteration in the context of Perl, I think of 落. Not sure if that says something about my subconscious perception of Perl or not, but I can't help but think 'Raku' is a bad choice for the name of a language mired in indecision and falling from public favor. On another note, I find the inclination of tech projects towards poorly translated Japanese words amusing. It nicely compliments the phenomena you see in the use of random English words for the naming of Japanese cars, condo buildings, and other 'prestigious' products. So if you find that ridiculous, you should find these 'Japanese' technology names ridiculous as well.

Ultimatt 7y ago
Raku isnt falling from public favor, it hasn't made it yet. It's an entirely different language to Perl 5. Like the difference between C and C# or Java.
- zumu 7y ago
  Yea, sorry I'm not super familiar with the project, but that is the general vibe I get about Perl. Interestingly enough 落(raku) also has the connotation of failure or missing the target, so not very auspicious in the context of a new language either!
  - gpvos 7y ago
    > that is the general vibe I get about Perl. Perl <=5 did make it, it was quite big in the 90s and early 2000s.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]