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I'll never understand how articles like this always talk about Uber and never about public transportation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrain_JFK#Ridership

I'll never understand how articles like this always talk about Uber and never about public transportation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrain_JFK#Ridership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTrain_JFK#Ridership >The AirTrain's ridership has risen each year since then. In 2017, there were 7,655,901 passengers who paid to travel between JFK Airport and either Howard Beach or Jamaica. This represents a 292% increase over 2004, the first full year of operation, when 2,623,791 riders paid. >An additional 12.6 million people are estimated to have ridden the AirTrain for free in 2017. When such an answer already exists, there is no reason to even ruminate on self driving cars.

choeger 7y ago
Self driving cars are a form of individual travel. An airport train is prescheduled and prerouted. The former beats the latter under specific circumstances only (or we would not have these two categories of transportation). I would argue that traveling from and to a large airport is about as disadvantageous as it gets for individual travel: Your schedule is determined by someone else. Your route is already fixed. The only benefit of individual that I can think of in that case is the possibility to travel to/from somewhat remote locations directly from/to the airport.
- icsllaf 7y ago
  >The former beats the latter under specific circumstances only. A large part of that circumstance being the nonexistance of the former and creation of our urban environments to specifically cater to the latter.
  - choeger 7y ago
    > A large part of that circumstance being the nonexistance of the former and creation of our urban environments to specifically cater to the latter. That's a nice talking points and might even apply to some (US) cities. But I live with an extensively (and expensively) built public transportation and still it loses vs. individual transport quite often.
idiot900 7y ago
The AirTrain is only eight miles long, cost $1.9 billion to build, and is relevant only to those going to or from JFK. Public transport, especially the AirTrain, is great but I think such advocacy would be well served by discussing the costs as well.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  I think it would only be fair to put the cost of constructing roads next to that number since those are mindblowingly high as well. The first result I saw was that a 6 lane highway costs about $7-11 million per mile and that doesn't count the cost of all the cars that use it where as the first stat would count the train. I also assume that steel tracks last a lot longer than road surface which has to be rebuilt every few years. Also the cost of carbon emissions is often ignored in car price stats.
  - pardavis 7y ago
    For reference, in the United States, the amount of money spent on road maintenance per state controlled mile looks something like this: * $2,700 in Alabama * $80,000 in Massachusetts * $84,000 in California * $208,000 in New Jersey https://reason.org/policy-study/23rd-annual-highway-report/maintenance-disbursements-per-mile/ https://reason.org/policy-study/23rd-annual-highway-report/m...
    - 55555 7y ago
      For context, making a new 2-lane road costs 2-5 million USD per mile. I didn't realize roads were so expensive.
      - jandrese 7y ago
        When land is expensive roads are expensive.
baroffoos 7y ago
It seems that to Americans, public transport is unthinkable and the mere suggestion that it could be a solution is met with shock and horror since the only public transport they have ever known is the American kind with useless timetables and primarily used as homeless housing.
- Ambele 7y ago
  The timetables could be deemphasized if you could see the public transportation moving live on a map. The homeless housing aspect could be reduced if a phone or app was required for the upscale public transport.
  - baroffoos 7y ago
    >reduced if a phone or app was required No thanks. I don't want government mandated spyware on my phone. Its shocking that your solution is to try and ban poor people from public transport rather than providing them a proper place to stay.

choeger 7y ago

Self driving cars are a form of individual travel. An airport train is prescheduled and prerouted. The former beats the latter under specific circumstances only (or we would not have these two categories of transportation). I would argue that traveling from and to a large airport is about as disadvantageous as it gets for individual travel: Your schedule is determined by someone else. Your route is already fixed. The only benefit of individual that I can think of in that case is the possibility to travel to/from somewhat remote locations directly from/to the airport.

icsllaf 7y ago
>The former beats the latter under specific circumstances only. A large part of that circumstance being the nonexistance of the former and creation of our urban environments to specifically cater to the latter.
- choeger 7y ago
  > A large part of that circumstance being the nonexistance of the former and creation of our urban environments to specifically cater to the latter. That's a nice talking points and might even apply to some (US) cities. But I live with an extensively (and expensively) built public transportation and still it loses vs. individual transport quite often.

idiot900 7y ago

The AirTrain is only eight miles long, cost $1.9 billion to build, and is relevant only to those going to or from JFK. Public transport, especially the AirTrain, is great but I think such advocacy would be well served by discussing the costs as well.

baroffoos 7y ago
I think it would only be fair to put the cost of constructing roads next to that number since those are mindblowingly high as well. The first result I saw was that a 6 lane highway costs about $7-11 million per mile and that doesn't count the cost of all the cars that use it where as the first stat would count the train. I also assume that steel tracks last a lot longer than road surface which has to be rebuilt every few years. Also the cost of carbon emissions is often ignored in car price stats.
- pardavis 7y ago
  For reference, in the United States, the amount of money spent on road maintenance per state controlled mile looks something like this: * $2,700 in Alabama * $80,000 in Massachusetts * $84,000 in California * $208,000 in New Jersey https://reason.org/policy-study/23rd-annual-highway-report/maintenance-disbursements-per-mile/ https://reason.org/policy-study/23rd-annual-highway-report/m...
  - 55555 7y ago
    For context, making a new 2-lane road costs 2-5 million USD per mile. I didn't realize roads were so expensive.
    - jandrese 7y ago
      When land is expensive roads are expensive.

baroffoos 7y ago

It seems that to Americans, public transport is unthinkable and the mere suggestion that it could be a solution is met with shock and horror since the only public transport they have ever known is the American kind with useless timetables and primarily used as homeless housing.

Ambele 7y ago
The timetables could be deemphasized if you could see the public transportation moving live on a map. The homeless housing aspect could be reduced if a phone or app was required for the upscale public transport.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  >reduced if a phone or app was required No thanks. I don't want government mandated spyware on my phone. Its shocking that your solution is to try and ban poor people from public transport rather than providing them a proper place to stay.