4 ms·

I find this whole discussion (including the above comment) surreal, given that we are talking about the country that used to be called "the land of the free" an

by jwr 7y ago

I find this whole discussion (including the above comment) surreal, given that we are talking about the country that used to be called "the land of the free" and that claims superiority over countries that restrict freedoms.

taneq 7y ago
The more I hear about the U.S. the less I want to go there, for any reason, ever. I'm sure the people are lovely but the government is scary.
- dangus 7y ago
  American Exceptionalism taught us that it's so much different than other places. In reality, it's not really any different than any other place, and the way the government treats citizens and non-citizens isn't much different than the way any other generally functioning country would. The only difference is that we have especially well-known patriotic freedom-based songs and sayings. You shouldn't be scared to come. As a non-citizen, I could be detained/searched if I travelled to France or Germany or any other Western European country for next to no reason and it would be legal there as well, wouldn't it? To be honest, the most rigorous part of the entry process in the USA compared to other countries is the customs agents that are out to prevent you from bringing in foreign agricultural products.
  - germanier 7y ago
    I can only speak about Germany. While some form of searching at the border is legal, the power of border police and customs agents are much more restricted than those of the US counterparts, especially when it comes to cases without adequate suspicion. Apart from legal questions, what matters more is how it's handled in practice.
- jen729w 7y ago
  Aussie/British here so YMMV if you’re from somewhere less white. Go to the States. It’s amazing. Almost none of what you read here actually happens. I’ve been a bunch of times in the last few years and the border people have been nothing but lovely. The countryside is amazing. The food is ridiculous. The people are extraordinary — and I’m a leftie who happily says that of the good folk of Alabama. We can’t wait to go back. Next road-trip will probably take us from Washington state to Chicago.
  - fernandotakai 7y ago
    while i agree (i absolutely love visiting the US, i travel there once a year at least), the problem is not the country itself. it's getting there. it's getting a visa, being harassed by CBP officers and TSA.
x220 7y ago
Americans have freedom on paper but they don't have any freedoms that matter. They have "freedom of speech" in the technical sense, but that freedom goes away once they get an audience that matters.
- geggam 7y ago
  I wonder if the folks who downvote this have traveled much ? BTW you have to exercise that free speech in the specified zone. Cant be out there talking all willy nilly
  - x220 7y ago
    The same Americans who talk about how Europeans don't have "real freedom of speech" get mad when their favorite political commentator gets censored on Youtube or Facebook or get mad when a riot keeps them from seeing someone give a speech. The end result is that Americans don't have real freedom of speech.
adventured 7y ago
The hypocrisy you're referring to applies to practically every liberal nation you can name. You're merely selectively, conveniently focusing on the US and narrowly focusing on this issue while ignoring other types of very common border restrictions in "free" countries that like to lecture on human rights. Shall we discuss border security and immigration (which is a type of border security restriction) policies of Canada, Australia, Japan or the Scandinavian nations - to name a few? Nearly every liberal democracy is blatantly, intentionally regressive at the border, typically in several different ways.
- 0ld 7y ago
  I've been crossing the EU border (as a non-EU national) regularly (like once in 1-2 months) since around 15 years. And I've never ever seen anything even remotely resembling the pure insanity that appear to be going on on the US border according to the comments here. I really hope I will never have to go the US to experience that on myself
  - calcifer 7y ago
    Hear hear. No EU border agent ever asked if I had a phone, let alone search it.

by jwr 7y ago

taneq 7y ago

The more I hear about the U.S. the less I want to go there, for any reason, ever. I'm sure the people are lovely but the government is scary.

dangus 7y ago
American Exceptionalism taught us that it's so much different than other places. In reality, it's not really any different than any other place, and the way the government treats citizens and non-citizens isn't much different than the way any other generally functioning country would. The only difference is that we have especially well-known patriotic freedom-based songs and sayings. You shouldn't be scared to come. As a non-citizen, I could be detained/searched if I travelled to France or Germany or any other Western European country for next to no reason and it would be legal there as well, wouldn't it? To be honest, the most rigorous part of the entry process in the USA compared to other countries is the customs agents that are out to prevent you from bringing in foreign agricultural products.
- germanier 7y ago
  I can only speak about Germany. While some form of searching at the border is legal, the power of border police and customs agents are much more restricted than those of the US counterparts, especially when it comes to cases without adequate suspicion. Apart from legal questions, what matters more is how it's handled in practice.
jen729w 7y ago
Aussie/British here so YMMV if you’re from somewhere less white. Go to the States. It’s amazing. Almost none of what you read here actually happens. I’ve been a bunch of times in the last few years and the border people have been nothing but lovely. The countryside is amazing. The food is ridiculous. The people are extraordinary — and I’m a leftie who happily says that of the good folk of Alabama. We can’t wait to go back. Next road-trip will probably take us from Washington state to Chicago.
- fernandotakai 7y ago
  while i agree (i absolutely love visiting the US, i travel there once a year at least), the problem is not the country itself. it's getting there. it's getting a visa, being harassed by CBP officers and TSA.

x220 7y ago

Americans have freedom on paper but they don't have any freedoms that matter. They have "freedom of speech" in the technical sense, but that freedom goes away once they get an audience that matters.

geggam 7y ago
I wonder if the folks who downvote this have traveled much ? BTW you have to exercise that free speech in the specified zone. Cant be out there talking all willy nilly
- x220 7y ago
  The same Americans who talk about how Europeans don't have "real freedom of speech" get mad when their favorite political commentator gets censored on Youtube or Facebook or get mad when a riot keeps them from seeing someone give a speech. The end result is that Americans don't have real freedom of speech.

adventured 7y ago

The hypocrisy you're referring to applies to practically every liberal nation you can name. You're merely selectively, conveniently focusing on the US and narrowly focusing on this issue while ignoring other types of very common border restrictions in "free" countries that like to lecture on human rights. Shall we discuss border security and immigration (which is a type of border security restriction) policies of Canada, Australia, Japan or the Scandinavian nations - to name a few? Nearly every liberal democracy is blatantly, intentionally regressive at the border, typically in several different ways.

0ld 7y ago
I've been crossing the EU border (as a non-EU national) regularly (like once in 1-2 months) since around 15 years. And I've never ever seen anything even remotely resembling the pure insanity that appear to be going on on the US border according to the comments here. I really hope I will never have to go the US to experience that on myself
- calcifer 7y ago
  Hear hear. No EU border agent ever asked if I had a phone, let alone search it.