6 ms·

Can you give me an example of something a non-white, non-middle class person can't say or do in public? Maybe it's my limited world-view, but I can't think of a

Can you give me an example of something a non-white, non-middle class person can't say or do in public? Maybe it's my limited world-view, but I can't think of anything specific.

dekhn 7y ago
Sure, if you (10 years ago) smoked a joint on the street, and you were black, you carried a far far higher risk of being imprisoned.
- Konnstann 7y ago
  Where's the parallel between doing something illegal (10 years ago) and being able to comment on the political climate without fearing for your life/livelihood?
  - cblades 7y ago
    The unequal application of the law based on race. Equal treatment under the law is just as much a fundamental right as freedom of expression is and, arguably, equal treatment prevents the subtle and slow erosion of other rights.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    The fact that African Americans are the most likely people by race to be stripped of their right to representation and political expression by a wide margin. To clarify - this is via them losing access to representation by being deemed a felon, and a lot more African Americans are sentenced with drug possession or intent to distribute than any other racial group proportionally.
- laheyBro 7y ago
  lol What an awful example.
notduncansmith 7y ago
Depending on where you are, simply leaving the house. Black people are more likely to be "randomly" stopped, more likely to be searched at a stop, and more likely to be arrested at a stop. Other statistics highlight similar issues faced by other minorities. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/black-people-more-likely-be-stopped-cops-study-finds-n616546 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/black-people-more...
- Konnstann 7y ago
  The article you linked draws more of a link between income levels and police violence than it does race. They explicitly say that the crime rates of low-income neighborhoods, populated by majority minority groups, are higher than that of more affluent neighborhoods. Furthermore most of the injuries happen when the person stopped has a gun, regardless of race. Not great, and certainly unacceptable, but not equivalent to not being able to "simply leave the house".
  - dekhn 7y ago
    if you want to deny the lived experience of african americans in the US, you're free to do so (it falls under free speech) but frankly I think making ivory tower-level statements like this ignores an extraordinary amount of evidence that african americans (and many non-caucasians) experience systemic racism that affects their economic opportunities and health.
    - laheyBro 7y ago
      Evidence points to the contrary. Equality of opportunity is a reality and has been for a long time. You cannot force equality of outcome.
    - Konnstann 7y ago
      I grew up in a majority non-white area, and am now subsequently living in another majority non-white area. I can count on one hand the number of beat cops I've seen in those cities. Seems to me if there's a higher crime rate, the amount of cops increases, and the likelihood you get stopped increases as well. On another note, when did Caucasian become a term for white people? As an actual Caucasian, having immigrated to the US from a region near Caucasus, I don't get why people use the term so loosely. The debate is about skin color, just use skin color.
asimpletune 7y ago
If you’re an African American male you have to be very careful how you express anger, however justified it may be. If you’re a female, it’s more difficult to be taken seriously or heard in meetings, and people constantly talk over you. If you’re basically anything that’s not white, people will embarrassingly coddle or patronize you, if they’re not prejudicing you. I never really thought about specific examples until I read this comment, but this is what came to mind.
- laheyBro 7y ago
  What a ridiculous statement. The US is the least oppressed society in history. Especially for women and minorities.
  - dekhn 7y ago
    there were laws through the 1960s and I think even later that prevents african americans and other non-caucasians from marrying caucasians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia required Supreme Court to override laws that violated the constitution. If that's your standard for "least oppressed", I think your standards are very low.
    - laheyBro 7y ago
      Believe it or not, a lot of things have changed since the 60's. Name a society with more rights, more opportunities for the historically oppressed. Deny reality all you want, you're only hurting yourself.
      - jessaustin 7y ago
        Canada? Anywhere in western/northern Europe?
  - mikestew 7y ago
    The US is the least oppressed society in history. What is ridiculous is to think that is an argument against the truth of parent's statement.
CocaKoala 7y ago
Exercise their second amendment rights? Note the differences in the stories of Philando Castile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile) and Brandon Vreeland (https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/men-who-walked-into-dearborn-police-station-armed-with-guns-tactical-vests-sentenced https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/men-who-walked-into-dear...).
- neetdeth 7y ago
  How about Erik Scott? [1] Or Daniel Shaver? [2] These are just two incidents that immediately spring to mind to counter your cherry picking. White people are not free from the danger of being shot by police. In fact, there is evidence [3] that white people may be more vulnerable than black people in any given scenario, because scrutiny on police use of force has been applied disproportionately in cases of black victims. 1. https://reason.com/2012/06/12/family-of-west-point-graduate-shot-to-de/ https://reason.com/2012/06/12/family-of-west-point-graduate-... 2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/08/graphic-video-shows-daniel-shaver-sobbing-and-begging-officer-for-his-life-before-2016-shooting/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/0... 3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27/this-study-found-race-matters-in-police-shootings-but-the-results-may-surprise-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27...
kick 7y ago
Picking up trash on your own lawn (the officer involved in this faced no penalty and is currently getting paid in full until 2020 because he resigned). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjkmsKr6sM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjkmsKr6sM
RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
As a minority male, I can pretty much say and do anything on public that a white person can say and do. In addition, I am not viewed by a certain portion of the population as a oppressor based on my skin color. If anything, sometimes I feel sorry for my white friends and am happy for my minority privilege of not being held responsible for things my ancestors did long before I was born.
mikestew 7y ago
As a white man with upper-middle class money to afford good lawyers, I can tell a cop to piss off when they're out of line and suffer fewer repercussions than others. I might go to jail for the evening (no biggie, I've traveled that road), but come Monday morning me and Ms. Pit Bull Lawyer, Esq. go smooth it over with the judge. If it even gets that far...'cuz, you know, I'm white. This could all be in my head, but based on reporting and anecdotes from friends, I firmly believe that if a cop's being a dick and I call him/her on it, the cuffs will go on much more slowly than if I were another color or lived in a different neighborhood.
- Konnstann 7y ago
  Anybody with good enough lawyers can tell a cop to piss off, you might even get the cop on a hate crime if you're non-white. I've got the same amount of anecdotes to suggest the opposite. My dad got pulled over because he didn't stop at a stop sign for the mandatory 3-mississippi in our neighborhood, and no lack of melanin in his skin would have been enough to prevent the ticket.
  - andrepd 7y ago
    Yes, watching the news these past few years we can totally see that cops get convicted for "hate crime" every single day. They shoot innocent, unarmed men to death as a matter of course, and get off with a few months' suspension, but somehow you think you can charge a cop for a "hate crime" for getting pulled over (conveniently concluding then that it's the black folk who are "privileged").
    - Konnstann 7y ago
      No my point was that wealth supersedes race in police interactions. Look at the Jussie Smollett case, you can definitely stir up some anti-police sentiment if you're rich enough. The conclusion isn't that black folk are privileged, it's that if you are well-off and look the part, race will play a much lower role when you get pulled over.
      - 7y ago

Can you give me an example of something a non-white, non-middle class person can't say or do in public? Maybe it's my limited world-view, but I can't think of anything specific.

dekhn 7y ago

Sure, if you (10 years ago) smoked a joint on the street, and you were black, you carried a far far higher risk of being imprisoned.

Konnstann 7y ago
Where's the parallel between doing something illegal (10 years ago) and being able to comment on the political climate without fearing for your life/livelihood?
- cblades 7y ago
  The unequal application of the law based on race. Equal treatment under the law is just as much a fundamental right as freedom of expression is and, arguably, equal treatment prevents the subtle and slow erosion of other rights.
- munk-a 7y ago
  The fact that African Americans are the most likely people by race to be stripped of their right to representation and political expression by a wide margin. To clarify - this is via them losing access to representation by being deemed a felon, and a lot more African Americans are sentenced with drug possession or intent to distribute than any other racial group proportionally.
laheyBro 7y ago
lol What an awful example.

notduncansmith 7y ago

Depending on where you are, simply leaving the house. Black people are more likely to be "randomly" stopped, more likely to be searched at a stop, and more likely to be arrested at a stop. Other statistics highlight similar issues faced by other minorities. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/black-people-more-likely-be-stopped-cops-study-finds-n616546 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/black-people-more...

Konnstann 7y ago
The article you linked draws more of a link between income levels and police violence than it does race. They explicitly say that the crime rates of low-income neighborhoods, populated by majority minority groups, are higher than that of more affluent neighborhoods. Furthermore most of the injuries happen when the person stopped has a gun, regardless of race. Not great, and certainly unacceptable, but not equivalent to not being able to "simply leave the house".
- dekhn 7y ago
  if you want to deny the lived experience of african americans in the US, you're free to do so (it falls under free speech) but frankly I think making ivory tower-level statements like this ignores an extraordinary amount of evidence that african americans (and many non-caucasians) experience systemic racism that affects their economic opportunities and health.
  - laheyBro 7y ago
    Evidence points to the contrary. Equality of opportunity is a reality and has been for a long time. You cannot force equality of outcome.
  - Konnstann 7y ago
    I grew up in a majority non-white area, and am now subsequently living in another majority non-white area. I can count on one hand the number of beat cops I've seen in those cities. Seems to me if there's a higher crime rate, the amount of cops increases, and the likelihood you get stopped increases as well. On another note, when did Caucasian become a term for white people? As an actual Caucasian, having immigrated to the US from a region near Caucasus, I don't get why people use the term so loosely. The debate is about skin color, just use skin color.

asimpletune 7y ago

If you’re an African American male you have to be very careful how you express anger, however justified it may be. If you’re a female, it’s more difficult to be taken seriously or heard in meetings, and people constantly talk over you. If you’re basically anything that’s not white, people will embarrassingly coddle or patronize you, if they’re not prejudicing you. I never really thought about specific examples until I read this comment, but this is what came to mind.

laheyBro 7y ago
What a ridiculous statement. The US is the least oppressed society in history. Especially for women and minorities.
- dekhn 7y ago
  there were laws through the 1960s and I think even later that prevents african americans and other non-caucasians from marrying caucasians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia required Supreme Court to override laws that violated the constitution. If that's your standard for "least oppressed", I think your standards are very low.
  - laheyBro 7y ago
    Believe it or not, a lot of things have changed since the 60's. Name a society with more rights, more opportunities for the historically oppressed. Deny reality all you want, you're only hurting yourself.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Canada? Anywhere in western/northern Europe?
- mikestew 7y ago
  The US is the least oppressed society in history. What is ridiculous is to think that is an argument against the truth of parent's statement.

CocaKoala 7y ago

Exercise their second amendment rights? Note the differences in the stories of Philando Castile (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile) and Brandon Vreeland (https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/men-who-walked-into-dearborn-police-station-armed-with-guns-tactical-vests-sentenced https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/men-who-walked-into-dear...).

neetdeth 7y ago
How about Erik Scott? [1] Or Daniel Shaver? [2] These are just two incidents that immediately spring to mind to counter your cherry picking. White people are not free from the danger of being shot by police. In fact, there is evidence [3] that white people may be more vulnerable than black people in any given scenario, because scrutiny on police use of force has been applied disproportionately in cases of black victims. 1. https://reason.com/2012/06/12/family-of-west-point-graduate-shot-to-de/ https://reason.com/2012/06/12/family-of-west-point-graduate-... 2. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/08/graphic-video-shows-daniel-shaver-sobbing-and-begging-officer-for-his-life-before-2016-shooting/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/0... 3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27/this-study-found-race-matters-in-police-shootings-but-the-results-may-surprise-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27...

kick 7y ago

Picking up trash on your own lawn (the officer involved in this faced no penalty and is currently getting paid in full until 2020 because he resigned). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjkmsKr6sM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzjkmsKr6sM

RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago

As a minority male, I can pretty much say and do anything on public that a white person can say and do. In addition, I am not viewed by a certain portion of the population as a oppressor based on my skin color. If anything, sometimes I feel sorry for my white friends and am happy for my minority privilege of not being held responsible for things my ancestors did long before I was born.

mikestew 7y ago

As a white man with upper-middle class money to afford good lawyers, I can tell a cop to piss off when they're out of line and suffer fewer repercussions than others. I might go to jail for the evening (no biggie, I've traveled that road), but come Monday morning me and Ms. Pit Bull Lawyer, Esq. go smooth it over with the judge. If it even gets that far...'cuz, you know, I'm white. This could all be in my head, but based on reporting and anecdotes from friends, I firmly believe that if a cop's being a dick and I call him/her on it, the cuffs will go on much more slowly than if I were another color or lived in a different neighborhood.

Konnstann 7y ago
Anybody with good enough lawyers can tell a cop to piss off, you might even get the cop on a hate crime if you're non-white. I've got the same amount of anecdotes to suggest the opposite. My dad got pulled over because he didn't stop at a stop sign for the mandatory 3-mississippi in our neighborhood, and no lack of melanin in his skin would have been enough to prevent the ticket.
- andrepd 7y ago
  Yes, watching the news these past few years we can totally see that cops get convicted for "hate crime" every single day. They shoot innocent, unarmed men to death as a matter of course, and get off with a few months' suspension, but somehow you think you can charge a cop for a "hate crime" for getting pulled over (conveniently concluding then that it's the black folk who are "privileged").
  - Konnstann 7y ago
    No my point was that wealth supersedes race in police interactions. Look at the Jussie Smollett case, you can definitely stir up some anti-police sentiment if you're rich enough. The conclusion isn't that black folk are privileged, it's that if you are well-off and look the part, race will play a much lower role when you get pulled over.
    - 7y ago