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I switched from macOS to Linux [Fedora now] about a year and a half ago, out of the same frustrations that affect a lotta folks -- It took a little while to ad

I switched from macOS to Linux [Fedora now] about a year and a half ago, out of the same frustrations that affect a lotta folks -- It took a little while to adjust, but since there are a lot of similarities between the Linux and Darwin command lines [and Linux package management being better than homebrew by my lights] , it wasn't very long before I was like "Damn, why didn't I switch 20 years ago!!!" Plus now my hardware works [edit : and is user-serviceable], is reasonably ergonomic, and OS updates don't break my existing programs...

fossuser 7y ago
Does the hardware actually work? I've used Linux several times over the years and the hardware never totally works. I've always had trackpad issues, issues with suspend and hibernate, wifi issues, screen resolution issues, battery life issues, sound issues, driver issues etc. It 'works' in terms of you can technically do work on it, but you have to make a huge number of concessions and this is before considering it has less application support. [Edit]: The replies suggest this is mostly still the case, people say it works flawlessly - except for [insert issue here]
- TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
  Newer distributions like Ubuntu, Fedora tend to have much better hardware support than other distros. I've used Linux since Ubuntu 7.04, and hardware support has made leaps and bounds since then. That said, it's still not perfect, and warrants a trial on a throwaway hard drive if absolute hardware functionality is a must.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    Except Arch, which is miles better in hardware support because it is uses the very latest kernels
    - tracker1 7y ago
      As long as the 38 step install process works. ;-) I tried, it locked up trying to load the GUI, specifically 5.3 kernel installer for navi support. Wound up reverting to Ubuntu LTS, will re-evaluate in 6 months when things for my hardware stabilizes.
      - ekianjo 7y ago
        Done the install manually several times and it is crystal clear what you have to do once you understand how Linux works from boot to the OS. Of course not recommended for beginners and those who have no interest in how the internals work. Sorry to hear it did not work for Navi, was the wiki any helpful to understand what goes wrong?
        tracker1 7y ago
        Not really... pretty much started loading, then hard locked... couldn't navigate (ctrl-alt-f#) to a usable terminal, etc. At that point, I'd been through several failed attempts and just jumped to Ubuntu LTS, since it's supported by AMD, and dealt with the wifi and onboard audio not working. Started with Pop!_OS with 5.x kernel (5.2 fir wifi drivers, though not using it). Onboard audio also weird, the UI would show for audio out, but alsamixer was needed to raise "headset" to control the port. When I upgraded to 5.3 and dropped in the lib files for navi10, it booted with the card swapped but stuck at 1080p (on a big 4k screen) after messing with it, I couldn't boot to a gui, but was still able to use the terminal. I decided to give Manjaro architect a try (since you can choose your kernel) that gave the same issue that Arch itself seemed to... hard locking during boot. I would like to know more, but at some point, I just want to get work done...
        ekianjo 7y ago
        Can you give me more details about your configuration? pm is ok
        tracker1 7y ago
- dhruvkar 7y ago
  Pop_OS! couples with a new Thinkpad work beautifully together. The ISO already had nvidia drivers bundled. Volume, brightness, functions keys worked out of the box.
- wldlyinaccurate 7y ago
  In my experience most hardware works flawlessly, although admittedly some hardware is better-supported. I've owned two (soon three) Dell XPS 13 laptops since 2013 and have always had a really smooth experience running Ubuntu. The worst of my Linux woes were the usual suspend/hibernate issues running Ubuntu on company-provided Thinkpads. I've also had to use various Macs for work in the past and have had terrible issues with wireless networking and bluetooth.
  - dcow 7y ago
    Suspend/hibernate works on thinkpads with a moderately recent Linux kernel and a bios toggle.
    - ekianjo 7y ago
      Source about the BIOS part? I own many thinkpads and use them at work too and never had to do anything with BIOS settings.
      - dcow 7y ago
        Some thinkpad models (e.g. 6th gen x1 carbon) didn't ship with bios support for the s3 sleep state. It was added later. Even the ones that were shipped with an updated bios did not have the option enabled (because windows uses "modern sleep"). I don't have a source listing all the lenovo hardware that needs to be configured for proper linux sleep.
  - vvillena 7y ago
    I run Archlinux on a gaming laptop (a Lenovo Legion) and it's perfect for my needs. And everything works! Linux becomes better and more compatible with each passing year. This laptop is a portable development machine with a nice keyboard and a powerful enough processor (I specifically wanted a 45W CPU). All the "pro" laptops seem to be focused on smaller sizes, and on premium/luxury features and price. I'm glad cheap gaming laptops running Linux are a perfect fit for my use case.
    - 7y ago
- xur17 7y ago
  I've always specifically selected and researched my hardware before buying. Typically Thinkpads are a good bet - I've used several different generations of The X1 and T series with no problems. I'm currently using an X1 carbon that has great battery life, suspends properly, handles external displays, etc.
  - akvadrako 7y ago
    I have the latest X1 and almost nobody has a working mic. Also battery life sucks and Bluetoothd always needs a restart after suspends. Ready for the desktop?
    - xur17 7y ago
      I believe mine is a gen 6.
    - bproven 7y ago
      I have a gen 6 and no issues. Is it a 7th gen? BTW what disto? Im on Fedora 30. I would check that you have linux compat turned on in firmware and patch to latest firmware. Also running tlp helps depending on the distro. I get good bat life, mic works fine and no BT issues after sleep/wake.
      - akvadrako 7y ago
        This is gen 7. I do run tlp and latest firmware and they do help a bit.
- jdance 7y ago
  My ASUS Zenbook (like 3 years old) works absolutely flawlessly. I actually had full crashes on windows, but none on linux. I never thought it would be this good. The only issues I have had is that the sound output sometimes does not automatically switch to/from HDMI when I unplug a TV, and that gnome gets slightly laggy after a really long uptime (its a really weak laptop performance wise). And I'm a person who gets very annoyed with small issues, I'm just super happy. I have a real native terminal with package management, and a window system that I like, and all software except photoshop.
- MisterOctober 7y ago
  As the comments below suggest [and I also run Thinkpads for portables] -- yep, it works real good for me. Fedora 30 especially has been essentially flawless in my case. No issues with suspend, drivers [even for notoriously fickle stuff like printers], sound, etc -- just solid performance. EDIT: actually, on one of my workstations I have a ten-year-old Quadro 4000 that was being a pain in the neck on Fedora 29 -- but the fellows over at LinuxQuestions sorted me out in two shakes.
- jseliger 7y ago
  Some vendors are now shipping what seems to be consistently working and vetted hardware. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21216195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21216195
- colmvp 7y ago
  FWIW, I switched from using a Mac for a decade to using Ubuntu on a brand new Dell XPS and it works perfectly. Even though Linux users are a tiny minority of users, I find they are quite helpful at publishing their problems and eventual solutions. I did have issues setting up certain drivers (i.e. the bloody wifi which tbh is still a bit iffy on my machine) but otherwise it's been amazing.
  - __MatrixMan__ 7y ago
    I hear you about the community of Linux users. I'd rather have 100 bugs that I could fix in principle than 1 bug that I just have to deal with because some company thinks it's a feature. And I'd rather be part of thousands of engaged tinkerer types interested in improving the support community than be part of millions that would rather convince me that their expensive hardware is proportionally better instead of actually talking about the tech. I've been using Linux as a daily driver since high school (15 years ago). Lately though, I have noticed that we Linux types are insufferable in our own ways...
    - K0SM0S 7y ago
      “Lately though, I have noticed that we Linux types are insufferable in our own ways...” Indeed, but this is the (sour) price of 'victory' too: it means Linux is going mainstream now. Hence, it's becoming more 'popular' with all that entails... Linux is best 'lived' in professional circles nowadays, imho: specific blogs, forums and channels with solution-driven people. I find myself more and more attracted to the RHEL/CentOS/Fedora space for this reason, too.
      - __MatrixMan__ 7y ago
        Eh. I think Linux is sufficiently fragmented (in this case it's a good thing) that there will always be somewhere to hide if dealing with the ups and downs of the masses isn't your thing. I like helping people, so if the future holds more software today breaks transparently, then that's more people I'll be able to help.
- bproven 7y ago
  stick with good hardware - IME Lenovo T series thinkpads OR (best choice) X1 Carbon. No issues for me in almost 2 years on Fedora.
  - akvadrako 7y ago
    X1 carbon is not a good choice for Linux. The mic requires proprietary firmware that can only be loaded with mixed success on the latest kernel.
    - bproven 7y ago
      this is not true on the 6th gen. I don't know about the 7th gen though... if it is true on 7th gen it would be a shame. Although traditionally lenovo has done well with linux, I will say this is where Dell does this better - actually certifying and supporting some of its laptops on linux for devs.
      - akvadrako 7y ago
        Most X1s are also Ubuntu certified - it doesn’t mean much.
- Cyph0n 7y ago
  I recently built a home media server/PC and decided to try Manjaro. Amazingly, everything worked out of the box. I actually had a Ubuntu live USB ready to go in case I hit issues, but now I’m in love with Manjaro + KDE :)
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    Manjaro has become really good indeed. Good defaults too and the install process was fairly well done.
- hinkley 7y ago
  My only Linux laptop was a Fujitsu Lifebook. Turns out laptop manufacturers are garbage at writing ACPI drivers for their own hardware, and so Microsoft has been going around quietly patching them so nobody notices. I ended up having to create my own driver for the lifebook. I cobbled from two other people's failed attempts at making a better one (each fixed different problems) and some fixes from the newest model in that product line. At no point in time did I think it would be fun to write ACPI drivers. I uploaded it somewhere so nobody else would have to deal with this bullshit, but you still had to recompile the kernel to get the new version to override the firmware. At the time they were still talking about how Linux was going to take over the desktop, while the early numbers were already in that laptops were killing desktops. Linux is taking over the server room, but it's essentially nonexistent anywhere else, and it truly has earned that honor.
- lol768 7y ago
  >[Edit]: The replies suggest this is mostly still the case, people say it works flawlessly - except for [insert issue here] I count 7 or 8 broadly unconditional "it works fine" child comments. 1 "it mostly works", 1 "I had to write my own ACPI driver", 1 "it works fine except HDMI sound switching isn't automatic sometimes", 1 "drivers were hard to set-up, WiFi is iffy", 1 "it's not perfect so try it first". IMO that's majority positive - more than can be said for e.g. macOS which fails to do basic things like mount and copy files off an Android phone out of the box. I don't think your conclusion is a fair one (or perhaps it was premature) and is perhaps tainted by your own negative experiences.
  - hrktb 7y ago
    At my last job we had people very happy with linux, with the following caveats: - they didn’t care about moving it around half a day and keeping decent battery life, for most of them it was effectively a desktop. - they didn’t care about any CJK support. None of them would be bitching about chinese fonts on japanese pages or worse IME. - they didn’t need any peripherals outside of screens, keyboards and mices. We had to use a usb dongle to project into videoconf room at a client, I have no hope it would have worked on linux. Printer/scanners would be a nightmare too (and it’s already not good on other platforms I concede) Linux workstations are plenty usable, thus a lot of positive feedback. But we should acknowledge it’s not for every use case, and it can need tweaking in parts that are different for each user. MacOS with all its current flaws has still a lot of things better done than most (any?) linuxes.
    - saghm 7y ago
      > - they didn’t need any peripherals outside of screens, keyboards and mices. We had to use a usb dongle to project into videoconf room at a client, I have no hope it would have worked on linux. You can actually buy Linux laptops with not just USB-C, but also USB-A, HDMI, Ethernet ports, etc. As someone with a Linux laptop who has never run into a peripheral issue and has coworkers with peripheral issues with their MacBooks, I'm not super convinced that the grass is greener on the Mac side of this one.
- lol768 7y ago
  >I've used Linux several times over the years and the hardware never totally works > Does the hardware actually work? Yes, flawlessly. Desktop with a GeForce GTX 970 (prop. driver) & AMD Ryzen 5 2600 & MSI B450M PRO-M2 V2 (MS-7B84). Laptop (Lenovo Yoga 730) works just as fine.
- rlpb 7y ago
  This is a common question but particularly unfair on a post about Macs. Buy hardware that ships with Linux, such as a Dell XPS that ships with Ubuntu pre-installed, and it'll work fine. Try to install on some random hardware, and of course you may have issues depending on who has volunteered what quality of drivers for that hardware. The same applies to all Apple hardware. Nobody expects to install macOS on some random hardware, so why in a comparison to Macs is this a concern?
  - MisterOctober 7y ago
    1) For the record, all my Linux machines came preinstalled with Windows; 2) I don't think it's at all unfair to macOS / Mac hardware. Macs used to be great, hardware and software-wise, for development and other "making stuff" type work, and they used to be stone reliable. There's been a real qualitative change in Apple's approach to 'pro' users [for lack of a better term] -- OS updates having more unexpected / unwelcome effects, number and type of physical ports on systems becoming smaller and less practical [not even one single normal USB port on this year's MPB!], user-servicability + upgradeability of hardware diminishing over time to practically zero -- the situation is well bad. I was a devoted macOS / OSX user, but as I mentioned in the earlier comment, I got fed up and jumped ship due to these reasons, which reasons had real impact on my productivity and contentedness-as-a-user
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Does the hardware actually work? Considering that HN is full of programmers and technical users, and literally every time Linux is mentioned people go "I had a problem getting Z working, but I did that and...", "X and Y did not work", "U is not supported", I'd say hit and miss. Case in point, just from this thread, and from people who say they are otherwise satisfied: "The worst of my Linux woes were the usual suspend/hibernate issues running Ubuntu on company-provided Thinkpads." "Suspend/hibernate works on thinkpads with a moderately recent Linux kernel and a bios toggle." "The only issues I have had is that the sound output sometimes does not automatically switch to/from HDMI when I unplug a TV, and that gnome gets slightly laggy after a really long uptime (its a really weak laptop performance wise)." "I did have issues setting up certain drivers (i.e. the bloody wifi which tbh is still a bit iffy on my machine) but otherwise it's been amazing." "actually, on one of my workstations I have a ten-year-old Quadro 4000 that was being a pain in the neck on Fedora 29 -- but the fellows over at LinuxQuestions sorted me out in two shakes." "I have the latest X1 and almost nobody has a working mic. Also battery life sucks and Bluetoothd always needs a restart after suspends." "I have a gen 6 and no issues. Is it a 7th gen? BTW what disto? Im on Fedora 30. I would check that you have linux compat turned on in firmware and patch to latest firmware." "My only Linux laptop was a Fujitsu Lifebook. Turns out laptop manufacturers are garbage at writing ACPI drivers for their own hardware, and so Microsoft has been going around quietly patching them so nobody notices. I ended up having to create my own driver for the lifebook. I cobbled from two other people's failed attempts at making a better one (each fixed different problems) and some fixes from the newest model in that product line. At no point in time did I think it would be fun to write ACPI drivers."
  - komali2 7y ago
    Counterpoint is we just issued a shitload of the latest gen x1 carbons (whatever the first gen to get USB c is) and it's all flawless out of the box for Ubuntu. I guess they ship now with a firmware update to fix s3 sleep issues.
  - c22 7y ago
    I haven't touched windows or mac os for 15+ years. I definitely recall having to recompile my kernel, tweak default configurations, or hack up broken code to get my desktops working back in the day, but it really hasn't been an issue for at least 7 or 8 years now. One thing I started doing that makes a huge difference is only buying parts and systems that appear on a major distro's compatibility list. You got me, though, I did have issues with my bluetooth mouse losing connection during suspend on my latest Thinkpad. You could get it working by turning the mouse off then on again, but eventually I fixed it for good with a two line shell script.
- alasdair_ 7y ago
  >I've used Linux several times over the years and the hardware never totally works. I've always had trackpad issues, issues with suspend and hibernate, wifi issues, screen resolution issues, battery life issues, sound issues, driver issues etc. I have a dell XPS13 that came pre-loaded with Ubuntu. It works perfectly out of the box and the hardware quality is fantastic.
- tracker1 7y ago
  Currently reverted to Ubuntu LTS for navi gpu support, wifi not working, but using ethernet anyway, and using an external usb audio adapter. Flawless it isn't... for a desktop, entirely usable. If I were going laptop would be doing a LOT of research and going for a last generation device.
- jtanderson 7y ago
  Isn't the whole point of OP one giant "it works flawlessly - except for xxx" post? Except in this case, the xxx is a much more seriously negative experience compared to a couple small up-front issues with getting hardware set up the correct way. It's pretty clear that no OS is going to be perfect; but the message I take away is that Linux is to the point where you completely have the ability to tweak and adjust your system so that it works flawlessly after some effort (as in my case, switched ~1.5 years ago. Zero problems after initial checking of driver situations). On the other hand, macOS, even from a technically savvy point of view, is unfriendly and beyond the user's power to fix.
- alexeldeib 7y ago
  Ubuntu 18 on carbon x1 extreme. Really smooth, until I do anything special. Never got external monitor working. Just had issues with my wifi yesterday that persisted through reboots and randomly worked after I booted back into windows and then linux again (dual boot). Lost hours of my life trying to get any combination of browser + smartcard reader to work with two different card readers. Sleep/Hibernate still don't work properly all the time. Sometimes my laptop decides to do the right thing, and I pray it doesn't undo itself and drain the battery in my backpack.
- nwallin 7y ago
  The hardware/driver situation is unambiguously better on Linux than it is on Windows. I've had ten times as many problems on Windows over the past ten years or so than I've had on Linux. (never been a serious user of OSX, although I imagine it's better than the situation on either Windows or Linux because Apple controls both the hardware and software) The problem people run into is that they fall into one of two shitty extremes. You either dive into the deep end and try to configure your own kernel and forget something. (Common in Gentoo circles) Or you go with Debian stable or RHEL and their kernel is two years old and they don't have drivers for the latest generation of graphics drivers because of course they don't. Just install Ubuntu like a normal person and you'll be fine. Problems with WiFi, trackpads, and hibernation haven't been a problem since like 2010 or so. I get 11 hours battery life on my XPS 13 9360 which advertised 9 hours battery life when it was new in 2016. > people say it works flawlessly - except for [insert issue here] This is a thread about how OSX works flawlessly except for [insert issue here]. And as it happens there are a pile of issues this time around. If you have a house that doesn't have stones thrown through its glass walls (besides TempleOS) I'd love to hear about it.
dddddaviddddd 7y ago
Similar motivations led to FreeBSD being my main OS, even fewer differences between all the Unix utilities.
- MisterOctober 7y ago
  Yep! I dig FreeBSD also, and strongly considered it especially for that reason -- just ended up going with Linux because I had a little more experience with it [having remotely used / administered linux servers &etc]
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  I tried and failed to get going with OpenBSD. I want to slowly dip my toes into the water of a BSD. Is there a way to have a turn-key system that I can immediately start working on as I do on macOS, and gradually become more familiar with the OS? I guess what I’m saying is, there are systems that you can buy where the manufacturer has preinstalled Ubuntu and you have a high expectation of the hardware getting out of the way. I want that for FreeBSD or OpenBSD?
bproven 7y ago
I agree. And I just did the opposite. Been using Fedora for a year or so on an X1 Carbon and switched to having to use a new 2019 macbook pro for work. I had fond memories of macs when I last used them 6 years ago but today....wow. Not that great an of an experience. At this point for work (eng, devops/sre etc) I'd rather have Linux and I really wish I could use my carbon X1. :( I see no real adv to dealing with the mac platform today if what you want is a "unix" env. On the Linux of today, the minor annoyances are worth it - and they really are very minor on good hardware and a mainstream distro like Fedora or Ubuntu. Plus you get the tooling on the platform it was developed for - real docker, real pkg mgmt, etc. Don't get me wrong, there are still some nice things in macos and the hardware (yes the trackpad is nice), but to me they really are not compelling enough args now - at least for me. Now if only we could get a few of these minor annoyances fixed in the Linux desktop (e.g. Gnome) then I think it might really be the "year of Linux on the desktop" ;)
- MisterOctober 7y ago
  Spot on re : tooling -- likewise, I too gave up on Gnome early on, and also dislike KDE [too heavy] -- a friend turned me on to LXDE and it's been smooth sailing since
  - dTal 7y ago
    If you haven't tried KDE Plasma in the last year or two, it's worth revisiting. I tentatively tried KDE 4.x back when it was the hot thing, and was disgusted by how it seemed to bring even a top-spec gaming desktop to its knees. Now I run Plasma 5 on my laptop (on Void Linux - I feel that package maintainers make a big difference here), and it's far and away the best desktop experience I've ever had. I've finally recovered that sense I always got from the Windows 95 shell, that's been missing in every desktop environment until now - that sense of "wow, they've really thought this through".
    - MisterOctober 7y ago
      Thanks for the tip; I'll check it out!
tracker1 7y ago
Just don't buy hardware that is too new. X570 platform and rx5700xt, and issues a plenty. Not to mention absolutely abysmal RGB support from hardware vendors.
rapind 7y ago
Literally all I use on a daily basis for the past 5+ years is: - Terminal of some sort - Browser (Chrome, Chromium, Firefox) Really just want a stable OS that stays out of my way, and never pushes shiny new features, only performance and security patches. But the responsiveness of browsers on linux turns me off every time I try to switch (feels sluggish). Also, I like the MacBook hardware, battery, aesthetic. Just been falling out of love with the OS for the last few years as they seem to be semi-combining it with iOS. Due for an upgrade and have been eyeing the latest MBA... but the OS is getting super annoying.
- IggleSniggle 7y ago
  I’m in a similar boat. I keep really wanting to like Linux; I give it a try, and then get annoyed that for some reason my terminal process is causing my browser UI to lock, or some such nonsense. Sometimes it’s just that there’s no dictator keeping all the keyboard shortcuts relatively consistent between applications. Then I’ll fantasize for a little bit about OpenBSD or FreeBSD, sigh, and go back to using macOS. I like futzing around with my operating system, but I expect my changes to make things overall worse for the general user, because I have weird preferences. The OS should not be doing the weird preferences. Sometimes I wonder about Linux users who say you can’t customize macOS. In my experience, it’s a lot of the same kinds of customization potential and rooting around in the system...updating the OS may totally mess up your configuration, but the same is true of updates in the Linux or BSD world.

fossuser 7y ago

Does the hardware actually work? I've used Linux several times over the years and the hardware never totally works. I've always had trackpad issues, issues with suspend and hibernate, wifi issues, screen resolution issues, battery life issues, sound issues, driver issues etc. It 'works' in terms of you can technically do work on it, but you have to make a huge number of concessions and this is before considering it has less application support. [Edit]: The replies suggest this is mostly still the case, people say it works flawlessly - except for [insert issue here]

TheAdamAndChe 7y ago
Newer distributions like Ubuntu, Fedora tend to have much better hardware support than other distros. I've used Linux since Ubuntu 7.04, and hardware support has made leaps and bounds since then. That said, it's still not perfect, and warrants a trial on a throwaway hard drive if absolute hardware functionality is a must.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  Except Arch, which is miles better in hardware support because it is uses the very latest kernels
  - tracker1 7y ago
    As long as the 38 step install process works. ;-) I tried, it locked up trying to load the GUI, specifically 5.3 kernel installer for navi support. Wound up reverting to Ubuntu LTS, will re-evaluate in 6 months when things for my hardware stabilizes.
    - ekianjo 7y ago
      Done the install manually several times and it is crystal clear what you have to do once you understand how Linux works from boot to the OS. Of course not recommended for beginners and those who have no interest in how the internals work. Sorry to hear it did not work for Navi, was the wiki any helpful to understand what goes wrong?
      - tracker1 7y ago
        Not really... pretty much started loading, then hard locked... couldn't navigate (ctrl-alt-f#) to a usable terminal, etc. At that point, I'd been through several failed attempts and just jumped to Ubuntu LTS, since it's supported by AMD, and dealt with the wifi and onboard audio not working. Started with Pop!_OS with 5.x kernel (5.2 fir wifi drivers, though not using it). Onboard audio also weird, the UI would show for audio out, but alsamixer was needed to raise "headset" to control the port. When I upgraded to 5.3 and dropped in the lib files for navi10, it booted with the card swapped but stuck at 1080p (on a big 4k screen) after messing with it, I couldn't boot to a gui, but was still able to use the terminal. I decided to give Manjaro architect a try (since you can choose your kernel) that gave the same issue that Arch itself seemed to... hard locking during boot. I would like to know more, but at some point, I just want to get work done...
        ekianjo 7y ago
        Can you give me more details about your configuration? pm is ok
        tracker1 7y ago
dhruvkar 7y ago
Pop_OS! couples with a new Thinkpad work beautifully together. The ISO already had nvidia drivers bundled. Volume, brightness, functions keys worked out of the box.
wldlyinaccurate 7y ago
In my experience most hardware works flawlessly, although admittedly some hardware is better-supported. I've owned two (soon three) Dell XPS 13 laptops since 2013 and have always had a really smooth experience running Ubuntu. The worst of my Linux woes were the usual suspend/hibernate issues running Ubuntu on company-provided Thinkpads. I've also had to use various Macs for work in the past and have had terrible issues with wireless networking and bluetooth.
- dcow 7y ago
  Suspend/hibernate works on thinkpads with a moderately recent Linux kernel and a bios toggle.
  - ekianjo 7y ago
    Source about the BIOS part? I own many thinkpads and use them at work too and never had to do anything with BIOS settings.
    - dcow 7y ago
      Some thinkpad models (e.g. 6th gen x1 carbon) didn't ship with bios support for the s3 sleep state. It was added later. Even the ones that were shipped with an updated bios did not have the option enabled (because windows uses "modern sleep"). I don't have a source listing all the lenovo hardware that needs to be configured for proper linux sleep.
- vvillena 7y ago
  I run Archlinux on a gaming laptop (a Lenovo Legion) and it's perfect for my needs. And everything works! Linux becomes better and more compatible with each passing year. This laptop is a portable development machine with a nice keyboard and a powerful enough processor (I specifically wanted a 45W CPU). All the "pro" laptops seem to be focused on smaller sizes, and on premium/luxury features and price. I'm glad cheap gaming laptops running Linux are a perfect fit for my use case.
  - 7y ago
xur17 7y ago
I've always specifically selected and researched my hardware before buying. Typically Thinkpads are a good bet - I've used several different generations of The X1 and T series with no problems. I'm currently using an X1 carbon that has great battery life, suspends properly, handles external displays, etc.
- akvadrako 7y ago
  I have the latest X1 and almost nobody has a working mic. Also battery life sucks and Bluetoothd always needs a restart after suspends. Ready for the desktop?
  - xur17 7y ago
    I believe mine is a gen 6.
  - bproven 7y ago
    I have a gen 6 and no issues. Is it a 7th gen? BTW what disto? Im on Fedora 30. I would check that you have linux compat turned on in firmware and patch to latest firmware. Also running tlp helps depending on the distro. I get good bat life, mic works fine and no BT issues after sleep/wake.
    - akvadrako 7y ago
      This is gen 7. I do run tlp and latest firmware and they do help a bit.
jdance 7y ago
My ASUS Zenbook (like 3 years old) works absolutely flawlessly. I actually had full crashes on windows, but none on linux. I never thought it would be this good. The only issues I have had is that the sound output sometimes does not automatically switch to/from HDMI when I unplug a TV, and that gnome gets slightly laggy after a really long uptime (its a really weak laptop performance wise). And I'm a person who gets very annoyed with small issues, I'm just super happy. I have a real native terminal with package management, and a window system that I like, and all software except photoshop.
MisterOctober 7y ago
As the comments below suggest [and I also run Thinkpads for portables] -- yep, it works real good for me. Fedora 30 especially has been essentially flawless in my case. No issues with suspend, drivers [even for notoriously fickle stuff like printers], sound, etc -- just solid performance. EDIT: actually, on one of my workstations I have a ten-year-old Quadro 4000 that was being a pain in the neck on Fedora 29 -- but the fellows over at LinuxQuestions sorted me out in two shakes.
jseliger 7y ago
Some vendors are now shipping what seems to be consistently working and vetted hardware. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21216195 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21216195
colmvp 7y ago
FWIW, I switched from using a Mac for a decade to using Ubuntu on a brand new Dell XPS and it works perfectly. Even though Linux users are a tiny minority of users, I find they are quite helpful at publishing their problems and eventual solutions. I did have issues setting up certain drivers (i.e. the bloody wifi which tbh is still a bit iffy on my machine) but otherwise it's been amazing.
- __MatrixMan__ 7y ago
  I hear you about the community of Linux users. I'd rather have 100 bugs that I could fix in principle than 1 bug that I just have to deal with because some company thinks it's a feature. And I'd rather be part of thousands of engaged tinkerer types interested in improving the support community than be part of millions that would rather convince me that their expensive hardware is proportionally better instead of actually talking about the tech. I've been using Linux as a daily driver since high school (15 years ago). Lately though, I have noticed that we Linux types are insufferable in our own ways...
  - K0SM0S 7y ago
    “Lately though, I have noticed that we Linux types are insufferable in our own ways...” Indeed, but this is the (sour) price of 'victory' too: it means Linux is going mainstream now. Hence, it's becoming more 'popular' with all that entails... Linux is best 'lived' in professional circles nowadays, imho: specific blogs, forums and channels with solution-driven people. I find myself more and more attracted to the RHEL/CentOS/Fedora space for this reason, too.
    - __MatrixMan__ 7y ago
      Eh. I think Linux is sufficiently fragmented (in this case it's a good thing) that there will always be somewhere to hide if dealing with the ups and downs of the masses isn't your thing. I like helping people, so if the future holds more software today breaks transparently, then that's more people I'll be able to help.
bproven 7y ago
stick with good hardware - IME Lenovo T series thinkpads OR (best choice) X1 Carbon. No issues for me in almost 2 years on Fedora.
- akvadrako 7y ago
  X1 carbon is not a good choice for Linux. The mic requires proprietary firmware that can only be loaded with mixed success on the latest kernel.
  - bproven 7y ago
    this is not true on the 6th gen. I don't know about the 7th gen though... if it is true on 7th gen it would be a shame. Although traditionally lenovo has done well with linux, I will say this is where Dell does this better - actually certifying and supporting some of its laptops on linux for devs.
    - akvadrako 7y ago
      Most X1s are also Ubuntu certified - it doesn’t mean much.
Cyph0n 7y ago
I recently built a home media server/PC and decided to try Manjaro. Amazingly, everything worked out of the box. I actually had a Ubuntu live USB ready to go in case I hit issues, but now I’m in love with Manjaro + KDE :)
- ekianjo 7y ago
  Manjaro has become really good indeed. Good defaults too and the install process was fairly well done.
hinkley 7y ago
My only Linux laptop was a Fujitsu Lifebook. Turns out laptop manufacturers are garbage at writing ACPI drivers for their own hardware, and so Microsoft has been going around quietly patching them so nobody notices. I ended up having to create my own driver for the lifebook. I cobbled from two other people's failed attempts at making a better one (each fixed different problems) and some fixes from the newest model in that product line. At no point in time did I think it would be fun to write ACPI drivers. I uploaded it somewhere so nobody else would have to deal with this bullshit, but you still had to recompile the kernel to get the new version to override the firmware. At the time they were still talking about how Linux was going to take over the desktop, while the early numbers were already in that laptops were killing desktops. Linux is taking over the server room, but it's essentially nonexistent anywhere else, and it truly has earned that honor.
lol768 7y ago
>[Edit]: The replies suggest this is mostly still the case, people say it works flawlessly - except for [insert issue here] I count 7 or 8 broadly unconditional "it works fine" child comments. 1 "it mostly works", 1 "I had to write my own ACPI driver", 1 "it works fine except HDMI sound switching isn't automatic sometimes", 1 "drivers were hard to set-up, WiFi is iffy", 1 "it's not perfect so try it first". IMO that's majority positive - more than can be said for e.g. macOS which fails to do basic things like mount and copy files off an Android phone out of the box. I don't think your conclusion is a fair one (or perhaps it was premature) and is perhaps tainted by your own negative experiences.
- hrktb 7y ago
  At my last job we had people very happy with linux, with the following caveats: - they didn’t care about moving it around half a day and keeping decent battery life, for most of them it was effectively a desktop. - they didn’t care about any CJK support. None of them would be bitching about chinese fonts on japanese pages or worse IME. - they didn’t need any peripherals outside of screens, keyboards and mices. We had to use a usb dongle to project into videoconf room at a client, I have no hope it would have worked on linux. Printer/scanners would be a nightmare too (and it’s already not good on other platforms I concede) Linux workstations are plenty usable, thus a lot of positive feedback. But we should acknowledge it’s not for every use case, and it can need tweaking in parts that are different for each user. MacOS with all its current flaws has still a lot of things better done than most (any?) linuxes.
  - saghm 7y ago
    > - they didn’t need any peripherals outside of screens, keyboards and mices. We had to use a usb dongle to project into videoconf room at a client, I have no hope it would have worked on linux. You can actually buy Linux laptops with not just USB-C, but also USB-A, HDMI, Ethernet ports, etc. As someone with a Linux laptop who has never run into a peripheral issue and has coworkers with peripheral issues with their MacBooks, I'm not super convinced that the grass is greener on the Mac side of this one.
lol768 7y ago
>I've used Linux several times over the years and the hardware never totally works > Does the hardware actually work? Yes, flawlessly. Desktop with a GeForce GTX 970 (prop. driver) & AMD Ryzen 5 2600 & MSI B450M PRO-M2 V2 (MS-7B84). Laptop (Lenovo Yoga 730) works just as fine.
rlpb 7y ago
This is a common question but particularly unfair on a post about Macs. Buy hardware that ships with Linux, such as a Dell XPS that ships with Ubuntu pre-installed, and it'll work fine. Try to install on some random hardware, and of course you may have issues depending on who has volunteered what quality of drivers for that hardware. The same applies to all Apple hardware. Nobody expects to install macOS on some random hardware, so why in a comparison to Macs is this a concern?
- MisterOctober 7y ago
  1) For the record, all my Linux machines came preinstalled with Windows; 2) I don't think it's at all unfair to macOS / Mac hardware. Macs used to be great, hardware and software-wise, for development and other "making stuff" type work, and they used to be stone reliable. There's been a real qualitative change in Apple's approach to 'pro' users [for lack of a better term] -- OS updates having more unexpected / unwelcome effects, number and type of physical ports on systems becoming smaller and less practical [not even one single normal USB port on this year's MPB!], user-servicability + upgradeability of hardware diminishing over time to practically zero -- the situation is well bad. I was a devoted macOS / OSX user, but as I mentioned in the earlier comment, I got fed up and jumped ship due to these reasons, which reasons had real impact on my productivity and contentedness-as-a-user
coldtea 7y ago
>Does the hardware actually work? Considering that HN is full of programmers and technical users, and literally every time Linux is mentioned people go "I had a problem getting Z working, but I did that and...", "X and Y did not work", "U is not supported", I'd say hit and miss. Case in point, just from this thread, and from people who say they are otherwise satisfied: "The worst of my Linux woes were the usual suspend/hibernate issues running Ubuntu on company-provided Thinkpads." "Suspend/hibernate works on thinkpads with a moderately recent Linux kernel and a bios toggle." "The only issues I have had is that the sound output sometimes does not automatically switch to/from HDMI when I unplug a TV, and that gnome gets slightly laggy after a really long uptime (its a really weak laptop performance wise)." "I did have issues setting up certain drivers (i.e. the bloody wifi which tbh is still a bit iffy on my machine) but otherwise it's been amazing." "actually, on one of my workstations I have a ten-year-old Quadro 4000 that was being a pain in the neck on Fedora 29 -- but the fellows over at LinuxQuestions sorted me out in two shakes." "I have the latest X1 and almost nobody has a working mic. Also battery life sucks and Bluetoothd always needs a restart after suspends." "I have a gen 6 and no issues. Is it a 7th gen? BTW what disto? Im on Fedora 30. I would check that you have linux compat turned on in firmware and patch to latest firmware." "My only Linux laptop was a Fujitsu Lifebook. Turns out laptop manufacturers are garbage at writing ACPI drivers for their own hardware, and so Microsoft has been going around quietly patching them so nobody notices. I ended up having to create my own driver for the lifebook. I cobbled from two other people's failed attempts at making a better one (each fixed different problems) and some fixes from the newest model in that product line. At no point in time did I think it would be fun to write ACPI drivers."
- komali2 7y ago
  Counterpoint is we just issued a shitload of the latest gen x1 carbons (whatever the first gen to get USB c is) and it's all flawless out of the box for Ubuntu. I guess they ship now with a firmware update to fix s3 sleep issues.
- c22 7y ago
  I haven't touched windows or mac os for 15+ years. I definitely recall having to recompile my kernel, tweak default configurations, or hack up broken code to get my desktops working back in the day, but it really hasn't been an issue for at least 7 or 8 years now. One thing I started doing that makes a huge difference is only buying parts and systems that appear on a major distro's compatibility list. You got me, though, I did have issues with my bluetooth mouse losing connection during suspend on my latest Thinkpad. You could get it working by turning the mouse off then on again, but eventually I fixed it for good with a two line shell script.
alasdair_ 7y ago
>I've used Linux several times over the years and the hardware never totally works. I've always had trackpad issues, issues with suspend and hibernate, wifi issues, screen resolution issues, battery life issues, sound issues, driver issues etc. I have a dell XPS13 that came pre-loaded with Ubuntu. It works perfectly out of the box and the hardware quality is fantastic.
tracker1 7y ago
Currently reverted to Ubuntu LTS for navi gpu support, wifi not working, but using ethernet anyway, and using an external usb audio adapter. Flawless it isn't... for a desktop, entirely usable. If I were going laptop would be doing a LOT of research and going for a last generation device.
jtanderson 7y ago
Isn't the whole point of OP one giant "it works flawlessly - except for xxx" post? Except in this case, the xxx is a much more seriously negative experience compared to a couple small up-front issues with getting hardware set up the correct way. It's pretty clear that no OS is going to be perfect; but the message I take away is that Linux is to the point where you completely have the ability to tweak and adjust your system so that it works flawlessly after some effort (as in my case, switched ~1.5 years ago. Zero problems after initial checking of driver situations). On the other hand, macOS, even from a technically savvy point of view, is unfriendly and beyond the user's power to fix.
alexeldeib 7y ago
Ubuntu 18 on carbon x1 extreme. Really smooth, until I do anything special. Never got external monitor working. Just had issues with my wifi yesterday that persisted through reboots and randomly worked after I booted back into windows and then linux again (dual boot). Lost hours of my life trying to get any combination of browser + smartcard reader to work with two different card readers. Sleep/Hibernate still don't work properly all the time. Sometimes my laptop decides to do the right thing, and I pray it doesn't undo itself and drain the battery in my backpack.
nwallin 7y ago
The hardware/driver situation is unambiguously better on Linux than it is on Windows. I've had ten times as many problems on Windows over the past ten years or so than I've had on Linux. (never been a serious user of OSX, although I imagine it's better than the situation on either Windows or Linux because Apple controls both the hardware and software) The problem people run into is that they fall into one of two shitty extremes. You either dive into the deep end and try to configure your own kernel and forget something. (Common in Gentoo circles) Or you go with Debian stable or RHEL and their kernel is two years old and they don't have drivers for the latest generation of graphics drivers because of course they don't. Just install Ubuntu like a normal person and you'll be fine. Problems with WiFi, trackpads, and hibernation haven't been a problem since like 2010 or so. I get 11 hours battery life on my XPS 13 9360 which advertised 9 hours battery life when it was new in 2016. > people say it works flawlessly - except for [insert issue here] This is a thread about how OSX works flawlessly except for [insert issue here]. And as it happens there are a pile of issues this time around. If you have a house that doesn't have stones thrown through its glass walls (besides TempleOS) I'd love to hear about it.

dddddaviddddd 7y ago

Similar motivations led to FreeBSD being my main OS, even fewer differences between all the Unix utilities.

MisterOctober 7y ago
Yep! I dig FreeBSD also, and strongly considered it especially for that reason -- just ended up going with Linux because I had a little more experience with it [having remotely used / administered linux servers &etc]
IggleSniggle 7y ago
I tried and failed to get going with OpenBSD. I want to slowly dip my toes into the water of a BSD. Is there a way to have a turn-key system that I can immediately start working on as I do on macOS, and gradually become more familiar with the OS? I guess what I’m saying is, there are systems that you can buy where the manufacturer has preinstalled Ubuntu and you have a high expectation of the hardware getting out of the way. I want that for FreeBSD or OpenBSD?

bproven 7y ago

I agree. And I just did the opposite. Been using Fedora for a year or so on an X1 Carbon and switched to having to use a new 2019 macbook pro for work. I had fond memories of macs when I last used them 6 years ago but today....wow. Not that great an of an experience. At this point for work (eng, devops/sre etc) I'd rather have Linux and I really wish I could use my carbon X1. :( I see no real adv to dealing with the mac platform today if what you want is a "unix" env. On the Linux of today, the minor annoyances are worth it - and they really are very minor on good hardware and a mainstream distro like Fedora or Ubuntu. Plus you get the tooling on the platform it was developed for - real docker, real pkg mgmt, etc. Don't get me wrong, there are still some nice things in macos and the hardware (yes the trackpad is nice), but to me they really are not compelling enough args now - at least for me. Now if only we could get a few of these minor annoyances fixed in the Linux desktop (e.g. Gnome) then I think it might really be the "year of Linux on the desktop" ;)

MisterOctober 7y ago
Spot on re : tooling -- likewise, I too gave up on Gnome early on, and also dislike KDE [too heavy] -- a friend turned me on to LXDE and it's been smooth sailing since
- dTal 7y ago
  If you haven't tried KDE Plasma in the last year or two, it's worth revisiting. I tentatively tried KDE 4.x back when it was the hot thing, and was disgusted by how it seemed to bring even a top-spec gaming desktop to its knees. Now I run Plasma 5 on my laptop (on Void Linux - I feel that package maintainers make a big difference here), and it's far and away the best desktop experience I've ever had. I've finally recovered that sense I always got from the Windows 95 shell, that's been missing in every desktop environment until now - that sense of "wow, they've really thought this through".
  - MisterOctober 7y ago
    Thanks for the tip; I'll check it out!

tracker1 7y ago

Just don't buy hardware that is too new. X570 platform and rx5700xt, and issues a plenty. Not to mention absolutely abysmal RGB support from hardware vendors.

rapind 7y ago

Literally all I use on a daily basis for the past 5+ years is: - Terminal of some sort - Browser (Chrome, Chromium, Firefox) Really just want a stable OS that stays out of my way, and never pushes shiny new features, only performance and security patches. But the responsiveness of browsers on linux turns me off every time I try to switch (feels sluggish). Also, I like the MacBook hardware, battery, aesthetic. Just been falling out of love with the OS for the last few years as they seem to be semi-combining it with iOS. Due for an upgrade and have been eyeing the latest MBA... but the OS is getting super annoying.

IggleSniggle 7y ago
I’m in a similar boat. I keep really wanting to like Linux; I give it a try, and then get annoyed that for some reason my terminal process is causing my browser UI to lock, or some such nonsense. Sometimes it’s just that there’s no dictator keeping all the keyboard shortcuts relatively consistent between applications. Then I’ll fantasize for a little bit about OpenBSD or FreeBSD, sigh, and go back to using macOS. I like futzing around with my operating system, but I expect my changes to make things overall worse for the general user, because I have weird preferences. The OS should not be doing the weird preferences. Sometimes I wonder about Linux users who say you can’t customize macOS. In my experience, it’s a lot of the same kinds of customization potential and rooting around in the system...updating the OS may totally mess up your configuration, but the same is true of updates in the Linux or BSD world.