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What other countries USA is friend with has concentration camps? Turkey and Saudi Arabia have problems but I believe human rights situation is better there than

What other countries USA is friend with has concentration camps? Turkey and Saudi Arabia have problems but I believe human rights situation is better there than in China. What else?

knzhou 7y ago
The USA itself has by far the highest incarceration rates of any developed country, over 5x that of China. In certain demographics this rate is as high as 1/3. By the numbers this is more than what the Uighers experience in China, and e.g. Europeans can and do criticize the USA relentlessly for it. If you're wondering how people in China justify the government's treatment of the Uighers, the answer isn't that they have different moral instincts than you. They justify it to themselves in the exact same way you justify America's incarceration rate to yourself. (If you're thinking that it's different, because what they're doing just feels dystopian and evil, while we're just doing the best we can, obviously realize that this is pure tribal bias. Others might have the reverse associations.) Of course, what I am doing is textbook whataboutism. But that is the correct response to a claim that some foreign country is uniquely evil.
- spectramax 7y ago
  The Uighers do not have access to due process and a trial. I find that a glaring, obtuse omission in your argument besides doing whataboutism. It is a terrible situation in the US in regards to incarceration and our politicians (Bernie Sanders for example) openly, freely, fearlessly oppose it. I urge you to take a deeper look into China's state powers and complete lack of liberty, due process or law (yes, there are courts and written law in China but they do not appease the dissidents of the CCP's agenda). What you're comparing is a regional regression of a particular demographic or culture. Imagine locking down 1.4 million people of Seattle metropolitan region because they worship no god and enjoy particular rituals, sending them all to re-education camps and then building HUGE projects to house them - all sponsored by the Federal government with strict orders from Washington, and the entire operation carried out by military and special police forces, setting up checkpoints in Seattle. Oh and I forgot that the threat is simply to sell your organs if you squeak and then kill you.
  - knzhou 7y ago
    You're completely right that there's a big difference in how much control the government has over the legal system. I'm just trying to communicate how the end result looks similarly justifiable to the people in each country. After all, that end result is what we are upset about. > What you're comparing is a regional regression of a particular demographic or culture. Imagine locking down 1.4 million people of Seattle metropolitan region because they worship no god and enjoy particular rituals You're not really engaging with the example -- you substituted it for another. I'm sure if you proposed locking up 1.4 million people from Shanghai for no good reason, the average Chinese citizen would react in horror, while they would dismiss what is actually happening exactly as you did, as a "regional regression of a particular demographic".
    - spectramax 7y ago
      My bad, I see the problem with the Seattle analogy. Let's just say locking down people of Alaska (remote, has some culture). It would still be equally outrageous.
  - geowwy 7y ago
    Due process and a trial has not done Americans any good because the laws are unjust.
- daliusd 7y ago
  Problem with your answer is that I'm not from USA. My question was about other countries not USA. Lastly, two wrongs don't make right.
stonith 7y ago
Australia has one on Nauru despite repeated condemnation from various international bodies.
- ajxs 7y ago
  Referring to Australia's offshore immigration detention facilities as "concentration camps" in this context is incredibly misleading. There is absolutely no fair comparison to be made between Australia's detention of illegal immigrants in these facilities and China's human rights abuses. Regardless of your views on the human rights implications of Australia's mandatory detention policies, labelling them as such is dishonest.
- valtism 7y ago
  Nauru isn't anywhere close to that. According to a close friend who visited, it's not really that bad of a place. I think that there has been a lot of political play around it to drum it up as worse than it is.
  - oefrha 7y ago
    Interesting perspective. Do you also have a close friend who visited Chinese concentration camps for comparison? Why do you think one is drummed up by political play while the other is not?
    - point78 7y ago
      At least we can view the detention centers on AU without a satellite....that says more than enough
colordrops 7y ago
What about Guantanamo Bay?
- daliusd 7y ago
  It is USA. I'm asking about other countries.

What other countries USA is friend with has concentration camps? Turkey and Saudi Arabia have problems but I believe human rights situation is better there than in China. What else?

knzhou 7y ago

The USA itself has by far the highest incarceration rates of any developed country, over 5x that of China. In certain demographics this rate is as high as 1/3. By the numbers this is more than what the Uighers experience in China, and e.g. Europeans can and do criticize the USA relentlessly for it. If you're wondering how people in China justify the government's treatment of the Uighers, the answer isn't that they have different moral instincts than you. They justify it to themselves in the exact same way you justify America's incarceration rate to yourself. (If you're thinking that it's different, because what they're doing just feels dystopian and evil, while we're just doing the best we can, obviously realize that this is pure tribal bias. Others might have the reverse associations.) Of course, what I am doing is textbook whataboutism. But that is the correct response to a claim that some foreign country is uniquely evil.

spectramax 7y ago
The Uighers do not have access to due process and a trial. I find that a glaring, obtuse omission in your argument besides doing whataboutism. It is a terrible situation in the US in regards to incarceration and our politicians (Bernie Sanders for example) openly, freely, fearlessly oppose it. I urge you to take a deeper look into China's state powers and complete lack of liberty, due process or law (yes, there are courts and written law in China but they do not appease the dissidents of the CCP's agenda). What you're comparing is a regional regression of a particular demographic or culture. Imagine locking down 1.4 million people of Seattle metropolitan region because they worship no god and enjoy particular rituals, sending them all to re-education camps and then building HUGE projects to house them - all sponsored by the Federal government with strict orders from Washington, and the entire operation carried out by military and special police forces, setting up checkpoints in Seattle. Oh and I forgot that the threat is simply to sell your organs if you squeak and then kill you.
- knzhou 7y ago
  You're completely right that there's a big difference in how much control the government has over the legal system. I'm just trying to communicate how the end result looks similarly justifiable to the people in each country. After all, that end result is what we are upset about. > What you're comparing is a regional regression of a particular demographic or culture. Imagine locking down 1.4 million people of Seattle metropolitan region because they worship no god and enjoy particular rituals You're not really engaging with the example -- you substituted it for another. I'm sure if you proposed locking up 1.4 million people from Shanghai for no good reason, the average Chinese citizen would react in horror, while they would dismiss what is actually happening exactly as you did, as a "regional regression of a particular demographic".
  - spectramax 7y ago
    My bad, I see the problem with the Seattle analogy. Let's just say locking down people of Alaska (remote, has some culture). It would still be equally outrageous.
- geowwy 7y ago
  Due process and a trial has not done Americans any good because the laws are unjust.
daliusd 7y ago
Problem with your answer is that I'm not from USA. My question was about other countries not USA. Lastly, two wrongs don't make right.

stonith 7y ago

Australia has one on Nauru despite repeated condemnation from various international bodies.

ajxs 7y ago
Referring to Australia's offshore immigration detention facilities as "concentration camps" in this context is incredibly misleading. There is absolutely no fair comparison to be made between Australia's detention of illegal immigrants in these facilities and China's human rights abuses. Regardless of your views on the human rights implications of Australia's mandatory detention policies, labelling them as such is dishonest.
valtism 7y ago
Nauru isn't anywhere close to that. According to a close friend who visited, it's not really that bad of a place. I think that there has been a lot of political play around it to drum it up as worse than it is.
- oefrha 7y ago
  Interesting perspective. Do you also have a close friend who visited Chinese concentration camps for comparison? Why do you think one is drummed up by political play while the other is not?
  - point78 7y ago
    At least we can view the detention centers on AU without a satellite....that says more than enough

colordrops 7y ago

What about Guantanamo Bay?

daliusd 7y ago
It is USA. I'm asking about other countries.