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Great point! I bet the junk food group will still feel better (less depressed) than the group being left alone, unless they were somehow constantly being remind

Great point! I bet the junk food group will still feel better (less depressed) than the group being left alone, unless they were somehow constantly being reminded about the "bad quality" of the food they were eating. It's all about long-term vs short-term state of mind. And three weeks is just too short.

throwaway_law 7y ago
>t's all about long-term vs short-term state of mind. I think the point is the "state of mind" is a product of everything else going on in the body. It will be infinitely more difficult to have a positive state of mind while your body is contending with chronic inflammation and your unhealthy gut isn't producing serotonin. Your right 3 weeks isn't enough, but biomarkers can be dramatically improved in 3 weeks with change of diet, especially with respect to chronic inflammation.
- Merrill 7y ago
  They did a 3-month followup: >Of the 33 individuals who were able to be contacted, 7 (21.2%) said they had maintained the diet, 19 (57.6%) reported they had maintained some aspects of the diet and 7 (21.2%) reported they had not maintained the diet. There was no difference in depression outcomes between these 3 groups (chi-square >.05). They don't seem to have done the 3-month follow up with the control group.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    It's super tiny group anyway - the experiment is highly underpowered even if they did check control group. Most importantly it is not a cross design, and even that would need in excess of hundred patients to be meaningful. As is they can be measuring the effect of attention and any kind of change on depression, given some genetic, phenotypical or environmental susceptibilities incidentally found in their treatment group. Meaning the conclusion is not possible to generalize. These tiny studies, especially of low quality and poor design are an annoying waste of time and money.
- CreepGin 7y ago
  Argument can be made that the mind can change the body just as the body can change the mind. But yes, the notion that "state of mind is a product of everything else going on in the body" does make it easier for empirical studies.
nradov 7y ago
A blue cheese bacon cheeseburger isn't necessarily "junk food". It can actually be pretty nutritious, depending on the specific ingredients.
- jorvi 7y ago
  Its amazing how well the sugar industry has ingrained the 'fat is bad, mmkay?' attitude into society.
  - CreepGin 7y ago
    Actually I didn't carefully read the list of food the op proposed. I just assumed it made better sense for the op to list junk food. To me, junk food is any highly processed food. I have nothing against fat or glucose.
  - magic_beans 7y ago
    It's not the fat that makes a blue cheese burger terrible for you. It's the combination of animal fat with refined carbohydrates. Wrap that bad boy in a collard green and you've got yourself a healthy meal.
  - thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
    neither fats nor carbs are bad, as long as you get good quality fats and good quality carbs. The problem is people eat bad quality carbs (highly processed) and they eat way too much fat, especially saturated fat. The scientists from the early studies had it right that too much saturated fats are bad for you. that doesn't mean you need to get rid of all fats. It's not commonly known, but important to remember, there's fat already in fruits, veggies, whole grains already in the correct quantities. Having a few nuts and seeds is also fine. Just be careful with all the processed fats and meats/dairy: you really want to limit those.
    - lawnchair_larry 7y ago
      You’re saying one should especially limit meat? That’s definitely not the consensus among experts.

throwaway_law 7y ago

>t's all about long-term vs short-term state of mind. I think the point is the "state of mind" is a product of everything else going on in the body. It will be infinitely more difficult to have a positive state of mind while your body is contending with chronic inflammation and your unhealthy gut isn't producing serotonin. Your right 3 weeks isn't enough, but biomarkers can be dramatically improved in 3 weeks with change of diet, especially with respect to chronic inflammation.

Merrill 7y ago
They did a 3-month followup: >Of the 33 individuals who were able to be contacted, 7 (21.2%) said they had maintained the diet, 19 (57.6%) reported they had maintained some aspects of the diet and 7 (21.2%) reported they had not maintained the diet. There was no difference in depression outcomes between these 3 groups (chi-square >.05). They don't seem to have done the 3-month follow up with the control group.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  It's super tiny group anyway - the experiment is highly underpowered even if they did check control group. Most importantly it is not a cross design, and even that would need in excess of hundred patients to be meaningful. As is they can be measuring the effect of attention and any kind of change on depression, given some genetic, phenotypical or environmental susceptibilities incidentally found in their treatment group. Meaning the conclusion is not possible to generalize. These tiny studies, especially of low quality and poor design are an annoying waste of time and money.
CreepGin 7y ago
Argument can be made that the mind can change the body just as the body can change the mind. But yes, the notion that "state of mind is a product of everything else going on in the body" does make it easier for empirical studies.

nradov 7y ago

A blue cheese bacon cheeseburger isn't necessarily "junk food". It can actually be pretty nutritious, depending on the specific ingredients.

jorvi 7y ago
Its amazing how well the sugar industry has ingrained the 'fat is bad, mmkay?' attitude into society.
- CreepGin 7y ago
  Actually I didn't carefully read the list of food the op proposed. I just assumed it made better sense for the op to list junk food. To me, junk food is any highly processed food. I have nothing against fat or glucose.
- magic_beans 7y ago
  It's not the fat that makes a blue cheese burger terrible for you. It's the combination of animal fat with refined carbohydrates. Wrap that bad boy in a collard green and you've got yourself a healthy meal.
- thorwasdfasdf 7y ago
  neither fats nor carbs are bad, as long as you get good quality fats and good quality carbs. The problem is people eat bad quality carbs (highly processed) and they eat way too much fat, especially saturated fat. The scientists from the early studies had it right that too much saturated fats are bad for you. that doesn't mean you need to get rid of all fats. It's not commonly known, but important to remember, there's fat already in fruits, veggies, whole grains already in the correct quantities. Having a few nuts and seeds is also fine. Just be careful with all the processed fats and meats/dairy: you really want to limit those.
  - lawnchair_larry 7y ago
    You’re saying one should especially limit meat? That’s definitely not the consensus among experts.