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I still dont understand the point of this. Why are people trying to turn JavaScript into a systems programming language? It isnt, has never been, and never will

I still dont understand the point of this. Why are people trying to turn JavaScript into a systems programming language? It isnt, has never been, and never will be that. If you wish to use a systems programming language, use a systems programming language. Plenty of old ones (Java, C, C++) and plenty of new ones (Go, D, Nim, Rust, Zig) are available. Its like people took a square piece of rock and said: A: hey, lets chip off some corners so that this can roll! B: but now its an octagon... A: well if you put it on a hill it can tumble down! All the while several styles of modern wheels sit behind them.

krapp 7y ago
Webassembly isn't Javascript? I mean, people probably are trying to do systems programming in Javascript, and I agree that's ridiculous, but this isn't an example of it. Webassembly is just a spec for a language agnostic bytecode. Despite it's name, it isn't even meant to run only in the browser.
- gumby 7y ago
  > Webassembly is just a spec for a language agnostic bytecode. Despite it's name, it isn't even meant to run only in the browser. It's the same kind of namewashing as javascript's on name. Once more and we can call it a tradition!
josephg 7y ago
Uh, I think you have the metaphor the wrong way around. The goal of wasm / wasi isn’t to allow javascript to be a systems language. It’s to allow systems languages to be used in javascript, or allow them to interoperate with one another or run on different operating systems, or run on different hardware platforms. In javascript we’ve been stuck using octagon wheels but there’s all these new modern wheels sitting around that we haven’t been able to use because browsers could only run javascript. But now we have a way to fit the modern wheels on our javascript car.
- snagglegaggle 7y ago
  But I gave you octagon wheels because I don't want you using real wheels.
  - josephg 7y ago
    You don’t want web developers to have access to the tools we need to make websites cpu and and memory efficient? I for one am sick of web apps being so slow and bloated. The day react’s code runs in wasm with native wsdl calls is the day websites the world over will suddenly get a lot faster. What is the problem with that?
    - fredsanford 7y ago
      And also the day every browser will turn into IE 5.x
jameskilton 7y ago
WASM is not Javascript. WASM is solving the problem Java tried to solve many years ago (and for the most part failed): write once, run anywhere.
jokoon 7y ago
Because js is an interpreted language with all the problem is carries, it was designed in 10 days and many developers can't stand it. Optimized js engines are very complex and cannot be fast on smartphones. Did you know those engines optimize code while it's running based on execution paths? It's a nightmare for determinism. Enabling an agnostic compile target is the greatest thing that could ever happen to the web.

krapp 7y ago

Webassembly isn't Javascript? I mean, people probably are trying to do systems programming in Javascript, and I agree that's ridiculous, but this isn't an example of it. Webassembly is just a spec for a language agnostic bytecode. Despite it's name, it isn't even meant to run only in the browser.

gumby 7y ago
> Webassembly is just a spec for a language agnostic bytecode. Despite it's name, it isn't even meant to run only in the browser. It's the same kind of namewashing as javascript's on name. Once more and we can call it a tradition!

josephg 7y ago

Uh, I think you have the metaphor the wrong way around. The goal of wasm / wasi isn’t to allow javascript to be a systems language. It’s to allow systems languages to be used in javascript, or allow them to interoperate with one another or run on different operating systems, or run on different hardware platforms. In javascript we’ve been stuck using octagon wheels but there’s all these new modern wheels sitting around that we haven’t been able to use because browsers could only run javascript. But now we have a way to fit the modern wheels on our javascript car.

snagglegaggle 7y ago
But I gave you octagon wheels because I don't want you using real wheels.
- josephg 7y ago
  You don’t want web developers to have access to the tools we need to make websites cpu and and memory efficient? I for one am sick of web apps being so slow and bloated. The day react’s code runs in wasm with native wsdl calls is the day websites the world over will suddenly get a lot faster. What is the problem with that?
  - fredsanford 7y ago
    And also the day every browser will turn into IE 5.x

jameskilton 7y ago

WASM is not Javascript. WASM is solving the problem Java tried to solve many years ago (and for the most part failed): write once, run anywhere.

jokoon 7y ago

Because js is an interpreted language with all the problem is carries, it was designed in 10 days and many developers can't stand it. Optimized js engines are very complex and cannot be fast on smartphones. Did you know those engines optimize code while it's running based on execution paths? It's a nightmare for determinism. Enabling an agnostic compile target is the greatest thing that could ever happen to the web.