6 ms·

There are a number of interesting use cases for PWAs, but part of Apple's fear is (potentially) many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Sto

by mehhh 7y ago

There are a number of interesting use cases for PWAs, but part of Apple's fear is (potentially) many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely. Apple also loses all code auditing and screening, meaning they can't ban GPL licensed PWAs like they ban alternative Linphone builds (as they are GPLv2), Signal Private Messenger builds (GPLv3) and only the official developer can build and submit these apps to the app store. Apple's GPL ban also effiectively mandates these apps having broad CLAs to ensure they can relicense the code for use in the Apple App Store. Edit: removed bonus apostrophe

frenchyatwork 7y ago
> many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely This was also the music industy's fear of digital data about 20-30 years ago.
- mehhh 7y ago
  The business model is outdated, Safari purposefully being a laggard with no alternatives on iOS will eventually bite Apple in the butt, it is just a question of when. Both the Music industry and Apple seek to maintain their control and thus their cash cows, but whether that will continue to work out for Apple remains to be seen...
  - riffraff 7y ago
    > The business model is outdated And what is it's replacement? It seems in app purchases are what keeps up a large part of mobile apps. iTunes changed the music business, but I have not noticed a similar change for mobile apps, web or not.
    - mehhh 7y ago
      SaaS and Entertainment as a service are the replacements, hence Apple Music and their new streaming service. This is also why AT&T, Verizon, Sinclair and Comcast have spent the last half decade buying media companies.
    - thenewnewguy 7y ago
      Why does there need to be a replacement? Apple already sells the hardware and their software (iOS and the preinstalled apps) and makes money off of that. If I make my app available via my website as a PWA, and all the hosting costs are my own, and don't use any of the app store's services, why does Apple deserve a share of the in app (in PWA?) purchases?
curt15 7y ago
What interest would Apple have in banning GPL-licensed web apps?
- mehhh 7y ago
  Of that I am not certain, but Apple has banned VLC and many other apps, and continues to ban any GPL code from the app store: https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance
  - irrational 7y ago
    I've used VLC on Apple products (phone, tablet, laptop) for years. I can't remember a time it wasn't available. Do you mean some VLC other than the video/media playing application?
    - mehhh 7y ago
      VLC had to relicense to LGPL to make that happen: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player#History
  - rrix2 7y ago
    They do that to "protect" their DRM and application support libraries from GPL virality which wouldn't be a problem with PWAs
    - api 7y ago
      GPL virality does not apply backward from app to platform. There are loads of GPL apps on Windows and on Mac outside the app store.
  - torpidor 7y ago
    VLC was removed because a VLC developer (copyrightholder) asked them to. Specifically, they alleged apple did not have the rights to distribute VLC unless they also allowed users to modify / recompile the software. There is a way for end users to modify their software now, but I don’t know if it would satisfy that developer. VLC relicensed to make clear they don’t require distributors to do this.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
saagarjha 7y ago
I’ve been looking at the App Store Guidelines recently and I don’t see much in them that seems to block GPL specifically. Maybe it’s OK now?
- mehhh 7y ago
  If you have citations of GPLv2 or GPLv3 apps that are in the App Store, I would be highly interested. As far as I can discern, Linphone is provided in the App Store under a proprietary license, VLC had to relicense as LGPL, and GNU Go is still not on the App Store.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    I don’t think anyone’s tried it, because it was certainly not allowed a couple of years ago. But the language that the FSF used to point to is no longer there, so I’d like to hope that it might be possible today.
  - dwaite 7y ago
    My understanding is that Apple doesn't ban GPLvX code - that doesn't mean other people won't write Apple and ask the app to be removed, claiming the app developer did not have proper copyright license.
  - dwaite 7y ago
    VLC-iOS is licensed GPLv2. https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc-ios/#license https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc-ios/#license
    - mehhh 7y ago
      The App store version is almost certainly using MPLv2, which is a file based copyleft license. Much weaker than GPLv2.
- colejohnson66 7y ago
  It’s not so much that it’s banned; it’s that because the GPLv3 allows users to modify their software and Apple doesn’t without their developer licenses, you can’t give the user all the freedoms the license provides.
nicky0 7y ago
Apple hasn't banned GPL apps. It would be more accurate to say GPL bans Apple.

by mehhh 7y ago

frenchyatwork 7y ago

> many of their clients will migrate to PWA only, reducing App Store revenue severely This was also the music industy's fear of digital data about 20-30 years ago.

mehhh 7y ago
The business model is outdated, Safari purposefully being a laggard with no alternatives on iOS will eventually bite Apple in the butt, it is just a question of when. Both the Music industry and Apple seek to maintain their control and thus their cash cows, but whether that will continue to work out for Apple remains to be seen...
- riffraff 7y ago
  > The business model is outdated And what is it's replacement? It seems in app purchases are what keeps up a large part of mobile apps. iTunes changed the music business, but I have not noticed a similar change for mobile apps, web or not.
  - mehhh 7y ago
    SaaS and Entertainment as a service are the replacements, hence Apple Music and their new streaming service. This is also why AT&T, Verizon, Sinclair and Comcast have spent the last half decade buying media companies.
  - thenewnewguy 7y ago
    Why does there need to be a replacement? Apple already sells the hardware and their software (iOS and the preinstalled apps) and makes money off of that. If I make my app available via my website as a PWA, and all the hosting costs are my own, and don't use any of the app store's services, why does Apple deserve a share of the in app (in PWA?) purchases?

curt15 7y ago

What interest would Apple have in banning GPL-licensed web apps?

mehhh 7y ago
Of that I am not certain, but Apple has banned VLC and many other apps, and continues to ban any GPL code from the app store: https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance
- irrational 7y ago
  I've used VLC on Apple products (phone, tablet, laptop) for years. I can't remember a time it wasn't available. Do you mean some VLC other than the video/media playing application?
  - mehhh 7y ago
    VLC had to relicense to LGPL to make that happen: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player#History https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLC_media_player#History
- rrix2 7y ago
  They do that to "protect" their DRM and application support libraries from GPL virality which wouldn't be a problem with PWAs
  - api 7y ago
    GPL virality does not apply backward from app to platform. There are loads of GPL apps on Windows and on Mac outside the app store.
- torpidor 7y ago
  VLC was removed because a VLC developer (copyrightholder) asked them to. Specifically, they alleged apple did not have the rights to distribute VLC unless they also allowed users to modify / recompile the software. There is a way for end users to modify their software now, but I don’t know if it would satisfy that developer. VLC relicensed to make clear they don’t require distributors to do this.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

saagarjha 7y ago

I’ve been looking at the App Store Guidelines recently and I don’t see much in them that seems to block GPL specifically. Maybe it’s OK now?

mehhh 7y ago
If you have citations of GPLv2 or GPLv3 apps that are in the App Store, I would be highly interested. As far as I can discern, Linphone is provided in the App Store under a proprietary license, VLC had to relicense as LGPL, and GNU Go is still not on the App Store.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  I don’t think anyone’s tried it, because it was certainly not allowed a couple of years ago. But the language that the FSF used to point to is no longer there, so I’d like to hope that it might be possible today.
- dwaite 7y ago
  My understanding is that Apple doesn't ban GPLvX code - that doesn't mean other people won't write Apple and ask the app to be removed, claiming the app developer did not have proper copyright license.
- dwaite 7y ago
  VLC-iOS is licensed GPLv2. https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc-ios/#license https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc-ios/#license
  - mehhh 7y ago
    The App store version is almost certainly using MPLv2, which is a file based copyleft license. Much weaker than GPLv2.
colejohnson66 7y ago
It’s not so much that it’s banned; it’s that because the GPLv3 allows users to modify their software and Apple doesn’t without their developer licenses, you can’t give the user all the freedoms the license provides.

nicky0 7y ago

Apple hasn't banned GPL apps. It would be more accurate to say GPL bans Apple.