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Maybe these kinds of things will push us more towards decentralized power generation like solar and wind, and bigger lab-wide or campus-wide battery battery bac

by atonse 7y ago

Maybe these kinds of things will push us more towards decentralized power generation like solar and wind, and bigger lab-wide or campus-wide battery battery backups?

mc32 7y ago
No, it's going to lead to even more regulation which in turn will constrain what PG&E can do even further. At this point, it should just become a state owned and operated enterprise and drop the dressing of being private. Once it does that, we'll come to appreciate their service as much as we appreciate the schedulekeeping of the MUNI.
- xxpor 7y ago
  All utilities should.
- baddox 7y ago
  PG&E has a government-granted monopoly to provide its utilities to its coverage region. That makes it indistinguishable from a state-owner enterprise, except that there are probably even more people reducing efficiency by extracting value for themselves.
  - SamReidHughes 7y ago
    Extraction of value means increased efficiency is incentivized. Obvious caveats about cutting corners with brush removal but also the shared responsibility of homes built in dangerous places apply.
    - baddox 7y ago
      Where would that incentive come from? Not from the threat of competitors, because no competitors are allowed to exist. There would perhaps be some slight incentive due to the slight elasticity of demand for electricity (i.e. people can probably reduce their energy usage in response to higher prices), but I imagine that elasticity is quite low indeed. It’s more likely that the more significant incentives would be other things, like, oh, not maintaining equipment and eventually causing wildfires.
      - SamReidHughes 7y ago
        Increased efficiency increases profits.
        baddox 7y ago
        Increasing efficiency requires significant investment, which decreases profits now. And why do that now, when you have no competitors?
        SamReidHughes 7y ago
        How do they have shareholders?
jjoonathan 7y ago
Maybe in California. Most electric utilities in most states aren't regularly given insane contradictory legal directives that can only be reconciled by cutting power. This is not normal.
- Blackthorn 7y ago
  PG&E is the poster child for regulatory capture. They're only in this mess because they've dragged their feet for so long on making critical upgrades and fixes.
  - jjoonathan 7y ago
    The way I hear it they were required to make the critical upgrades and forbidden from charging high enough rates to pay for it. If this is true, then the people imposing those two constraints have only themselves to blame for the blackouts. Regulatory capture is a thing that happens and is a problem, but this seems to be a case of bad regulation, not regulatory capture.
    - rodgerd 7y ago
      > If this is true, then the people imposing those two constraints have only themselves to blame for the blackouts. This is not true. PG&E have been returning phenominal divideds. They have chosen to prefer to dump their asset management budget into dividends.
      - jjoonathan 7y ago
        It really doesn't look like their dividends were atypical before they went to 0 on Dec 2017: https://ycharts.com/companies/PCG/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/PCG/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/SO/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/SO/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/DUK/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/DUK/dividend_yield
        7y ago
em3rgent0rdr 7y ago
Or Advanced Small Modular Nuclear Reactors.
baddox 7y ago
Or even just a remotely competent group of people running the electricity grid.
BurningFrog 7y ago
Maybe this is the watershed moment when society finally becomes rational. But I wouldn't count on it :)
mxuribe 7y ago
This is interesting because if this happened in other states or countries, i might disagree with you...but considering it happened in California - where much innovation happens - i wonder how many existing and start-up firms will look to innovate on decentralized power generation even if only just for their own itch to scratch. I'm hoping that firms in California get pissed off enough to really increase the push for more decentralized modes of power...so instead of having engineers figure out how to invade our privacy or click online ads more, perhaps they can work on decentralized, reliable, and yes cheaper power generation.

by atonse 7y ago

Maybe these kinds of things will push us more towards decentralized power generation like solar and wind, and bigger lab-wide or campus-wide battery battery backups?

mc32 7y ago

No, it's going to lead to even more regulation which in turn will constrain what PG&E can do even further. At this point, it should just become a state owned and operated enterprise and drop the dressing of being private. Once it does that, we'll come to appreciate their service as much as we appreciate the schedulekeeping of the MUNI.

xxpor 7y ago
All utilities should.
baddox 7y ago
PG&E has a government-granted monopoly to provide its utilities to its coverage region. That makes it indistinguishable from a state-owner enterprise, except that there are probably even more people reducing efficiency by extracting value for themselves.
- SamReidHughes 7y ago
  Extraction of value means increased efficiency is incentivized. Obvious caveats about cutting corners with brush removal but also the shared responsibility of homes built in dangerous places apply.
  - baddox 7y ago
    Where would that incentive come from? Not from the threat of competitors, because no competitors are allowed to exist. There would perhaps be some slight incentive due to the slight elasticity of demand for electricity (i.e. people can probably reduce their energy usage in response to higher prices), but I imagine that elasticity is quite low indeed. It’s more likely that the more significant incentives would be other things, like, oh, not maintaining equipment and eventually causing wildfires.
    - SamReidHughes 7y ago
      Increased efficiency increases profits.
      - baddox 7y ago
        Increasing efficiency requires significant investment, which decreases profits now. And why do that now, when you have no competitors?
        SamReidHughes 7y ago
        How do they have shareholders?

jjoonathan 7y ago

Maybe in California. Most electric utilities in most states aren't regularly given insane contradictory legal directives that can only be reconciled by cutting power. This is not normal.

Blackthorn 7y ago
PG&E is the poster child for regulatory capture. They're only in this mess because they've dragged their feet for so long on making critical upgrades and fixes.
- jjoonathan 7y ago
  The way I hear it they were required to make the critical upgrades and forbidden from charging high enough rates to pay for it. If this is true, then the people imposing those two constraints have only themselves to blame for the blackouts. Regulatory capture is a thing that happens and is a problem, but this seems to be a case of bad regulation, not regulatory capture.
  - rodgerd 7y ago
    > If this is true, then the people imposing those two constraints have only themselves to blame for the blackouts. This is not true. PG&E have been returning phenominal divideds. They have chosen to prefer to dump their asset management budget into dividends.
    - jjoonathan 7y ago
      It really doesn't look like their dividends were atypical before they went to 0 on Dec 2017: https://ycharts.com/companies/PCG/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/PCG/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/SO/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/SO/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/DUK/dividend_yield https://ycharts.com/companies/DUK/dividend_yield
      - 7y ago

em3rgent0rdr 7y ago

Or Advanced Small Modular Nuclear Reactors.

baddox 7y ago

Or even just a remotely competent group of people running the electricity grid.

BurningFrog 7y ago

Maybe this is the watershed moment when society finally becomes rational. But I wouldn't count on it :)

mxuribe 7y ago

This is interesting because if this happened in other states or countries, i might disagree with you...but considering it happened in California - where much innovation happens - i wonder how many existing and start-up firms will look to innovate on decentralized power generation even if only just for their own itch to scratch. I'm hoping that firms in California get pissed off enough to really increase the push for more decentralized modes of power...so instead of having engineers figure out how to invade our privacy or click online ads more, perhaps they can work on decentralized, reliable, and yes cheaper power generation.