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Vegetables have a ton more nutrients than meat, and in a better form for the human body. For example, iron in beans is much more easy to regulate by the body (t

by vfc1 7y ago

Vegetables have a ton more nutrients than meat, and in a better form for the human body. For example, iron in beans is much more easy to regulate by the body (to absorb only the necessary ideal amount, not less, not more) than iron on red meat. Excess heme iron on red meat is harder for the body to regulate absorptions and is linked to cancer. In general, there are no nutrients in meat that don't exist in an equivalent or better form in plants, that's where they come from after all. Including ALA, DHA (flax seeds for example), and many of the nutrients are made by the body itself. We are animals too, our body has all the same essential mechanisms to process plant foods as animals do. Of course, we can't eat grass like a cow, but fruits, vegetables, root vegetables, nuts and seeds all that we can digest easily.

noir_lord 7y ago
> In general, there are no nutrients in meat that don't exist in an equivalent or better form in plants, that's where they come from after all. There are certain amino acids the body can't make itself, meat and fish contain those in high levels getting them from plants is of course possible but a pure plant only diet without dairy and fish you have to be careful that you are eating the right mix to get all the amino acids.
- vfc1 7y ago
  > There are certain amino acids the body can't make itself This is a common myth, plants contain all the essential amino acids. A cows gut does not magically create essential amino acids, it takes them from plants, and so can we. There is no magical ingredient in animal products, they are completely optional for a healthy diet.
  - gamblor956 7y ago
    Cows get those eaas from grasses we can't eat.
  - noir_lord 7y ago
    I literally said “getting them from plants is of course possible”, my observation was a it’s easier to get the right amounts of the amino acids from a source that already did the balancing for you vs eating a wide range of plant matter rich in some and not others. Meat and eggs are complete proteins in and of themselves, as a single source they are complete in all the essential amino acids, plants aren’t so you have to be more careful to get a decent mix. I’ve no dog in this fight, I’m not a vegan or vegetarian but I also eat very little meat for medical reasons so I made sure I ate an increased range of plants to compensate.
dalore 7y ago
Vegetables have less nutrients than meat. They are also in a less bioavailable form, so not as easy absorb. The link to cancer is from association studies which have confounders. A big recent meta analysis of these studies have shown that the reduction in risk for not eating meat is not worth it. One can live on pure animal product alone and not need any supplements, yet one can't do the reverse. If you eat only plant food you must consume supplements. There are plenty of nutrients found in meat and not found in plants. B12 is the big supplement not found in plant foods, and the supplement was invented in 60s. So no true vegans could exist until then. Vegetarians existed, but they ate some animal products. Plants also have no Vitamin A, only carotenoids which is difficult for our bodies to convert to Vitamin A. The vitamin D found in plants is inferior to the vitamin D in meat. Most of us don't get enough sun for adequate vitamin D. Vitamin K2 is also severely lacking in plants. Heme iron is also only found in animal products. You need heme iron. For most people iron overload is not a worry, you need some genetic disposition to absorb extra iron. We can't eat grass like a cow, but we can eat that cow. You've made some claims without an examples. Can you give me an example of nutrients that are found in plants and not in animals? Also the definition of an "essential nutrient" is a nutrient that we can't synthesise ourselves in our bodies. So no we can't make any essential nutrient because that's the very definition of the phrase. https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/essential_nutrient.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/essential_nutrient.htm
- fyfy18 7y ago
  You can live on products of the cow, you don't need to eat the cow. There are plenty of religious groups that are strictly vegetarian, and people have been following those diets for hundreds or thousands of years. For example Jainism followers don't eat meat or fish, and certain vegetables, but do eat cheese and other dairy products.
  - dalore 7y ago
    Yes you can survive, and I did say people have lived off animal products. There are no vegans cultures from hundreds or thousands years ago. The vegetarians still had to consume animal products to get nutrients. You don't have to eat the cow, but it would be a waste to give it to the dogs when it dies. And you would thrive more if you did eat it.
sethammons 7y ago
Nit: b12 - until the late 90's (I think) when it was discovered how to be made in a lab, there were no non-animal sources of vitamin b12. Organs are also full of vitamins, but most people don't eat those.
- cageface 7y ago
  B12 is made by bacteria. We used to get more than enough from untreated water and soil on food we ate. Modern meat supplies are also supplemented.
- vfc1 7y ago
  B12 comes from bacteria in the dust, and is injected in factory farmed animals otherwise they would not have it and become sick due to conditions. Might as well getting it from contact with nature or by taking the supplement directly instead of taking second hand via a cow.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  > most people don't eat those. Most Americans don't think they eat organs, but they are a big component of most processed meat foods, like sausages. But offal consumption is prevalent in the rest of the world. Even in the US, you can find offal in many Mexican restaurants.
  - maw 7y ago
    But you can also find much that is good in Mexican restaur... oh, wait, you said offal, not awful.
- opportune 7y ago
  Liver is becoming popular again and will probably reach mainstream trendiness in the next few years. It’s full of micronutrients
nradov 7y ago
Most of us are probably getting more iron than we really need. Excess iron intake is a risk factor for heart attacks. https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20001025/too-much-iron-may-lead-to-heart-attack#1 https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20001025/too-much-i...

by vfc1 7y ago

noir_lord 7y ago

> In general, there are no nutrients in meat that don't exist in an equivalent or better form in plants, that's where they come from after all. There are certain amino acids the body can't make itself, meat and fish contain those in high levels getting them from plants is of course possible but a pure plant only diet without dairy and fish you have to be careful that you are eating the right mix to get all the amino acids.

vfc1 7y ago
> There are certain amino acids the body can't make itself This is a common myth, plants contain all the essential amino acids. A cows gut does not magically create essential amino acids, it takes them from plants, and so can we. There is no magical ingredient in animal products, they are completely optional for a healthy diet.
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Cows get those eaas from grasses we can't eat.
- noir_lord 7y ago
  I literally said “getting them from plants is of course possible”, my observation was a it’s easier to get the right amounts of the amino acids from a source that already did the balancing for you vs eating a wide range of plant matter rich in some and not others. Meat and eggs are complete proteins in and of themselves, as a single source they are complete in all the essential amino acids, plants aren’t so you have to be more careful to get a decent mix. I’ve no dog in this fight, I’m not a vegan or vegetarian but I also eat very little meat for medical reasons so I made sure I ate an increased range of plants to compensate.

dalore 7y ago

Vegetables have less nutrients than meat. They are also in a less bioavailable form, so not as easy absorb. The link to cancer is from association studies which have confounders. A big recent meta analysis of these studies have shown that the reduction in risk for not eating meat is not worth it. One can live on pure animal product alone and not need any supplements, yet one can't do the reverse. If you eat only plant food you must consume supplements. There are plenty of nutrients found in meat and not found in plants. B12 is the big supplement not found in plant foods, and the supplement was invented in 60s. So no true vegans could exist until then. Vegetarians existed, but they ate some animal products. Plants also have no Vitamin A, only carotenoids which is difficult for our bodies to convert to Vitamin A. The vitamin D found in plants is inferior to the vitamin D in meat. Most of us don't get enough sun for adequate vitamin D. Vitamin K2 is also severely lacking in plants. Heme iron is also only found in animal products. You need heme iron. For most people iron overload is not a worry, you need some genetic disposition to absorb extra iron. We can't eat grass like a cow, but we can eat that cow. You've made some claims without an examples. Can you give me an example of nutrients that are found in plants and not in animals? Also the definition of an "essential nutrient" is a nutrient that we can't synthesise ourselves in our bodies. So no we can't make any essential nutrient because that's the very definition of the phrase. https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/essential_nutrient.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/terms/essential_nutrient.htm

fyfy18 7y ago
You can live on products of the cow, you don't need to eat the cow. There are plenty of religious groups that are strictly vegetarian, and people have been following those diets for hundreds or thousands of years. For example Jainism followers don't eat meat or fish, and certain vegetables, but do eat cheese and other dairy products.
- dalore 7y ago
  Yes you can survive, and I did say people have lived off animal products. There are no vegans cultures from hundreds or thousands years ago. The vegetarians still had to consume animal products to get nutrients. You don't have to eat the cow, but it would be a waste to give it to the dogs when it dies. And you would thrive more if you did eat it.

sethammons 7y ago

Nit: b12 - until the late 90's (I think) when it was discovered how to be made in a lab, there were no non-animal sources of vitamin b12. Organs are also full of vitamins, but most people don't eat those.

cageface 7y ago
B12 is made by bacteria. We used to get more than enough from untreated water and soil on food we ate. Modern meat supplies are also supplemented.
vfc1 7y ago
B12 comes from bacteria in the dust, and is injected in factory farmed animals otherwise they would not have it and become sick due to conditions. Might as well getting it from contact with nature or by taking the supplement directly instead of taking second hand via a cow.
mywittyname 7y ago
> most people don't eat those. Most Americans don't think they eat organs, but they are a big component of most processed meat foods, like sausages. But offal consumption is prevalent in the rest of the world. Even in the US, you can find offal in many Mexican restaurants.
- maw 7y ago
  But you can also find much that is good in Mexican restaur... oh, wait, you said offal, not awful.
opportune 7y ago
Liver is becoming popular again and will probably reach mainstream trendiness in the next few years. It’s full of micronutrients

nradov 7y ago

Most of us are probably getting more iron than we really need. Excess iron intake is a risk factor for heart attacks. https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20001025/too-much-iron-may-lead-to-heart-attack#1 https://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20001025/too-much-i...