6 ms·

While I agree they’re spot on, it’s not like this is a new issue.

by bdibs 7y ago

zygimantasdev 7y ago
I guess what I meant - I looked at these issues differently, others probably too. Apple, Google "selling out" to be in China? Oh well - that seems reasonable since its a big market. South Park put it into different perspective. I guess that is what art does
- helpPeople 7y ago
  Google sold out to China how?
  - ViViDboarder 7y ago
    Censored search engine. Project Dragonfly.
    - fesoliveira 7y ago
      As far as I know, they pulled the cord on that one
kkarakk 7y ago
China has been leveraging their power "quietly" for some time now. Anything anti-China gets buried or discredited or shouted down using whataboutisms. Even here on hackernews you'll see tons of posts on negative chinese news from month old accounts fuzzing the narrative saying some variation of "it's not easy to understand if you're not chinese etc etc" The hong kong issue is just bringing the issue into the mainstream
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > Anything anti-China gets buried or discredited or shouted down using whataboutisms. Interesting. The only time I see whataboutism and China/Russia brought up in the same HN thread is when somebody tries to defend China/Russia by pointing out similar problems in the West, and that person gets shouted down and accused of engaging in "whataboutism".
  - Eldt 7y ago
    Sounds like you're describing the same thing. I've seen many comments defend China and try to turn attention towards actions done by the US.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      I initially read kkarakk's comment as a reverse of what I wrote, but even if we're talking the same, I personally believe that any and all accusations of whataboutism are just thought-terminating cliches and are invalid from the start.
    - yters 7y ago
      What US actions are equivalent to China? If you were in China could you make the same argument regarding Chinese actions?
  - esailija 7y ago
    It's not to defend China/Russia but to prove that the accuser is not interested in the problem itself but only in weaponizing the problem against those countries. Defense is not necessary or actually even possible since the claims are always made without any evidence.
  - ViViDboarder 7y ago
    Exactly. Someone responding to something shitty one person does by pointing out something someone else did is attempting to “shout down” the original comment with whataboutisms.
- jplayer01 7y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted. I've wasted too much time on HN arguing with people who simply don't believe China isn't as bad as portrayed, and believe everything that comes up here or on other sites is nothing but anti-Chinese propaganda. There are plenty of people who are so jaded that they're unwilling to condemn China for all the immoral things they do, much less economic or political behaviours that aren't overtly immoral, but do have clear negative impact on the Western sphere of influence and economic status. As bad as the US is, I don't want a country run by such an authoritarian, ruthless government like the CCP to take over the position as the world's superpower.
  - boomboomsubban 7y ago
    >but do have clear negative impact on the Western sphere of influence and economic status. And this is such a problem that you think the US should take actions to try and overthrow their government? Even considering how terribly most US regime changes damage a country, and the horrible civil wars that have accompanied the previous Chinese collapses? >As bad as the US is, I don't want a country run by such an authoritarian, ruthless government like the CCP to take over the position as the world's superpower I'm not thrilled at the prospect of a Chinese super power either. However, I also view the US as a rather terrible superpower, and unlike in China I have some amount of agency to change that.
    - yters 7y ago
      You don't think there is any moral difference between the two?
      - boomboomsubban 7y ago
        No matter what difference you see between them now, trying to topple their government would make the US far more immoral.
        yters 7y ago
        Sure it depends on what manner, but what is wrong with a regime change? I am sure there are plenty of Falun Gong, Muslims and Christians who would not mind a freer government. I think only US business would mind because they would not have such easy access to cheap labor and electrical and human parts.
nfRfqX5n 7y ago
true. blizzard has even done this with world of warcraft back in the day. to launch it in china they had to remove all skeleton models
- walshemj 7y ago
  Which is quite frankly bizarre has there ever been a rational argument put forward as to why skeleton are so tabu. This would be like the USA demanding all mentions and images of Jiangshi - The hopping zombie/vampire undead where removed.

While I agree they’re spot on, it’s not like this is a new issue.

by bdibs 7y ago

While I agree they’re spot on, it’s not like this is a new issue.

I guess what I meant - I looked at these issues differently, others probably too. Apple, Google "selling out" to be in China? Oh well - that seems reasonable since its a big market. South Park put it into different perspective. I guess that is what art does

helpPeople 7y ago
Google sold out to China how?
- ViViDboarder 7y ago
  Censored search engine. Project Dragonfly.
  - fesoliveira 7y ago
    As far as I know, they pulled the cord on that one

kkarakk 7y ago

China has been leveraging their power "quietly" for some time now. Anything anti-China gets buried or discredited or shouted down using whataboutisms. Even here on hackernews you'll see tons of posts on negative chinese news from month old accounts fuzzing the narrative saying some variation of "it's not easy to understand if you're not chinese etc etc" The hong kong issue is just bringing the issue into the mainstream

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> Anything anti-China gets buried or discredited or shouted down using whataboutisms. Interesting. The only time I see whataboutism and China/Russia brought up in the same HN thread is when somebody tries to defend China/Russia by pointing out similar problems in the West, and that person gets shouted down and accused of engaging in "whataboutism".
- Eldt 7y ago
  Sounds like you're describing the same thing. I've seen many comments defend China and try to turn attention towards actions done by the US.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    I initially read kkarakk's comment as a reverse of what I wrote, but even if we're talking the same, I personally believe that any and all accusations of whataboutism are just thought-terminating cliches and are invalid from the start.
  - yters 7y ago
    What US actions are equivalent to China? If you were in China could you make the same argument regarding Chinese actions?
- esailija 7y ago
  It's not to defend China/Russia but to prove that the accuser is not interested in the problem itself but only in weaponizing the problem against those countries. Defense is not necessary or actually even possible since the claims are always made without any evidence.
- ViViDboarder 7y ago
  Exactly. Someone responding to something shitty one person does by pointing out something someone else did is attempting to “shout down” the original comment with whataboutisms.
jplayer01 7y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. I've wasted too much time on HN arguing with people who simply don't believe China isn't as bad as portrayed, and believe everything that comes up here or on other sites is nothing but anti-Chinese propaganda. There are plenty of people who are so jaded that they're unwilling to condemn China for all the immoral things they do, much less economic or political behaviours that aren't overtly immoral, but do have clear negative impact on the Western sphere of influence and economic status. As bad as the US is, I don't want a country run by such an authoritarian, ruthless government like the CCP to take over the position as the world's superpower.
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  >but do have clear negative impact on the Western sphere of influence and economic status. And this is such a problem that you think the US should take actions to try and overthrow their government? Even considering how terribly most US regime changes damage a country, and the horrible civil wars that have accompanied the previous Chinese collapses? >As bad as the US is, I don't want a country run by such an authoritarian, ruthless government like the CCP to take over the position as the world's superpower I'm not thrilled at the prospect of a Chinese super power either. However, I also view the US as a rather terrible superpower, and unlike in China I have some amount of agency to change that.
  - yters 7y ago
    You don't think there is any moral difference between the two?
    - boomboomsubban 7y ago
      No matter what difference you see between them now, trying to topple their government would make the US far more immoral.
      - yters 7y ago
        Sure it depends on what manner, but what is wrong with a regime change? I am sure there are plenty of Falun Gong, Muslims and Christians who would not mind a freer government. I think only US business would mind because they would not have such easy access to cheap labor and electrical and human parts.

nfRfqX5n 7y ago

true. blizzard has even done this with world of warcraft back in the day. to launch it in china they had to remove all skeleton models

walshemj 7y ago
Which is quite frankly bizarre has there ever been a rational argument put forward as to why skeleton are so tabu. This would be like the USA demanding all mentions and images of Jiangshi - The hopping zombie/vampire undead where removed.