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UN Security Council Holds Closed Hearing on Turkey: Syria Update
- pleasecalllater 7y agoI may be wrong... Isn't it that according to the law, the refugees are allowed to get the shelter in the first country they manage to get to? In this case it's Turkey, right?
- dopamean 7y agoWhich law? EU law? Afaik Turkey isn't a member of the EU but might like to be depending on who you're talking to.
- ssh_wintermute 7y agoAfaik this law only applies to EU and Turkey isn't part of it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 7y agoThat's only in the EU/Schengen laws and refugees can pay smugglers to get them to their desired country of choice through EU's porous borders(I drive a lot through Europe and border checks are only along the main highways, side roads are completely unguarded). Nothing against helping refugees but EU and NATO should reconsider any further cooperation with Turkey.
- pleasecalllater 7y agoThanks. I thought it was some kind of international law at the UN level, not just the EU one.
- rossdavidh 7y agoEven within the EU (and Turkey is not part of the EU, which is the EU's fault, not TUrkey's), this rule has been bent a lot in recent years. Greece and Italy and other countries have been sending refugees north. Of course, the Mediterranean countries will regret this bad precedent once the hordes of Scandinavian refugees come down from the south, and Germany and France and Benelux expect them to take some of them. Oh, wait...
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago>Greece and Italy and other countries have been sending refugees north. They did that because they didn't have the resources to deal with that and when they asked the rich countries for help all they got was "sux to be you. sorry fam, you're on your own. lol"
- rossdavidh 7y agoTrue. But all of that would be pretty applicable to Turkey, as well.
- remarkEon 7y agoWhy is Turkey in NATO? At this point Their behavior is nothing but antagonistic at best and downright nefarious at worst.
- MeteOzturk 7y agoWhat makes you say this? Could you please elaborate
- ChuckNorris89 7y agoBecause decades ago during the early stages of the cold war, the US needed a place close to Russia to plant nukes and Eastern Europe was taken, so Turkey was the best option at the time. But now, with Eastern Europe and the Baltics part of NATO there are better options and Turkey's membership should be reviewed.
- pi-victor 7y agobecause: a) Turkey is the (almost literal) culture gate between Europe and the Middle East, this is in itself very valuable. b) Largest army in Europe. c) Erdogan still has to restrain himself because he has treaties with NATO allies. Otherwise we might get a second unhinged Putin. That would cause a real headache for the EU that tries to stop immigrants from reaching its borders by millions.
- ReptileMan 7y agoThe EU can always stop immigrants no matter the quantity if there is political will.
- remarkEon 7y ago>Turkey is the (almost literal) culture gate between Europe and the Middle East, this is in itself very valuable. If this were true why do ME refugees not want to stay there? >Largest army in Europe. Okay, but if they're more culturally similar to the ME, as your first point implies, than to e.g. Germany doesn't it become a little problematic for employing this army in NATO's current theater of operations? >Erdogan still has to restrain himself because he has treaties with NATO allies... This is a great argument for why entangling alliances with people who aren't really your friends or are too culturally distant to even pretend as much are a terrible, awful idea. I believe we fought a World War because of this once.
- norin 7y agoI believe it's an agreement between EU countries, but I could also be wrong. The EU is going to throw billions at Erdogan, because they the EU cannot agree on how to deal with refugees. another wave could tear the EU apart.
- ChuckNorris89 7y agoNothing against helping refugees but EU and NATO should cancel any further economical and military cooperation with Turkey ASAP until they have a more sane leader in charge.
- yalph 7y agoTell me your sane leaders in the “west”. Was it George Bush, David Cameron, Trump, Johnson who is it?
- ChuckNorris89 7y agoI'm in West-Central Europe, the ones taking in refugees. The people you mentioned are the ones creating them, so ask them.
- yalph 7y agoWhy dont you tell us about how sane your leader is?
- mclightning 7y agoSo, one of the countries which has increased Nazi/Ultra-nationalist votes in the recent years? pick any :D literally. Europe with the very small percentage of refugees taken in, per capita, has already went full on ultra nationalist, even in places like Sweden. So, we should be more fair to Turkey handling literally, not metaphorically, millions of refugees. It is easy to talk about humanitarian values, when you're outsourcing Turkey to do it for you.
- ChuckNorris89 7y agoI know right?! These damn European Nazis, giving refugees free food, free housing, free top medical care, free education out of their own taxes. Shame on them! /s Oh, you mean discrimination? I'm white, Eastern European living in Western Europe and if I'd have a biscuit for every time I have been discriminated here I'd be fat for life. And yet, I don't call everyone who doesn't like me a nazi.
- ericras 7y agoThat's not a very good threat. Diversity is Europe's strength and they will be welcome with open arms!
- Robotbeat 7y agoIndeed. It'd be nice to see a coordinated effort to welcome and resettle the refugees. A pro-active program that is a pan-ethnic, almost nationalistic to add these refugees to the EU economic and cultural might, with education on local customs and languages and other help in integration. Call the bluff.
- utf985 7y agoI can't tell if this is supposed to be sarcastic or just extremely naive wishful thinking. Could you provide at least one example of a successful such program?
- throwaway9980 7y agoAmerica.
- utf985 7y agoThis is a very bad example. America is a completely different story as it is a stitched up nation (for lack of better words) from it's very inception and the societal and cultural dynamics are very different from those in Europe. Please don't try to force American solutions to non-American problems. Furthermore, the US currently is a lot more xenophobic and less accepting of foreigners than Europe is. I'd even go as far as say that in my experience Americans in general tend to be more racist than Europeans as well. And let's not forget USA's far from spotless historical record of treatment of minorities and other groups deemed to be 'different'.
- Robotbeat 7y agoThere's no fundamental reason why America's ability to integrate cultures couldn't be replicated in Europe. It's just a cultural choice not to. There's not any excuse for it. Just like the current xenophobic attitudes among some in the US is a choice and was a choice in the past. None of this is excusable, none of it is inevitable. And I have little patience for "realists" who carry water for the idea that xenophobia is inevitable and unchangeable. And not that it matters to the discussion of whether it's inevitable or not, but Americans are more welcoming of immigrants: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/business/international/for-immigrants-america-is-still-more-welcoming-than-europe.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/business/international/fo... and have lower demonstrated racism than most of Europe: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...
- dadarepublic 7y agoWouldn't this work to the benefit of Putin-Erdogan interests? The refugee situation is one of the polarizing issues in EU/Brexit politics. The Turkey-Syrian conflict pushes a new wave to exacerbate internal polarization within the UK & EU - a side effect of the conflict but still furthers a broader agenda. Pretty crafty.
- zwieback 7y agoHow do Europeans feel about the Kurds these days? When I was growing up in Germany in the 70s and 80s they weren't super popular but I'm guessing with Turkey turning to fundamentalism the attitudes have changed?
- supahfly_remix 7y agoWhy would Germans have had an opinion at all on Kurds? Were there a number that immigrated there in the 70s or earlier?
- brosinante 7y agoThere's other reasons to have opinions about populations being systematically oppresssed besides them being immigrants (or refugees).
- supahfly_remix 7y agoOpinions derived from what? Personal experience? The media? History books?
- zwieback 7y agoMainly because there are so many Turkish workers in Germany and they were in-fighting with the Kurds way back when, some of it spilled over and there was some violence in Germany.
- supahfly_remix 7y agoI see, thanks for explaining.
- ardit33 7y agoHard working people, family oriented, mostly (but not all) muslim, they tend to be moderate about religion.... especially compared with the craziness that goes around them.... They got the short stick of the dividing of the area, and their lands were used as a 'loot' to divy up by the great powers... They ended up as a nation without a country. They have faced great persecution over times, even mass gassing (in Iraq by Sadam) They have every-right should form a their own country... and they have been a good ally to the US, but Trump is messing it up and just letting Erdogan have free rein the area....
- beefield 7y agoWhat EU should immediately do is to start building charter cities. Either on sparsely populated areas within EU or by making long term rental agreements outside EU. Or likely both. The rules of charter cities would be roughly as follows: - Anyone (literally anyone) would be welcome to move to charter city if they just want so. - EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, health care and tax authorities. - Everyone moving in is allowed and expected to work in the society. - All refugees coming to EU are directed to these charter cities. - Charter city citizenship does not mean access to EU. I am not saying that this would be a problem-free solution. I am saying that it is extremely important that we start to solve the problems that arise here. Because they are the problems we need to solve to take pressure away from the refugees to flood Europe. They are the problems we need to solve when suddenly there is an environmental catastrophe and there are suddenly a lot of people looking for a new place to live. They are the problems we need to solve to make the coungries still living under bad governments to improve their governance. And no, most people in the world would absolutely not move immediately to these cities. Most people actually want to live in their homes. Edit, small changes in looks.
- delfinom 7y ago>- EU guarantees funding for basic infrastructure like education, legal system, security, health care and tax authorities. So tell me, how does the EU magically drum up money for all of this?
- point78 7y agoMake the immigrants/refugees actually work when they get here. Something like up to 80% are on welfare and public housing etc. You don't work or go to school, you go back.
- lawlessone 7y agopretty much all of them want to work too. Many countries don't allow that though.
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- yalph 7y agoIts hilarious when citizens of “western” countries are happy with invading countries blowing up children to pieces and then expect other countries to bare the burden. Lay it off!!!
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoWhy do you bring this up? Because you think those things are wrong? Then they're wrong when Erdogan does them, too. Because you think that we think that those things are wrong? Then we think that they're wrong when Erdogan does them, too. I don't think that there's an argument you can make on these grounds that helps you very much...