14 ms·
Newsrooms, let’s talk about G Suite
- ucaetano 7y agoWow, that's a surprisingly fair and neutral write up, really good work!
- whalabi 7y agoOk I'm a little distressed by this tweet the article linked: https://twitter.com/Rachael_Bale/status/925352538110595072 https://twitter.com/Rachael_Bale/status/925352538110595072
- danso 7y agoDoes anyone know if this situation would be partially mitigated if you've enabled online access to GDrive, i.e. syncing files to your hard drive?
- chery 7y agoI rely on Google so much. One glitch in Google code can cost me a lot.
- tantalor 7y agoYou can hedge that risk with periodic backups.
- blfr 7y agoYou can even set periodic backups in Google Takeout now.
- fauigerzigerk 7y agoYes but you can't set your own schedule and it's not incremental. On the positive side, you can now directly export to OneDrive, DropBox or Box.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- mc32 7y agoIt it looks like it was a bad code push and it was being reverted? So, I mean, those things happen for non nefarious reasons. So unless people know it was for the actual text of the doc, I think it’s likely just an unlucky glitch.
- nvrspyx 7y agoEven if it was bad code that falsely flagged the Docs, wouldn't that still imply that Google are parsing Docs in some manner if they're able to be flagged for ToS violations in general? I got the impression that Google reading your documents was the source of distress in the parent comment.
- mc32 7y agoNo, that may be a generic message wrongly assigned to the observed behavior.
- nvrspyx 7y agoI get it now. It may have (falsely) determined a violation from their behavior/use of Docs instead of the actual content of those documents. Nevermind my original comment then. That makes sense.
- duskwuff 7y ago> ...wouldn't that still imply that Google are parsing Docs in some manner if they're able to be flagged for ToS violations in general? Public documents in Google Docs are used as targets for spam or phishing campaigns pretty frequently. (The latter is usually by way of Google Forms, which can be used to drop content into a spreadsheet.) Google needs some way to allow this behavior to be flagged, and ideally to recognize it before it gets abused. Private documents are another matter. Even there, though, I imagine they are obliged to scan some content, e.g. checking images against child pornography databases.
- treypitt 7y ago
- foota 7y agoHa, journalists would be pretty high on a list of people to avoid annoying with your product errors.
- karambir 7y agoI believe we should also support more open-source software here. Google Docs are in no doubt best and provide a lot of good functionality to its users. Even Office(365?) is getting good. LibreOffice is developing an online version[1] which is at alpha stage I would say. I recently installed Collabora Online(a packaged version of LibreOffice Online) on my Nextcloud server and it is working fine for basic document editing. And with Nextcloud, I am also able to get comments and chat on the side[2]. Maybe they can integrate this feature more into documents/files. 1. https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-online/ https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-online/ 2. https://nextcloud.com/blog/nextcloud-introduces-collaborative-rich-text-editor/ https://nextcloud.com/blog/nextcloud-introduces-collaborativ...
- inetknght 7y ago> I believe we should also support more open-source software here. Yes, I concur. > Google Docs are in no doubt best and provide a lot of good functionality to its users. Even Office(365?) is getting good. LibreOffice is developing an online version[1] which is at alpha stage I would say. I'm having trouble understanding how you think Google Docs or Office 365 are open source.
- karambir 7y agoI am sorry I was not clear with the language. I was trying to put current market players(opensource or not) and compare them with an open source initiative i.e. LibreOffice Online.
- lhoff 7y agoHave you tried OnlyOffice? Integrates with nextcloud as well. Licenced unter AGPLv3 and works really good. I used Collabora before but i prefere OnlyOffice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnlyOffice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/OnlyOffice
- karambir 7y agoThis is great. I looked at it previously but leaned towards LibreOffice for my case. I will try it.
- GauntletWizard 7y agoI used to be an SRE on Google Enterprise - I ran the Admin panel you see in the article, and worked on Docs infrastructure. I endorse this message. It's important that people understand how the technology they use works. Yes, Google Docs are stored in a format legible to the company. There were tool such that they could be included in legal holds or subpoenas. There were no access tools that Google or Googlers could read those documents directly, but they absolutely were included in legal discovery tooling. You should be aware of that fact, just as you should be aware that your enterprise can read (and include in response to subpoenas, etc) your e-mail. Since the article mentioned TOS Violations as a potential threat vector, I'll also share an interesting anecdote: Journalists using Google Docs were one of our worst headaches. It was not uncommon for journalists to put Google Docs links, or internal links, into stories - It got used as an image sharing service a lot. At one point, there was insufficient (read: No) caching on some of the Google Spreadsheets "Graph" features... and the NY Times embedded an image generated by such into their homepage. The mechanism that prevented that from taking down all of google docs was the same one that prevents abuse. Documents with poor sharing properties are likely to trigger anti-abuse mechanisms, and get that TOS message in response. It's not personal, and quite frankly - I'm in agreement with the message, because while not intentional, it is abuse.
- aaomidi 7y agoThis sounds like you guys aren't doing your job correctly. You're literally serving a text file with a browser based editor, this doesn't need tremendous amounts of caching. If you can't handle the traffic a news article might bring to a google docs document, then you probably shouldn't be pushing for google docs. I can't believe I'm having to say this to someone who used to be an SRE at Google, but this is literally YOUR problem to solve.
- joshuamorton 7y ago> You're literally serving a text file with a browser based editor, this doesn't need tremendous amounts of caching. Serving anything dynamic at thousands of QPS requires a lot of caching.
- felco 7y agoFirst post here, hi! I would say that a good way to ditch Google from your information is to use PGP.
- TurkishPoptart 7y agoCan you elaborate on how to do this? Thanks.
- sixstringtheory 7y agoCheck out GPGTools [0]... it integrates with macOS Mail.app to send encrypted and/or cryptographically signed emails. They claim that it "integrates the power of GPG into almost any application via the macOS Services context menu. It allows you to encrypt/decrypt, sign/verify text selections, files, folders and much more." [0]: https://gpgtools.org https://gpgtools.org
- OrgNet 7y agoe2e encryption takes google mostly out of the loop (except for the "meta" data)
- noodlesUK 7y agoI’m sure lots of people reading HN know of plenty of providers for email etc that are not related to google, but what about all the other services? What are alternatives to things like google docs? SMB shares and suchlike can work as a replacement for google drive, but I don’t know of anyone (other than keybase) who has a strong security model for anything like that.
- ocdtrekkie 7y agoI use Sandstorm.io with Etherpad, EtherCalc, and Wekan. It doesn't get a lot of active development right now but it's security model is pretty solid.
- jeffk_teh_haxor 7y agoSelf-hosted, I'm assuming? Their hosted service is shutting down. https://sandstorm.io/news/ https://sandstorm.io/news/
- ocdtrekkie 7y agoI'm actually currently on that hosted service, but will be finding time to migrate soon!
- lewisjoe 7y agohttps://www.zoho.com/writer https://www.zoho.com/writer - no content scanning, no ads. Just pay and use. Free for personal use.
- joshuamorton 7y ago[I'm a googler, who works in Apps, but not directly on anything relevant here]. This article mentions Access Transparency > By default, G Suite Enterprise enables a feature called Access Transparency, which allows administrators to see who has looked at each document within the organization. But gets it a bit wrong. Access Transparency is a log of any Google employees who have looked at stuff in your domain. From the official site "Access Transparency logs provide information about actions of Google staff when they access your data."[1]. Which is a nice way of knowing that Google employees aren't randomly snooping on your files. [1]: https://support.google.com/a/answer/9230979?hl=en https://support.google.com/a/answer/9230979?hl=en
- judge2020 7y agoOnly downside over a self-hosted solution is that legal requests won't always create an entry in access transparency. https://support.google.com/a/answer/9230474?hl=en https://support.google.com/a/answer/9230474?hl=en
- dmix 7y agoThe point of eavesdropping would largely be defeated if the person can find out, so I get why it's a part of law. The thing about NSLs is the target often never finds out because there was no public investigations or courts involved. I remember reading a particular drug investigation had over 50 wiretaps including the mother's and sister's (of the targets) smartphones because they sometimes used their phones for business, which is pretty common in poorer households. I've always been curious if they found out afterwards. In The Wire they had a scene where they would pause the audio if it's only someone else talking after x amount of time. But I highly doubt every single text, picture, and message sent to the person isn't being seen by at least one person.
- kuschku 7y agoIf you selfhost, you'll definitely find out if you get a NSL. That's the advantage.
- craze3 7y agoI urge you guys to checkout some of the decentralized alternatives that are built on Ethereum or Lightning network. Here are some decentralized apps from Blockstack's App Mining program that have been gaining a lot of traction lately: - Dmail (Gmail alternative): https://www.dmail.online/ https://www.dmail.online/ - Recall (Google Photos alternative): https://app.recall.photos/ https://app.recall.photos/ - Arcane Office (Google Docs/Office alternative): https://docs.arcaneoffice.com/ https://docs.arcaneoffice.com/ - Forms.id (Google Forms alternative): https://forms.id/ https://forms.id/ - Arcane Maps (Google Maps alternative): https://arcanemaps.com/ https://arcanemaps.com/
- sixtypoundhound 7y agoDoesn't this sound like a really good reason to work with a smaller private provider? Don't do sensitive work on free services...
- sixtypoundhound 7y agoActually, a smaller provider with effective canary policies....
- Klonoar 7y agoG Suite isn't free.
- rootw0rm 7y agoMy business got grandfathered into G Suite for free since I used it from beta.
- nillium 7y agoIf there are any journalists/news directors/managers on this thread, Nillium is building a system to manage reporting information/logistics for newsrooms. Basically everything for a story up to the point its ready for a CMS. It will provide way better organizing and archiving within individual organizations, and across affiliated newsrooms. We're still working through our security and encryption protocols, but would love to hear from you what your concerns may be - from the incredibly sensitive investigations to run of the mill police blotter stories. I'd love to talk to you - jared AT nillium DOT com
- aVx1uyD5pYWW 7y ago>For a fun example, administrators have the choice to keep draft copies of emails, even after the email is removed from the draft folder. These drafts can even be ported into Vault minute by minute. In other words, administrators have the ability to read your draft emails live, or replay them after the fact. wow.
- ridaj 7y agoI believe a newsroom located in the US can just as well be compelled by a court of law to hand over information on systems that it controls. Regardless of where the data is stored physically or whether it's self-hosted.
- loteck 7y agoNewsrooms, let's also talk about threat models, and which of these G Suite concerns apply to your actual threats.
- Jonnyelm87 7y agoI urge you guys to checkout some of the decentralized alternatives that are built on Ethereum or Lightning network. Here are some decentralized apps from Blockstack's App Mining program that have been gaining a lot of traction lately: - Dmail (Gmail alternative): https://www.dmail.online/ https://www.dmail.online/ - Recall (Google Photos alternative): https://app.recall.photos/ https://app.recall.photos/ - Arcane Office (Google Docs/Office alternative): https://docs.arcaneoffice.com/ https://docs.arcaneoffice.com/ - Forms.id (Google Forms alternative): https://forms.id/ https://forms.id/ - Arcane Maps (Google Maps alternative): https://arcanemaps.com/ https://arcanemaps.com/
- Hacker01 7y agoThat's great, but if it's only true until it isn't. The moments when that idea is false (however rare) are the life altering, permanent moments that result in irrevocable ruin for whomsoever might dare trust the promises and honor of
- snowl 7y agoExact same comment as https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21209462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21209462 ?
- lewisjoe 7y agoThe market for end-to-end encrypted office suite is pretty immature. There're products like Tresorit[1] and GraphiteDocs[2], but they are more like text editors, than a full-featured word processor that newsrooms need. One good google docs alternative is Zoho Writer (https://zoho.com/writer https://zoho.com/writer). Zoho doesn't do funny business scanning content for Ads. You pay and you use the software, that's all (Source: I work @ Zoho). Even better, Zoho offers APIs to use just the editors, while allowing companies to retain their data within their own cloud - https://www.zoho.com/officeplatform/integrator/ https://www.zoho.com/officeplatform/integrator/ For full protection, even against legal government requests, we might have to look at self-hosted solutions, which are again not very mature to call themselves a viable Google Docs alternative. [1] https://tresorit.com https://tresorit.com [2] https://www.graphitedocs.com https://www.graphitedocs.com
- jasonvorhe 7y agoThis is pure advertising for a competing product. G-Suite doesn't do any scanning for advertising either.
- lewisjoe 7y agoThanks. Never knew this. But the fact something like this - https://www.zoho.com/officeplatform/integrator/ https://www.zoho.com/officeplatform/integrator/ exists is useful information. So I wouldn't rule it out as "pure advertising".
- zwaps 7y agoHow do you know this? Its Google, they scan all they can and apologize later Below some g apps user was locked out of a single document for alleged Tos violations. Clearly, some scanning is going on. If you upload important documents or data to Google, as a firm especially, you are out of your mind.
- fouric 7y agoThe biggest issue that I see here is journalists getting locked out of their accounts, on claim of violating the TOS, with no explanation given, and likely no human in the review process. If true, then this is bad enough that I would suggest that nobody ever use Gsuite ever again, not just journalists.
- m0zg 7y agoIt's not just Google you need to be worried about. Your data could easily be subject to a government surveillance request, which Google not only can't turn down, but can't even notify you if it's ongoing. Regular run off the mill Google employee (even one working on G Suite) can't see anything of course. But I have no doubt there is a small group of Google employees who can see whatever the hell Google wants to see. That said I don't quite get what the motivation would be, unless the reporting in question could be of material consequence to Google. I think US government is a far more worrisome attack vector.
- GrumpyNl 7y agoWhy are google employees snooping on my files in the firstplace?
- funkjunky 7y agoBecause you reached out to them for support and you want to make sure they're only looking at what they're supposed to
- alexcason 7y agoShameless plug for Filewatch (https://filewatch.net https://filewatch.net), a client-side web application I made which enables you to see who your Google Drive files and folders are shared with. Filewatch doesn't get any information about you or your files, no information about your files leaves your browser.
- rnai 7y agoHi Alex, I just tried your tool. Pretty nice. I think it would be helpful to add a filter: - only files with other users (Include any 'anyone with the link' files in the above) Thanks for sharing your tool on HN.
- adfm 7y agoKeep it simple. Use Markdown and encryption. Cryptomator.org works well across most platforms. Editorial staff can track track changes with CriticMarkup.