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The Chinese government's reaction to this seems extraordinarily strong to me. The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their ow

by pitt1980 7y ago

The Chinese government's reaction to this seems extraordinarily strong to me. The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. It seems like the reaction would cause a Streisand effect there. Isn't a backlash among the US population over this plainly foreseeable? That doesn't seem like its in their interests. Working off the assumption that the Chinese government is rational, why is its reaction here so strong? What other things are about to happen, that make this reaction make sense?

Donald 7y ago
> The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? Yes, by design. The Chinese government is signalling that the NBA is anti-China, just like they did with the iPhone (sales are down over 20% as a result of the government's marketing campaign and market pressure from Huawei.) Patriotic Chinese will get the message and stop watching the NBA.
KaoruAoiShiho 7y ago
It's more like the reverse. Tencent/CCTV is responding so that they don't get boycotted. The government probably desperately wants this to go away.
dirtyid 7y ago
Some possibilities, banning NBA could be low cost oblique trade war retaliation. Chinese going to stream for free anyways. Ramping up Chinese nationalism in response to HK forced the governments hand. This is why CPC tries to contain nationalism normally, it's hard to contain and limits maneuverability. Also CPC foreign propaganda organ is... very inept. NBA is very popular there might actually be backlash. Punishing western companies for questioning Chinese sovereignty issues as been consistently happening for years. The Chinese response has been completely consistent with past behaviors. They've always been extremely heavy handed on this issue. It's only an issue in the west due to Sino-US tensions being escalated into culture clash / war territory. Edit, to add on culture, in China, central government influence over companies is perceived as a sign of strength and not fragility. Which leads to naive hot takes here like the government is scared when the opposite is true. Yes, NBA has a huge market but not larger than Chinese sovereignty. Conceding on this point is an existential weakness.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
birdyrooster 7y ago
I am not particularly well versed on Sino-American politics but this seems like a provocation related to the escalating trade war with America. I get the impression from the events of recent weeks that shared commerce and culture are being divided. China seems to be taking its profits, while collecting and consolidating power it has achieved in past decades. It feels like they are getting ready to isolate themselves to a greater degree than ever.
- adventured 7y ago
  > It feels like they are getting ready to isolate themselves to a greater degree than ever. There was a split in the road, one went to Dengville, the other went to Xiville. Xi, as a requirement of his personal pursuit of absolute power, chose to aggressively pursue the authoritarian Xiville route. Everything Xi is doing is for self-glorification and not for the benefit of China (which is why he's adjusting presented history and inserting himself everywhere in prominence; if he were actually selflessly serving China's interests, he wouldn't do any of that). Every dictator couches their words and actions in the flag of the betterment of the nation, and it ultimately never is. Before he's done, he will largely wipe out what Deng (and the leaders that followed after) accomplished in modestly liberalizing China. As China's formerly fast, organic (low debt) growth naturally entirely ebbs away, Xi will have no choice but to begin accelerating cultural lock-down to control the restless population. That is already underway and has been for a few years. The social contract will be noticeably violated and the people will start to rebel. The CPC knows this and will try to stay out in front of it as much as possible.
tanilama 7y ago
> The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? That is a mistake. Many hyper-nationalists already called a broad ban on NBA, and so far even the fans need to claim they will give up their interests for their love of the country. And it is probably that way already. If no further response from NBA satisfying China's official account on this matter, the ban will extend into regular season and NO ONE will question it. It is grassroot nationalistic parade, the CCP is merely riding it, and even they need to do this carefully.
sgoraya 7y ago
> Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. NBA fan, who will NOT be renewing league pass, checking in. Morey is considered one of the top NBA GM's of one of the top teams (Rockets) that have a strong Sino-centric fan base because of former Rocket great, Yao Ming. Yao was the first Chinese superstar in the NBA. The Rockets are the 'adopted' team of China. > Isn't a backlash among the US population over this plainly foreseeable? I agree - I'm not paying for league pass this year. I did not like the response from the NBA.
- DeonPenny 7y ago
  I feel like people ignore this as if america don't like themselves and won't as a culture retaliate in a worse fashion
- baumy 7y ago
  Another longtime NBA fan here, just backing up what you're saying about Morey. Especially in regards to the NBA in China, he's a fairly significant figure, more so than the original comment implies. On a different note - I was in the same boat as you and actually wrote an email to the league pass support address (did not get a reply yet) telling them that I had been a customer for years and would not be renewing this year because of the NBA's spineless capitulation to an authoritarian regime. I'm still disappointed they didn't respond correctly more quickly, Adam Silver really needed to make a strong statement over the weekend, but the statements he made earlier this week were much, much better. Unfortunate that it likely only happened because they underestimated the $$$ hit from American customers being pissed, and I'm under no illusion that anything but the bottom line is the primary concern, but I'm curious what you didn't like about Silver's most recent press conference. He pretty unequivocally said that the NBA will not infringe the free speech of its employees and gave the classic "sorry you were offended" non-apology-apology. Part of me would have liked to see a stronger statement, but I'm also not sure it's the NBA's job to escalate an international relations issue, particularly when many of its players (including LeBron James, who has to be the most valuable asset the NBA currently has) were/are actually in China as this plays out. I'm holding out a small bit of hope that there will be a stronger statement once no more NBA employees are in China. I have a couple of friends working in NBA front offices and a few rumors have reached their ears that the NBA is afraid to react too much for fear of retaliation in the form of players getting detained and stopped from leaving China (just to be clear, I have zero proof of this, but it seems logical).
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
I think they are very, very afraid. I think they feel like one crack in the dam, and they could lose the whole country. Secure people (or nations) don't have to react like this.
- sebastianconcpt 7y ago
  Yes, they are way more fragile that they make themselves appear to be.
sharadov 7y ago
You think the Chinese care about "annnoying" their people. This is a totalitarian regime, which has ruthlessly run over its own people,there is no concept of individual rights, the populace is brainwashed into "nationalism" and that is all that matters. Country over self! Western thought with its ideas of human rights and free speech is alien to them.
- taobility 7y ago
  If the game players don't respect my culture, respect my nation, why would I watch their games?!
  - sharadov 7y ago
    How did they disrespect your culture?
    - taobility 7y ago
      Would you send your black people watermelon as gift?
      - sharadov 7y ago
        You are straight-up making racist comments here.
        taobility 7y ago
        Okay, I think you should understand something now. Why my comment/behavior are totally fine in other cultures but be racism and offensive here?
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. It's low-quality and repetitive, and invariably turns nasty, and those things make it off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
sebastianconcpt 7y ago
No communist regime is even remotely close to caring about pleasing anyone. Very much the opposite, they'll do literally anything to make you please them. They don't make sense nor try to. Then make power grabbing (and preserving).

Donald 7y ago

> The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? Yes, by design. The Chinese government is signalling that the NBA is anti-China, just like they did with the iPhone (sales are down over 20% as a result of the government's marketing campaign and market pressure from Huawei.) Patriotic Chinese will get the message and stop watching the NBA.

KaoruAoiShiho 7y ago

It's more like the reverse. Tencent/CCTV is responding so that they don't get boycotted. The government probably desperately wants this to go away.

dirtyid 7y ago

Some possibilities, banning NBA could be low cost oblique trade war retaliation. Chinese going to stream for free anyways. Ramping up Chinese nationalism in response to HK forced the governments hand. This is why CPC tries to contain nationalism normally, it's hard to contain and limits maneuverability. Also CPC foreign propaganda organ is... very inept. NBA is very popular there might actually be backlash. Punishing western companies for questioning Chinese sovereignty issues as been consistently happening for years. The Chinese response has been completely consistent with past behaviors. They've always been extremely heavy handed on this issue. It's only an issue in the west due to Sino-US tensions being escalated into culture clash / war territory. Edit, to add on culture, in China, central government influence over companies is perceived as a sign of strength and not fragility. Which leads to naive hot takes here like the government is scared when the opposite is true. Yes, NBA has a huge market but not larger than Chinese sovereignty. Conceding on this point is an existential weakness.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

birdyrooster 7y ago

I am not particularly well versed on Sino-American politics but this seems like a provocation related to the escalating trade war with America. I get the impression from the events of recent weeks that shared commerce and culture are being divided. China seems to be taking its profits, while collecting and consolidating power it has achieved in past decades. It feels like they are getting ready to isolate themselves to a greater degree than ever.

adventured 7y ago
> It feels like they are getting ready to isolate themselves to a greater degree than ever. There was a split in the road, one went to Dengville, the other went to Xiville. Xi, as a requirement of his personal pursuit of absolute power, chose to aggressively pursue the authoritarian Xiville route. Everything Xi is doing is for self-glorification and not for the benefit of China (which is why he's adjusting presented history and inserting himself everywhere in prominence; if he were actually selflessly serving China's interests, he wouldn't do any of that). Every dictator couches their words and actions in the flag of the betterment of the nation, and it ultimately never is. Before he's done, he will largely wipe out what Deng (and the leaders that followed after) accomplished in modestly liberalizing China. As China's formerly fast, organic (low debt) growth naturally entirely ebbs away, Xi will have no choice but to begin accelerating cultural lock-down to control the restless population. That is already underway and has been for a few years. The social contract will be noticeably violated and the people will start to rebel. The CPC knows this and will try to stay out in front of it as much as possible.

tanilama 7y ago

> The NBA is hugely popular there, don't they risk annoying huge chunks of their own population by taking it off the air? That is a mistake. Many hyper-nationalists already called a broad ban on NBA, and so far even the fans need to claim they will give up their interests for their love of the country. And it is probably that way already. If no further response from NBA satisfying China's official account on this matter, the ban will extend into regular season and NO ONE will question it. It is grassroot nationalistic parade, the CCP is merely riding it, and even they need to do this carefully.

sgoraya 7y ago

> Morey is not even an especially notable NBA figure, Twitter doesn't even work in China, it would have been easy to block news of this in China. NBA fan, who will NOT be renewing league pass, checking in. Morey is considered one of the top NBA GM's of one of the top teams (Rockets) that have a strong Sino-centric fan base because of former Rocket great, Yao Ming. Yao was the first Chinese superstar in the NBA. The Rockets are the 'adopted' team of China. > Isn't a backlash among the US population over this plainly foreseeable? I agree - I'm not paying for league pass this year. I did not like the response from the NBA.

DeonPenny 7y ago
I feel like people ignore this as if america don't like themselves and won't as a culture retaliate in a worse fashion
baumy 7y ago
Another longtime NBA fan here, just backing up what you're saying about Morey. Especially in regards to the NBA in China, he's a fairly significant figure, more so than the original comment implies. On a different note - I was in the same boat as you and actually wrote an email to the league pass support address (did not get a reply yet) telling them that I had been a customer for years and would not be renewing this year because of the NBA's spineless capitulation to an authoritarian regime. I'm still disappointed they didn't respond correctly more quickly, Adam Silver really needed to make a strong statement over the weekend, but the statements he made earlier this week were much, much better. Unfortunate that it likely only happened because they underestimated the $$$ hit from American customers being pissed, and I'm under no illusion that anything but the bottom line is the primary concern, but I'm curious what you didn't like about Silver's most recent press conference. He pretty unequivocally said that the NBA will not infringe the free speech of its employees and gave the classic "sorry you were offended" non-apology-apology. Part of me would have liked to see a stronger statement, but I'm also not sure it's the NBA's job to escalate an international relations issue, particularly when many of its players (including LeBron James, who has to be the most valuable asset the NBA currently has) were/are actually in China as this plays out. I'm holding out a small bit of hope that there will be a stronger statement once no more NBA employees are in China. I have a couple of friends working in NBA front offices and a few rumors have reached their ears that the NBA is afraid to react too much for fear of retaliation in the form of players getting detained and stopped from leaving China (just to be clear, I have zero proof of this, but it seems logical).

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

I think they are very, very afraid. I think they feel like one crack in the dam, and they could lose the whole country. Secure people (or nations) don't have to react like this.

sebastianconcpt 7y ago
Yes, they are way more fragile that they make themselves appear to be.

sharadov 7y ago

You think the Chinese care about "annnoying" their people. This is a totalitarian regime, which has ruthlessly run over its own people,there is no concept of individual rights, the populace is brainwashed into "nationalism" and that is all that matters. Country over self! Western thought with its ideas of human rights and free speech is alien to them.

taobility 7y ago
If the game players don't respect my culture, respect my nation, why would I watch their games?!
- sharadov 7y ago
  How did they disrespect your culture?
  - taobility 7y ago
    Would you send your black people watermelon as gift?
    - sharadov 7y ago
      You are straight-up making racist comments here.
      - taobility 7y ago
        Okay, I think you should understand something now. Why my comment/behavior are totally fine in other cultures but be racism and offensive here?
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. It's low-quality and repetitive, and invariably turns nasty, and those things make it off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sebastianconcpt 7y ago

No communist regime is even remotely close to caring about pleasing anyone. Very much the opposite, they'll do literally anything to make you please them. They don't make sense nor try to. Then make power grabbing (and preserving).