7 ms·

>Already-rich folks kowtowing to fascists for a quick buck is beyond pathetic. Most NBA team owners are already billionaires. I believe most of them are self-

by nugget 7y ago

>Already-rich folks kowtowing to fascists for a quick buck is beyond pathetic. Most NBA team owners are already billionaires. I believe most of them are self-made and have signed the giving pledge, meaning they will donate much of their wealth to charities at or before their death. If anyone can afford to take a stand, it would seem to be them.

tyre 7y ago
The owner of the Nets is an executive at Alibaba. He will follow the party line and has (calling Hong Kong protestors “separatists”, etc.) The jersey sponsor of the LA Lakers is Wish.com, a company doing drop shipping from China. LeBron James is sponsored by Nike (as are all of the jerseys) and Nike has significant interest in keeping the Chinese market open. LeBron is leading production of Space Jam 2. He won’t jeopardize international acclaim and box office revenue for this. This is the same for every other player. Sponsorship deals with apparel companies are a huge source of income. Few stars are untouchable and the ones who are wont risk other business interests.
- godot 7y ago
  I know that your point might be "there's too much to give up", but I believe OP's point is why can't these people give them up? Quick google search for NBA stars' pay: https://www.shmoop.com/careers/basketball-player/salary.html https://www.shmoop.com/careers/basketball-player/salary.html At the top you have folks with $30m in salary and $30m in endorsements. Even if they lose all endorsements (and they won't), there's still $30m in salary left. Average stars make $5m/year for 5 years. That's certainly enough money for a lifetime of pretty good living. These are the folks who can afford to take a stand, is what OP means. In contrast, if the average office worker takes a stand and loses their $60k/year job, life would be really difficult for them.
- paggle 7y ago
  As Michael Jordan didn't say... "Republicans buy sneakers too." Billionaires didn't get to be billionaires by leaving money on the table. We need large scale political action against China.
  - badrequest 7y ago
    We need to adopt an economic system that doesn't prize currency above human dignity.
    - dexterdog 7y ago
      So we should be like the Chinese and prize power over human dignity instead?
      - munificent 7y ago
        False dilemma much?
    - pixelpoet 7y ago
      Isn't that what communism/Marxism is supposed to be? "Each according to his ability to each according to his needs?"
      - dmix 7y ago
        "supposed to be" is the key part of the sentence.
  - FussyZeus 7y ago
    Billionaire's shouldn't exist. Name literally one benefit of having a billionaire in our society. Any one thing we wouldn't otherwise have.
    - Consultant32452 7y ago
      Tesla, SpaceX, and ending polio?
    - mruts 7y ago
      I csn’t think of one benefit of you existing either.
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  Disney owns ESPN, and also has had to deal with recent censorship of Winnie the Pooh in China (which is a different story altogether). I'm suspecting there are quite a number of other business dealings between China and those who sit on boards of American companies. That would create an enormous tangle of conflict of interest. China doesn't need a military to conquer, as these business relationships seem to be doing the job well enough.
- IanDrake 7y ago
  >calling Hong Kong protesters “separatists”, etc. Devil's advocate here...Are they not separatist? If not, shouldn't they be? It's hard to imagine your "country" working on a death clock. In 2047 it all ends. So, what is the point of fighting the good fight at this point? Why not face the inevitable and leave while you can? Or fight for a final independence now, while you can?
  - CharlesColeman 7y ago
    > So, what is the point of fighting the good fight at this point? Why not face the inevitable and leave while you can? Or fight for a final independence now, while you can? Because there's still 28 years to go, and a lot can happen in 28 years.
    - IanDrake 7y ago
      Thanks for hitting the heart of the matter. A lot can happen in that time. Given the direction of things, do you think it will be better? I guess I don't. When HK is supposed to hand itself over to China's rule in 2047, do you think there will be ANY international support for their independence? I don't. That would be directly against the deal that was struck. Wouldn't it be better to use China's interference as a pretext for independence, claiming it was China who has broken the bargain? American independence wasn't about a tea tax or a few soldiers defending themselves in Boston. It was about inevitability and using those events to propel it.
      - CharlesColeman 7y ago
        > When HK is supposed to hand itself over to China's rule in 2047 In 1982, pretty much everyone assumed the Soviet Union was still going to be around in 1992, but it wasn't. Who knows what China will look like in 2047. A lot can happen in 28 years.
  - roywiggins 7y ago
    > Devil's advocate here...Are they not separatist? If not, shouldn't they be? These are their demands (more or less): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Objectives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Object... Full-on separatism would give the PLA a more plausible reason to declare an insurrection and go full Tiananmen Square. Also, a lot of HKers who support the existing demands would not be on board with it.
- nilkn 7y ago
  The counterpoint is that LeBron James already makes over $35 million per year (not counting endorsements -- his net worth is in the hundreds of millions) and therefore is actually in an excellent position to take a stand against a dictatorship. After some threshold, ludicrously rich people aligning themselves with dictators just so they can become even more rich makes them just as bad and worthy of denigration.
  - cco 7y ago
    And provide a powerful lesson for the children in his sponsored school, there is more to life that money and standing up to bullies is the right thing to do even if you must have consequences.
- OJFord 7y ago
  > He will follow the party line and has (calling Hong Kong protestors “separatists”, etc.) Is 'Hong Kong separatist' any different to 'Ulster unionist' in acceptability to each side? It sounds like a neutral description to me.
  - godot 7y ago
    I don't know if it's neutral or not, but it's just factually incorrect. The five demands of the protestors (now six actually) do not include anything about separatism/independent state. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Objectives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Object...) The fact that someone as prominent as Joe Tsai made such a factually incorrect public statement is a bit bothersome; and seems to suggest that there's truth in that Chinese media really wants to portray the protests as separatists movements (which is not true) to its people. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Mainland_China_reactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_2019_Hong_Kon...) The thing is, Joe is right in the rest of his post -- everything about China's sensitivity to territories and separatists movements. It's that his categorization of Hong Kong's movement is wrong, which makes the whole argument invalid.
maximente 7y ago
"can afford to" doesn't overlap much with "is likely to". hell, the rockets ownership allegedly discussed removing "one of the best GMs in the league": https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/10/6/20901828/daryl-morey-hong-kong-china-houston-rockets-tweet-controversy https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/10/6/20901828/daryl-morey... and give me a break about the giving pledge. when people are dead, access to their money doesn't matter. if they want to earn some sort of altruistic "cred", they can donate 90% of their net worth, today, and still be in the 100 millionaire club. go ahead and let me know when any one of these people does that.
- throwaway13372 7y ago
  > "one of the best GMs in the league" I suppose China has no small part of the greatness. Maybe removing that part actually make him removable and far from "one of the greatest"?
pronco 7y ago
The part-owner of the Lakers tried to sell his major entertainment empire of American icons to the government of Qatar. He canceled the deal because the offer was too low. This is the same guy who has two former employees, one is a newer Supreme Court Justice that he allegedly spent $10 million in dark money helping and the other is a US Senator whose running for President. He also happens to own Coachella despite fighting legal weed and donating to anti-gay groups in the past.
mattacular 7y ago
NBA team owners are self-made billionaires ... in what universe is this again?
Gabriel_Martin 7y ago
> I believe most of them are self-made and have signed the giving pledge Why do you believe this? As far as I can tell Dan Gilbert is the only one I see on that list.

by nugget 7y ago

tyre 7y ago

The owner of the Nets is an executive at Alibaba. He will follow the party line and has (calling Hong Kong protestors “separatists”, etc.) The jersey sponsor of the LA Lakers is Wish.com, a company doing drop shipping from China. LeBron James is sponsored by Nike (as are all of the jerseys) and Nike has significant interest in keeping the Chinese market open. LeBron is leading production of Space Jam 2. He won’t jeopardize international acclaim and box office revenue for this. This is the same for every other player. Sponsorship deals with apparel companies are a huge source of income. Few stars are untouchable and the ones who are wont risk other business interests.

godot 7y ago
I know that your point might be "there's too much to give up", but I believe OP's point is why can't these people give them up? Quick google search for NBA stars' pay: https://www.shmoop.com/careers/basketball-player/salary.html https://www.shmoop.com/careers/basketball-player/salary.html At the top you have folks with $30m in salary and $30m in endorsements. Even if they lose all endorsements (and they won't), there's still $30m in salary left. Average stars make $5m/year for 5 years. That's certainly enough money for a lifetime of pretty good living. These are the folks who can afford to take a stand, is what OP means. In contrast, if the average office worker takes a stand and loses their $60k/year job, life would be really difficult for them.
paggle 7y ago
As Michael Jordan didn't say... "Republicans buy sneakers too." Billionaires didn't get to be billionaires by leaving money on the table. We need large scale political action against China.
- badrequest 7y ago
  We need to adopt an economic system that doesn't prize currency above human dignity.
  - dexterdog 7y ago
    So we should be like the Chinese and prize power over human dignity instead?
    - munificent 7y ago
      False dilemma much?
  - pixelpoet 7y ago
    Isn't that what communism/Marxism is supposed to be? "Each according to his ability to each according to his needs?"
    - dmix 7y ago
      "supposed to be" is the key part of the sentence.
- FussyZeus 7y ago
  Billionaire's shouldn't exist. Name literally one benefit of having a billionaire in our society. Any one thing we wouldn't otherwise have.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    Tesla, SpaceX, and ending polio?
  - mruts 7y ago
    I csn’t think of one benefit of you existing either.
Nuzzerino 7y ago
Disney owns ESPN, and also has had to deal with recent censorship of Winnie the Pooh in China (which is a different story altogether). I'm suspecting there are quite a number of other business dealings between China and those who sit on boards of American companies. That would create an enormous tangle of conflict of interest. China doesn't need a military to conquer, as these business relationships seem to be doing the job well enough.
IanDrake 7y ago
>calling Hong Kong protesters “separatists”, etc. Devil's advocate here...Are they not separatist? If not, shouldn't they be? It's hard to imagine your "country" working on a death clock. In 2047 it all ends. So, what is the point of fighting the good fight at this point? Why not face the inevitable and leave while you can? Or fight for a final independence now, while you can?
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > So, what is the point of fighting the good fight at this point? Why not face the inevitable and leave while you can? Or fight for a final independence now, while you can? Because there's still 28 years to go, and a lot can happen in 28 years.
  - IanDrake 7y ago
    Thanks for hitting the heart of the matter. A lot can happen in that time. Given the direction of things, do you think it will be better? I guess I don't. When HK is supposed to hand itself over to China's rule in 2047, do you think there will be ANY international support for their independence? I don't. That would be directly against the deal that was struck. Wouldn't it be better to use China's interference as a pretext for independence, claiming it was China who has broken the bargain? American independence wasn't about a tea tax or a few soldiers defending themselves in Boston. It was about inevitability and using those events to propel it.
    - CharlesColeman 7y ago
      > When HK is supposed to hand itself over to China's rule in 2047 In 1982, pretty much everyone assumed the Soviet Union was still going to be around in 1992, but it wasn't. Who knows what China will look like in 2047. A lot can happen in 28 years.
- roywiggins 7y ago
  > Devil's advocate here...Are they not separatist? If not, shouldn't they be? These are their demands (more or less): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Objectives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Object... Full-on separatism would give the PLA a more plausible reason to declare an insurrection and go full Tiananmen Square. Also, a lot of HKers who support the existing demands would not be on board with it.
nilkn 7y ago
The counterpoint is that LeBron James already makes over $35 million per year (not counting endorsements -- his net worth is in the hundreds of millions) and therefore is actually in an excellent position to take a stand against a dictatorship. After some threshold, ludicrously rich people aligning themselves with dictators just so they can become even more rich makes them just as bad and worthy of denigration.
- cco 7y ago
  And provide a powerful lesson for the children in his sponsored school, there is more to life that money and standing up to bullies is the right thing to do even if you must have consequences.
OJFord 7y ago
> He will follow the party line and has (calling Hong Kong protestors “separatists”, etc.) Is 'Hong Kong separatist' any different to 'Ulster unionist' in acceptability to each side? It sounds like a neutral description to me.
- godot 7y ago
  I don't know if it's neutral or not, but it's just factually incorrect. The five demands of the protestors (now six actually) do not include anything about separatism/independent state. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Objectives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Object...) The fact that someone as prominent as Joe Tsai made such a factually incorrect public statement is a bit bothersome; and seems to suggest that there's truth in that Chinese media really wants to portray the protests as separatists movements (which is not true) to its people. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_2019_Hong_Kong_protests#Mainland_China_reactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_2019_Hong_Kon...) The thing is, Joe is right in the rest of his post -- everything about China's sensitivity to territories and separatists movements. It's that his categorization of Hong Kong's movement is wrong, which makes the whole argument invalid.

maximente 7y ago

"can afford to" doesn't overlap much with "is likely to". hell, the rockets ownership allegedly discussed removing "one of the best GMs in the league": https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/10/6/20901828/daryl-morey-hong-kong-china-houston-rockets-tweet-controversy https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/10/6/20901828/daryl-morey... and give me a break about the giving pledge. when people are dead, access to their money doesn't matter. if they want to earn some sort of altruistic "cred", they can donate 90% of their net worth, today, and still be in the 100 millionaire club. go ahead and let me know when any one of these people does that.

throwaway13372 7y ago
> "one of the best GMs in the league" I suppose China has no small part of the greatness. Maybe removing that part actually make him removable and far from "one of the greatest"?

pronco 7y ago

The part-owner of the Lakers tried to sell his major entertainment empire of American icons to the government of Qatar. He canceled the deal because the offer was too low. This is the same guy who has two former employees, one is a newer Supreme Court Justice that he allegedly spent $10 million in dark money helping and the other is a US Senator whose running for President. He also happens to own Coachella despite fighting legal weed and donating to anti-gay groups in the past.

mattacular 7y ago

NBA team owners are self-made billionaires ... in what universe is this again?

Gabriel_Martin 7y ago

> I believe most of them are self-made and have signed the giving pledge Why do you believe this? As far as I can tell Dan Gilbert is the only one I see on that list.